cheap hardware in new homes

[Cybrvanr]

I was quite apalled when I visited a friend's house tonight that he had moved into last spring. The house was quite fancy...about 3000 square feet, and they paid about 350,000 which is rather expensive for this area. The reason why I was bothered about this house however was simply the cheap fixtures throughout the house.

Doorknobs were just brass plated, and the finish was already starting to come off.

Interior doors themselves were just hollow veneer.

Instead of cast iron railings on the porches, there were these cheap plastic things that felt like if one put weight on them, they'd collapse.

Faucets throughout the house were made out of plastic, and then painted with some sort of chrome paint to look like real metal

Kitchen cabinets were made out of veneer particleboard, and were no better than flat-pack furniture at wal-mart

cheap vinyl floor in entryways, kitchen, baths, etc that were already showing traffic patterns.

Carpet laid directly on the sub-floor, and no hardwood floor beneath.

A single heat pump to climate control both floors (a house of this size needs 2 zones)

Fireplace did not have brick chimney, just a sheetmetal flue pipe.

Is this the way all new homes are built? I guess I'm used to living in older homes, but I hardly paid a third of what he did for that house, and got fixtures and hardware much more worthy of the job. Of course, my house is almost 60 years old, but even then, it was considered a small, inexpensive house when it was built, yet the builders cared enough to use decent materials. I hardly see the materials in this house lasting for even 10-15 years before significant wear will occur and renovations will be needed. Seems like such a waste of money (although I didn't tell him that, he seemed quite proud of the place!)

 

[toggleswitch]

Builder's-grade is a euphemism for cheap-sh--.

 

[exploder321]

Building a House is a joke

Ok... I have a new house (more or less) we bought a 1965 Rental House that was a dump. I added 1000 sq feet on back, and a 250 sq sun porch, for a total of 1700 sq feet....We basicly gutted the house from stem to stern so i count that as a new house

Now mind you, i picked most everything out.. But the builders choices left much to be desired... To get anything worth two shits you have to actuall go out and pick it out...

Take my light fixtures: I left this for the most part up to the builders.. Now i have very dinky ugly bright brass light fixtures.. The switch plates and switches don't match, there is a pleathera of door knobs missing, which btw where supposed to be antique brass and they aren't what i picked out.. I have hardwood throught, although the new stuff is already having wear issues...
My heating system is what kills me.. I couldn't get up in the attic to look, but i specificly told the builders i wanted a Trane or American Standard system in my house.. Insted they put this cheap ass Colemen Evcon thing in.. It doesn't work right, keeps half the friggin house cold and the other half bbq'd.. Plus they didn't even put a decent filtering system in, some crappy thing you half to change monthly.. And it's very loud...
Plus they never came back to finish...
Oh and one bath trub has big chunks out of it, the fixtures for it where never put in right and they too are crappy plastic chromed things..The medicne chest mirror is just glued on..
They wreked on bathroom cabinet and broke my beautiful 1940's pedesdtal sink i hunted high and low for..
I planned on re-using the oven that was here, but it too was destroyed..
They took it upon them selves to leave a nice hole in my roof and not remove the chimmny as i had asked.. Now i have to have a wall redone in my kitchen
There is still no light over my sink, nor is the drywell even finished...
Who ever put my counter tops in did a sorry lousy job, it shows every seem and they arent secured very well
The cabinets aren't level
There are huge gashes in my linoluem (vinal) floor in the kitchen
There has been a plethora of electrical issues throughout
The plumbing still isnt 100% correct and my kitchen sink wiggles
The deck isnt finished
This is just half of my list
Mark my words, I will never ever every build another house..
I wish i would've bought the 2200 Moduler home i looked at.. I would've been happier than this crap

Not to mention the builders/contractors smoking weed in the house one night and driking to boot..

I don't mind a scantly clad worker esp. when its hot, but some of these guy need to figure out how to dress a tad better (you could see everything)

Fortunatly,
I made enough from the sale of my grams and gramps old home and my insurance settlement to pay cash for this mess pile..SO they haven't seen the last check yet... Its been 4 mths and no one ahs shown up to fix the wrongs... I guess they don't miss the $35,000 there owed

 

[petek]

Sounds like our last house. We bought it brand new and finished so we didn't get a chance to upgrade. The cheapest of doorknobs and locksets and yes the brass paint was peeling off within months (Weiser stuff I think, their cheapo line). The GE dishwasher was awful, on/off and air dry was about it, noisy, poor washing. That went out the door right quick. The lino in the kitchen/nook and bathrooms was like you say of the poorest quality as was the wall to wall carpeting but it did have underpadding. The light fixtures were also bargain basement as were the switches and switch plate covers. The kitchen faucet was middling Moen, single lever with built in soap dispenser. Structurally the house wasn't bad, good roof, good siding, pretty good drywalling job etc. It's just that the fixtures were like a pimple on the Mona Lisa. I've been thru plenty of new show homes and this is commonplace up to certain price levels, especially on spec houses. Now this house we bought, built in the 50's, certainly stuff has been replaced/renewed but the house itself just feels solid.

 

[washerboy]

in defense

I bought a 1924 Craftsman 5 years ago..it was a dump..I did'nt gut it but it took tons of elbow grease and paint to get her back into shape. Built like a brick shit house (as my dad say's) I ran out of money towards the end..so replacing the heat (floor furnace and window unit) and air has been on the back burner. The only time I long for plastic fixtures and hollow doors is in the winter. It's sooo cold in an old house!!! I went over to a frinds house last night for dinner...his was built in 84...you know...butcher block counter tops, mavue (pink..not sure if I'm spelling that correctly..LOL!!) carpet...but it's soo nice and warm..he has a fireplace insert...I baked myself in front of it.

 

[wishwash]

Poor Workmanship

We bought our house about 23 years ago. After the sale, we slowly discovered how lousy the workmanship was! We were young and silly regarding such a serious purchase, I guess. The doors were thin and hollow. The jacuzzi was wired with wiring used in the kitchen oven and most of the electrical outlets were not grounded. The plumbing was terrible, plastic and such, as well as poorly installed windows and foor frames. The kitchen was a prime example of what not to have in one's kitchen. Uneven cabinets, thin, cheap wood look-alikes, etc. The subflooring was not up to builders'code. The house was only a year old when we bought it and didn't know that it had been a spec house that had been hastily constructed. It really sucked! In the 23 years since, we have spent enough money remodeling to buy a new house! No wonder the people who sold it to us left town. It sounds like the new ones have their problems too.

 

[exploder321]

News Flash:

My stupid water heater broke tonight..What next?

 

[oxydolfan1]

I am witnessing this first-hand when looking at newly-constructed "Fedders houses" in Brooklyn....

I'm especially concerned about the quality of fittings on railings, extension pipes, even weak installations and basics like masonry...

 

[oxydolfan1]

What next?

There are affordable A.O. Smith heaters that are good...also, you can consider Kenmore at Sears for something even more inexpensive (the models vary re: durability, though)....

 

[veg-o-matic]

Going both ways

I bought my place in 2003 and it was built in 1999. I'm not sure if the builder made all the decisions or whether the first owner had any input, but someone somewhere along the line was apparently schizophrenic.

The washer was a (if you'll pardon the oxymoron) TOL GE. The matching dryer was definitely BOL--didn't even have a buzzer to tell you when the clothes were dry!

Dishwasher and disposer were both crappy GEs, the range was one of the higher-end models. Kitchen cabinets are 42" and solid oak. The range hood is a 20-dollar model.

Ceramic tile in bathrooms and foyer were well done and high-quality. WW carpeting already looks like it needs to be replaced. First owner ripped up a lot of carpet and had hardwood put down.

Toilets were crappyass models, but the vanities are TOL. The light fixtures in the bathrooms had to have cost 10 bucks, tops.

I'm not sure if the hanging fixtures in the den, foyer, and dining room are high-quality or not. All I know is I don't care for 'em.

Can't remember the brand of water heater, but the inspector said it's one of the three brands he likes to see in a house.

veg

 

[toggleswitch]

Gurl, everyone is entitled to my opinion. LOL

My stupid water heater broke tonight..What next?

IMHO all storage type water heaters are pretty much the same. And are sourced form jsut a few mannies. Check the duration of the warranty which basically is parallel to how good and how many rust-protection anodes there are. (Are they magnesium? I forget) Little bits of the sacrificial anode chemically rush to the point where the glass lining has worn away from the metal base and fuses the hole shut. [don't ANYONE go there! LOL]

If it is gas-fired:

40 gallon = 40,000B Btu/h
50 gallon = 50,000 Btu/h
65 gallon = 65,000 Btu/h

Where 1 gallon = 4+/- litres)

"Better" ones offer MORE heat for the size, lower-end ones offer less heat for the size.

"Self-cleaning" is a joke. (Don't pay much extra for it) Just drain a bit of water off the bottom once a month.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what BTUs (British Thermal Units) that would be in Metric Speak. Kilowatts, Calores or Joules.

 

[toggleswitch]

BOCK hot water heaters. Heard these are good. Never saw or had one, though.

Check out the "special" flue baffles!

Be careful to avoid electrically-controlled gas if you currently have a gas-only model. You may want hot water during a power-failure!

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/technical/faqs.html

 

[hydralique]

Building Costs . . .

The truth of the matter here is that construction is expensive, and you can’t expect high quality fittings unless you budget for them. Costs have increased greatly over the past 10 years, especially for steel, concrete, and electrical wiring. Furthermore, you can’t rely on most builders to match your taste or design sensitivities when it comes to choosing hardware and fittings because it isn’t their area of expertise. If you are building or remodeling and don’t hire a good designer or architect, then you should take the time to choose these items yourself.

I have worked as an architect for a number of years in the residential market. I’m currently doing a major remodel on what was an1800 sq. ft. single story house. We demolished about 800 sq. ft., leaving 1000 sq. ft, and are building about 1800 entirely new square feet. The existing space is being completely renovated, and the finished house will have two new baths, one new powder room, new kitchen cabinets, all new flooring and interior wall finishes. Outside it is stucco with a tile roof, both of which will be about 60% new. The construction costs , not including fees and permits, will be a little over $400,000. Quality is good, but not fancy, with wood windows and floors and stone countertops and a two-zone A/C system. The owner in this case has been very involved in sticking to his budget, and the fact that it is a simple house on a flat lot helped greatly. I’ve got another project on a hillside lot. It is a three story, 3800 sq. ft. house, and the foundation concrete work alone (including the pool) is over $300,000. It has a lot of steel and concrete in it, and the cost of those materials really hurts.

The upshot of all this is that building for less than $200 sq. ft. is hard, and you have to be careful where you allocate the money. The good part of new construction is that it is almost always much stronger than the old stuff. I’ve seen plenty of old roofs with 2 x 4 rafters at 24 inches on center, or foundation walls with almost no steel in the concrete. Modern building codes won’t let this happen now, but of course it increases costs. New houses are also a lot more energy efficient, which saves some gas and electricity so you can run those fabulous old washers and dryers . . .

 

[dalangdon]

My mom's house was built in 1948, at the very end of the war restrictions. Yet it has plaster walls, gorgeous hardwood floors (which she INSISTS on covering with carpet) romex wiring, copper plumbing, and two steel beams running across the basement so that the place is rock solid.

The addition they put in in the 70's (basement garage, master bedroom, bath, and sitting room above the garage) by comparison had a crappy cement job in the garage, an inadequately sized drainage system (during heavy storms, the rain water backs up into the basement and goes down the much more reasonably sized floor drain), plywood floors, sheetrock walls, and popcorn ceilings in the bedroom/sitting room area.

True, my Dad was a little stingy (he was also staring down the barrel of putting my sister through college) but I really feel like they got ripped off, compared to the rest of the house.

 

[retroguy]

I live in what is basically an 80's cookie cutter subdiv

When I bought the house, I was pleased to find that the bathroom tilework was original, and in flawless condition. (after all retro *is* my middle name!)All the faucets, doorknobs, etc, same story. The original owner was very good at keeping it up, however, so everything was in good shape. Seems to me as if construction quality simply depends on who is doing the constructing. I looked at homes of the same era as my house, to find shoddy workmanship still as it was originally, with lots of wear, obviously. I've also seen new homes with both cheap fittings, and what looked like high quality. I guess it's the same as anything else. You get what you pay for. a 30 year old home I looked at before I bought mine, in a subdivision built by Ryan Homes, a major homebuilder in this area, was one of the cheapies. It looked decent, on the surface, for it's age, but on our way out, my agent grabbed the bannister as we were walking down the stairs; the railing came off in his hand. Looks like it had been attached 30 years ago with nothing more than liquid nails. I'm suprised it held that long. We got a laugh out of it, and I didn't buy the house.

 

[hoover1060]

1972 California Contemporary

Is how I'd describe my house, built by Pulte.

I still have the original closet doors(metal bi-fold) and all the doorknobs and such. Seem like decent quality.
My kitchen cabinets and counters are original, cabinets have been painted off-white, counters in very good shape. The kitchen appliances were all Kenmore, the original Tappan stuff from the builder was long gone.
Bathrooms still have original vanities and cabinets, as well as the upstairs tub and shower. All good.
What irks me is the way the house has settled, there is not a right angle anyplace in my LR/DR between the floor and walls.
The floor boards also squeak lots, like maybe they are not even nailed down.
Some days I think my place was built during a weekend bender!

 

[hydralique]

hoover,

Your problem may be caused not by the original workmanship but soil conditions . . . more than likely the house has settled due to poor soil compaction during the grading of the lot. Part of the house may be on firm original soil and part on the poorly compacted fill. This is the sort of thing that building codes are much stricter about today.

If it keeps settling then you might need to eventually have part of the foundation underpinned . . . this requires digging down next to the house and essentially building a new footing under the existing footing. If it has stabilized then don't worry about it.

Poor lot drainage can also make the problem worse by letting water puddle in certain areas . . . check your sprinklers too, I've seen lawns that are just spongy because someone accidently set the timer to run one zone way, way too long in the middle of the night and nobody ever noticed!

 

[sudsmaster]

Toggle,

"IMHO all storage type water heaters are pretty much the same. And are sourced form jsut a few mannies. Check the duration of the warranty which basically is parallel to how good and how many rust-protection anodes there are. (Are they magnesium? I forget) Little bits of the sacrificial anode chemically rush to the point where the glass lining has worn away from the metal base and fuses the hole shut. "

I think there are differences between various gas water heaters. What I would look for in a new water heater: 12 year warranty, extra thick insulation, brass drain valve (the plastic ones can break off), dual anode rods (more about that later). Newer water heaters also have safeguards against accidental ignition of ambient combustible fumes (as might occur in a garage where gas/solvents are stored). That's a good thing too.

Regarding the anode rods. Their function is to dissolve in water instead of the metal of the tank dissolving. They can do this because they are higher (or lower) on the electrolytic scale than the steel in the heater. In other words, they are "less noble" than the steel. The main components of anode rods are magnesium or aluminum. Magnesium is more effective in agressive water situations (aggressive water is soft and/or acid water), but can impart a rotten egg smell to heated water. Aluminum is less protective but probably all your heater needs if your water is well behaved (slightly alkaline, and slightly hard, just like your bitter ex, lol).

Anode rods will slowly dissolve in the water, which is one of the reasons why it's not a good idea to drink or cook with water from the hot water heater (who needs more aluminum in their grey matter?). Once they are 2/3 used up, it's time to replace them. If they are not replaced, then the water heater may corrode and spring a leak. Which reminds me, the rods do not plug up holes - their job is to prevent the holes from forming in the first place. Replacing anode rods is actually quite simple, although it takes a big wrench or socket and "breaker bar" to unscrew them. Finding replacement anode rods can be a bit difficult, but most plumbing supply stores should stock them. When replacing your anode rod, it's important to make sure it matches any other anode rod in the heater. That is, if your water heater has two anode rods (one by itself and the other integrated with the cold water inlet), then the replacement rod should match the other one. Or replace both at once. As I recall, mixing an aluminum rod with a magnesium rod will result in the very rapid dissolving of one or the other (I think, the aluminum one, but my chemistry background says it should be the magnesium that goes first). As I recall, the bolt that holds the rod in place will have a flat top if the rod is aluminum. If the rod is magnesium then the bolt will have a little rounded bump in the middle - like a mini M&M.

(y the way, nothing in this should be construed as rod replacment instruction. One should be familiar with common sense precautions on working with potentially dangerous things like gas, electricity, very hot water, plumbing, water pressure, big wrenches with lots of torque, and heavy objects, before tackling rod replacement.)
These anode rods last a variable amount of time, depending on water chemistry. They might only last a few years in acid soft water situations. Or, as in the case of my water heater, which is something like 27 years old now, the rod lasted about 23 years, with some life left on it still. I replaced it with a new rod, and also bought a spare rod so that I'd have one handy the next time I check. I lucked out there. I also have a new "dip tube" (the cold water inlet plastic tube) as these tend to deteriorate over time as well.

I figure most water heaters probably start to leak because the rods dissolved and were no longer protecting the tank. So for the cost of a $20 metal rod the homeowner gets to spend $300 or more for a new heater, disposal of the old one, etc...

 

[exploder321]

Water Heaters

Mine got ripped out today for a GE one... Hope its better than that More Flower or whatever the hell it was called..