cheap hardware in new homes

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Cybrvanr

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I was quite apalled when I visited a friend's house tonight that he had moved into last spring. The house was quite fancy...about 3000 square feet, and they paid about 350,000 which is rather expensive for this area. The reason why I was bothered about this house however was simply the cheap fixtures throughout the house.

Doorknobs were just brass plated, and the finish was already starting to come off.

Interior doors themselves were just hollow veneer.

Instead of cast iron railings on the porches, there were these cheap plastic things that felt like if one put weight on them, they'd collapse.

Faucets throughout the house were made out of plastic, and then painted with some sort of chrome paint to look like real metal

Kitchen cabinets were made out of veneer particleboard, and were no better than flat-pack furniture at wal-mart

cheap vinyl floor in entryways, kitchen, baths, etc that were already showing traffic patterns.

Carpet laid directly on the sub-floor, and no hardwood floor beneath.

A single heat pump to climate control both floors (a house of this size needs 2 zones)

Fireplace did not have brick chimney, just a sheetmetal flue pipe.

Is this the way all new homes are built? I guess I'm used to living in older homes, but I hardly paid a third of what he did for that house, and got fixtures and hardware much more worthy of the job. Of course, my house is almost 60 years old, but even then, it was considered a small, inexpensive house when it was built, yet the builders cared enough to use decent materials. I hardly see the materials in this house lasting for even 10-15 years before significant wear will occur and renovations will be needed. Seems like such a waste of money (although I didn't tell him that, he seemed quite proud of the place!)
 
Building a House is a joke

Ok... I have a new house (more or less) we bought a 1965 Rental House that was a dump. I added 1000 sq feet on back, and a 250 sq sun porch, for a total of 1700 sq feet....We basicly gutted the house from stem to stern so i count that as a new house

Now mind you, i picked most everything out.. But the builders choices left much to be desired... To get anything worth two shits you have to actuall go out and pick it out...

Take my light fixtures: I left this for the most part up to the builders.. Now i have very dinky ugly bright brass light fixtures.. The switch plates and switches don't match, there is a pleathera of door knobs missing, which btw where supposed to be antique brass and they aren't what i picked out.. I have hardwood throught, although the new stuff is already having wear issues...
My heating system is what kills me.. I couldn't get up in the attic to look, but i specificly told the builders i wanted a Trane or American Standard system in my house.. Insted they put this cheap ass Colemen Evcon thing in.. It doesn't work right, keeps half the friggin house cold and the other half bbq'd.. Plus they didn't even put a decent filtering system in, some crappy thing you half to change monthly.. And it's very loud...
Plus they never came back to finish...
Oh and one bath trub has big chunks out of it, the fixtures for it where never put in right and they too are crappy plastic chromed things..The medicne chest mirror is just glued on..
They wreked on bathroom cabinet and broke my beautiful 1940's pedesdtal sink i hunted high and low for..
I planned on re-using the oven that was here, but it too was destroyed..
They took it upon them selves to leave a nice hole in my roof and not remove the chimmny as i had asked.. Now i have to have a wall redone in my kitchen
There is still no light over my sink, nor is the drywell even finished...
Who ever put my counter tops in did a sorry lousy job, it shows every seem and they arent secured very well
The cabinets aren't level
There are huge gashes in my linoluem (vinal) floor in the kitchen
There has been a plethora of electrical issues throughout
The plumbing still isnt 100% correct and my kitchen sink wiggles
The deck isnt finished
This is just half of my list
Mark my words, I will never ever every build another house..
I wish i would've bought the 2200 Moduler home i looked at.. I would've been happier than this crap

Not to mention the builders/contractors smoking weed in the house one night and driking to boot..

I don't mind a scantly clad worker esp. when its hot, but some of these guy need to figure out how to dress a tad better (you could see everything)

Fortunatly,
I made enough from the sale of my grams and gramps old home and my insurance settlement to pay cash for this mess pile..SO they haven't seen the last check yet... Its been 4 mths and no one ahs shown up to fix the wrongs... I guess they don't miss the $35,000 there owed
 
Sounds like our last house. We bought it brand new and finished so we didn't get a chance to upgrade. The cheapest of doorknobs and locksets and yes the brass paint was peeling off within months (Weiser stuff I think, their cheapo line). The GE dishwasher was awful, on/off and air dry was about it, noisy, poor washing. That went out the door right quick. The lino in the kitchen/nook and bathrooms was like you say of the poorest quality as was the wall to wall carpeting but it did have underpadding. The light fixtures were also bargain basement as were the switches and switch plate covers. The kitchen faucet was middling Moen, single lever with built in soap dispenser. Structurally the house wasn't bad, good roof, good siding, pretty good drywalling job etc. It's just that the fixtures were like a pimple on the Mona Lisa. I've been thru plenty of new show homes and this is commonplace up to certain price levels, especially on spec houses. Now this house we bought, built in the 50's, certainly stuff has been replaced/renewed but the house itself just feels solid.
 
in defense

I bought a 1924 Craftsman 5 years ago..it was a dump..I did'nt gut it but it took tons of elbow grease and paint to get her back into shape. Built like a brick shit house (as my dad say's) I ran out of money towards the end..so replacing the heat (floor furnace and window unit) and air has been on the back burner. The only time I long for plastic fixtures and hollow doors is in the winter. It's sooo cold in an old house!!! I went over to a frinds house last night for dinner...his was built in 84...you know...butcher block counter tops, mavue (pink..not sure if I'm spelling that correctly..LOL!!) carpet...but it's soo nice and warm..he has a fireplace insert...I baked myself in front of it.
 
Poor Workmanship

We bought our house about 23 years ago. After the sale, we slowly discovered how lousy the workmanship was! We were young and silly regarding such a serious purchase, I guess. The doors were thin and hollow. The jacuzzi was wired with wiring used in the kitchen oven and most of the electrical outlets were not grounded. The plumbing was terrible, plastic and such, as well as poorly installed windows and foor frames. The kitchen was a prime example of what not to have in one's kitchen. Uneven cabinets, thin, cheap wood look-alikes, etc. The subflooring was not up to builders'code. The house was only a year old when we bought it and didn't know that it had been a spec house that had been hastily constructed. It really sucked! In the 23 years since, we have spent enough money remodeling to buy a new house! No wonder the people who sold it to us left town. It sounds like the new ones have their problems too.
 
I am witnessing this first-hand when looking at newly-constructed "Fedders houses" in Brooklyn....

I'm especially concerned about the quality of fittings on railings, extension pipes, even weak installations and basics like masonry...
 
What next?

There are affordable A.O. Smith heaters that are good...also, you can consider Kenmore at Sears for something even more inexpensive (the models vary re: durability, though)....
 
Going both ways

I bought my place in 2003 and it was built in 1999. I'm not sure if the builder made all the decisions or whether the first owner had any input, but someone somewhere along the line was apparently schizophrenic.

The washer was a (if you'll pardon the oxymoron) TOL GE. The matching dryer was definitely BOL--didn't even have a buzzer to tell you when the clothes were dry!

Dishwasher and disposer were both crappy GEs, the range was one of the higher-end models. Kitchen cabinets are 42" and solid oak. The range hood is a 20-dollar model.

Ceramic tile in bathrooms and foyer were well done and high-quality. WW carpeting already looks like it needs to be replaced. First owner ripped up a lot of carpet and had hardwood put down.

Toilets were crappyass models, but the vanities are TOL. The light fixtures in the bathrooms had to have cost 10 bucks, tops.

I'm not sure if the hanging fixtures in the den, foyer, and dining room are high-quality or not. All I know is I don't care for 'em.

Can't remember the brand of water heater, but the inspector said it's one of the three brands he likes to see in a house.

veg
 
Gurl, everyone is entitled to my opinion. LOL

My stupid water heater broke tonight..What next?

IMHO all storage type water heaters are pretty much the same. And are sourced form jsut a few mannies. Check the duration of the warranty which basically is parallel to how good and how many rust-protection anodes there are. (Are they magnesium? I forget) Little bits of the sacrificial anode chemically rush to the point where the glass lining has worn away from the metal base and fuses the hole shut. [don't ANYONE go there! LOL]

If it is gas-fired:

40 gallon = 40,000B Btu/h
50 gallon = 50,000 Btu/h
65 gallon = 65,000 Btu/h

Where 1 gallon = 4+/- litres)

"Better" ones offer MORE heat for the size, lower-end ones offer less heat for the size.

"Self-cleaning" is a joke. (Don't pay much extra for it) Just drain a bit of water off the bottom once a month.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what BTUs (British Thermal Units) that would be in Metric Speak. Kilowatts, Calores or Joules.
 
Building Costs . . .

The truth of the matter here is that construction is expensive, and you can’t expect high quality fittings unless you budget for them. Costs have increased greatly over the past 10 years, especially for steel, concrete, and electrical wiring. Furthermore, you can’t rely on most builders to match your taste or design sensitivities when it comes to choosing hardware and fittings because it isn’t their area of expertise. If you are building or remodeling and don’t hire a good designer or architect, then you should take the time to choose these items yourself.

I have worked as an architect for a number of years in the residential market. I’m currently doing a major remodel on what was an1800 sq. ft. single story house. We demolished about 800 sq. ft., leaving 1000 sq. ft, and are building about 1800 entirely new square feet. The existing space is being completely renovated, and the finished house will have two new baths, one new powder room, new kitchen cabinets, all new flooring and interior wall finishes. Outside it is stucco with a tile roof, both of which will be about 60% new. The construction costs , not including fees and permits, will be a little over $400,000. Quality is good, but not fancy, with wood windows and floors and stone countertops and a two-zone A/C system. The owner in this case has been very involved in sticking to his budget, and the fact that it is a simple house on a flat lot helped greatly. I’ve got another project on a hillside lot. It is a three story, 3800 sq. ft. house, and the foundation concrete work alone (including the pool) is over $300,000. It has a lot of steel and concrete in it, and the cost of those materials really hurts.

The upshot of all this is that building for less than $200 sq. ft. is hard, and you have to be careful where you allocate the money. The good part of new construction is that it is almost always much stronger than the old stuff. I’ve seen plenty of old roofs with 2 x 4 rafters at 24 inches on center, or foundation walls with almost no steel in the concrete. Modern building codes won’t let this happen now, but of course it increases costs. New houses are also a lot more energy efficient, which saves some gas and electricity so you can run those fabulous old washers and dryers . . .
 
My mom's house was built in 1948, at the very end of the war restrictions. Yet it has plaster walls, gorgeous hardwood floors (which she INSISTS on covering with carpet) romex wiring, copper plumbing, and two steel beams running across the basement so that the place is rock solid.

The addition they put in in the 70's (basement garage, master bedroom, bath, and sitting room above the garage) by comparison had a crappy cement job in the garage, an inadequately sized drainage system (during heavy storms, the rain water backs up into the basement and goes down the much more reasonably sized floor drain), plywood floors, sheetrock walls, and popcorn ceilings in the bedroom/sitting room area.

True, my Dad was a little stingy (he was also staring down the barrel of putting my sister through college) but I really feel like they got ripped off, compared to the rest of the house.
 
I live in what is basically an 80's cookie cutter subdiv

When I bought the house, I was pleased to find that the bathroom tilework was original, and in flawless condition. (after all retro *is* my middle name!)All the faucets, doorknobs, etc, same story. The original owner was very good at keeping it up, however, so everything was in good shape. Seems to me as if construction quality simply depends on who is doing the constructing. I looked at homes of the same era as my house, to find shoddy workmanship still as it was originally, with lots of wear, obviously. I've also seen new homes with both cheap fittings, and what looked like high quality. I guess it's the same as anything else. You get what you pay for. a 30 year old home I looked at before I bought mine, in a subdivision built by Ryan Homes, a major homebuilder in this area, was one of the cheapies. It looked decent, on the surface, for it's age, but on our way out, my agent grabbed the bannister as we were walking down the stairs; the railing came off in his hand. Looks like it had been attached 30 years ago with nothing more than liquid nails. I'm suprised it held that long. We got a laugh out of it, and I didn't buy the house.
 
1972 California Contemporary

Is how I'd describe my house, built by Pulte.

I still have the original closet doors(metal bi-fold) and all the doorknobs and such. Seem like decent quality.
My kitchen cabinets and counters are original, cabinets have been painted off-white, counters in very good shape. The kitchen appliances were all Kenmore, the original Tappan stuff from the builder was long gone.
Bathrooms still have original vanities and cabinets, as well as the upstairs tub and shower. All good.
What irks me is the way the house has settled, there is not a right angle anyplace in my LR/DR between the floor and walls.
The floor boards also squeak lots, like maybe they are not even nailed down.
Some days I think my place was built during a weekend bender!
 
hoover,

Your problem may be caused not by the original workmanship but soil conditions . . . more than likely the house has settled due to poor soil compaction during the grading of the lot. Part of the house may be on firm original soil and part on the poorly compacted fill. This is the sort of thing that building codes are much stricter about today.

If it keeps settling then you might need to eventually have part of the foundation underpinned . . . this requires digging down next to the house and essentially building a new footing under the existing footing. If it has stabilized then don't worry about it.

Poor lot drainage can also make the problem worse by letting water puddle in certain areas . . . check your sprinklers too, I've seen lawns that are just spongy because someone accidently set the timer to run one zone way, way too long in the middle of the night and nobody ever noticed!
 
Toggle,

"IMHO all storage type water heaters are pretty much the same. And are sourced form jsut a few mannies. Check the duration of the warranty which basically is parallel to how good and how many rust-protection anodes there are. (Are they magnesium? I forget) Little bits of the sacrificial anode chemically rush to the point where the glass lining has worn away from the metal base and fuses the hole shut. "

I think there are differences between various gas water heaters. What I would look for in a new water heater: 12 year warranty, extra thick insulation, brass drain valve (the plastic ones can break off), dual anode rods (more about that later). Newer water heaters also have safeguards against accidental ignition of ambient combustible fumes (as might occur in a garage where gas/solvents are stored). That's a good thing too.

Regarding the anode rods. Their function is to dissolve in water instead of the metal of the tank dissolving. They can do this because they are higher (or lower) on the electrolytic scale than the steel in the heater. In other words, they are "less noble" than the steel. The main components of anode rods are magnesium or aluminum. Magnesium is more effective in agressive water situations (aggressive water is soft and/or acid water), but can impart a rotten egg smell to heated water. Aluminum is less protective but probably all your heater needs if your water is well behaved (slightly alkaline, and slightly hard, just like your bitter ex, lol).

Anode rods will slowly dissolve in the water, which is one of the reasons why it's not a good idea to drink or cook with water from the hot water heater (who needs more aluminum in their grey matter?). Once they are 2/3 used up, it's time to replace them. If they are not replaced, then the water heater may corrode and spring a leak. Which reminds me, the rods do not plug up holes - their job is to prevent the holes from forming in the first place. Replacing anode rods is actually quite simple, although it takes a big wrench or socket and "breaker bar" to unscrew them. Finding replacement anode rods can be a bit difficult, but most plumbing supply stores should stock them. When replacing your anode rod, it's important to make sure it matches any other anode rod in the heater. That is, if your water heater has two anode rods (one by itself and the other integrated with the cold water inlet), then the replacement rod should match the other one. Or replace both at once. As I recall, mixing an aluminum rod with a magnesium rod will result in the very rapid dissolving of one or the other (I think, the aluminum one, but my chemistry background says it should be the magnesium that goes first). As I recall, the bolt that holds the rod in place will have a flat top if the rod is aluminum. If the rod is magnesium then the bolt will have a little rounded bump in the middle - like a mini M&M.

(y the way, nothing in this should be construed as rod replacment instruction. One should be familiar with common sense precautions on working with potentially dangerous things like gas, electricity, very hot water, plumbing, water pressure, big wrenches with lots of torque, and heavy objects, before tackling rod replacement.)
These anode rods last a variable amount of time, depending on water chemistry. They might only last a few years in acid soft water situations. Or, as in the case of my water heater, which is something like 27 years old now, the rod lasted about 23 years, with some life left on it still. I replaced it with a new rod, and also bought a spare rod so that I'd have one handy the next time I check. I lucked out there. I also have a new "dip tube" (the cold water inlet plastic tube) as these tend to deteriorate over time as well.

I figure most water heaters probably start to leak because the rods dissolved and were no longer protecting the tank. So for the cost of a $20 metal rod the homeowner gets to spend $300 or more for a new heater, disposal of the old one, etc...
 
Water Heaters

Mine got ripped out today for a GE one... Hope its better than that More Flower or whatever the hell it was called..
 
Mine had bothe elements bad..Apperantly the plumber had a bunch left in his shed and was using them up (i saw the box, the energy guide was from 1999ish).. I whent to Homo Depot and bought a GE with 5 year warranty for $200..I had another plumber put it in and called the other plumber to come for his old water heater and to fix a couple other issues
 
Rants, ramblings, observations, opinions on buildings

I have friends and family who live in the affluent suburbs of Dallas. I've been to their houses and I can't believe how much they paid when the fixtures are obviously from the bargain bin. (It does not cost nearly as much to build here, much less than the California price of $200 Sq. Ft. When I first moved to Port Arthur in 1999, admittedly an economically depressed area, I could have a new house built for about $72 Sq. Ft. The cost is now closer to $100-$120 sq. ft.) When the overall costs of building the house are considered, it is not that much more expensive to install good quality (not necessarily top quality) fixtures. If I was going to buy a new home, and I wasn't involved in its design and construction, I would tell the home builder that he would either have to lower his price or upgrade the fixtures if he used crap, or I wouldn't buy.

As far as construction quality, I think older homes are built better than new homes, even with the current building codes. I'm talking pre-1960s construction. After 1960, quality became worse and areas that previously had lenient building codes had to toughen them to stop poor quality and dangerous building practices. A couple of reasons for the better quality of pre-1960 construction: the quality of lumber was better, it has since greatly declined (faster growing trees are being planted and harvested in as little as 15-20 years - knotty, twisty, inferior. No old mature trees with good heartwood are available for use now.), and most of these older homes were constructed with shiplap inside and out. This is wood that interlocks via a tongue and groove system. When the 2 X 4 frame was put up, the inside and outside was all shiplapped. Often, the shiplap was applied at a 45 degree angle, the angle inside was reversed from the outside, giving greater strength (one observation on my house: this old wood is HARD. The roofer had a really hard time nailing the new roof on). Shiplap construction is not really feasible today because it would require much more wood to build a house, and it would be cost prohibitive.

My parents 1976 home, while nice, has a lot of slipshod elements. They had to replace the entire master bath area - the builders did not use any moisture barrier under the tile. Other problems can be found through out the home.

My house was built in 1940 and is really solid. Back then, there were no codes for building to meet windstorm ratings like now. They were just built well. My house just withstood a direct hit from Hurricane Rita, and a few other hits in the past. Most of the houses in this area are older and withstood the storm well (except for the ones that the owners basically let rot - but even they were still standing), the major damage was to their roofs, or from trees falling through them. People with old or cheap three tab roofs had damage, people with architectural shingles and/or newer roofs had little damage from the wind (I cannot stress this enough - if you are going to make the effort and spend money to put on a new roof, it does not cost much more to use top quality materials: a cheap three tab roof was only a few hundred dollars cheaper than the architectural shingles I chose. Much of the cost of roofing is the labor, not the materials. I'm a believer after this hurricane: do not use cheap three tab shingles!). Commercial buildings suffered the worst by far, especially ones with big window fronts. Codes for commercial construction are supposed to be tougher, but those buildings did not hold up well. The Sherwin-Williams paint store near me completely collapsed (really impressive to see). The large indoor mall was closed for almost a full year - heavy roof damage. Most of the gas stations also had severe damage. There were tornados associated with Rita and they did cause a lot of damage to houses, but again mostly from trees falling or to the roof. Look at New Orleans. Based on pictures on the news, it looked like most of the old houses withstood the 140mph winds, it was the flooding afterward that basically destroyed the town.

BTW - my house still has the original gas water heater in good working order. It is a Ruud with a monel tank - monel is an alloy, it will probably never corrode. It is 30 gallon. I bought a 50 gallon Sears water heater with a 12 year warranty to run the kitchen and laundry areas. As little as 10 years ago I used to see water heaters with lifetime warranties, but now I can't find any. Another example of crappy modern manufacturing practices, or "Progress" as the manufacturers like to call it. People think I'm strange for using mostly old stuff, but I don't have to buy replacement appliances every five years like they do.
 
Part of the reason why homes from the 40's and 50's might be well-built, despite a huge housing crunch at the time, is the FHA and the VHA (I think I have those acronyms right - they stand for the Federal Housing Administration and Veteran's Housing Administration)

As the soldiers came home from WWII (which took a few years - my dad didn't get back until 1947) there was a huge demand for housing. The GI Bill of Rights offered help with college and with buying a house (which, among other things, helped propel my family out of poverty) but they put a lot of requirements on developers so that they wouldn't just throw up acres of shoddy houses. They had to have a certain amount of storage, be on an appropriate sized lot, be constructed with a high quality materials and so on to be able to get the vet's financing.

Personally, I would never want to live in a brand new house. I like a little bit of history. For instance, I know that the people that we bought this house from were the original owners. They had been in an internment camp during World War II, and that the head of the house was the manager of the picture frame department at the downtown Frederick & Nelson, and that they had two girls - one of whom was born in the camp. (according to the neighbors, who have lived here for 60 years). For some reason, knowing that sort of minutae appeals to me. It's history give the house more character.
 
My house just irritates me to the nth degree..Tonight i found the kitchen counters aren;t held on right and theres more molding missing... The builders have yet to show back up.. They still are owed $36,000 by me.... Fine with me..I will collect the intrest to pay for the needed uprades to fix my shack correctly
 
My home was built in 1941 - just before America entered WWII. Before I purchased it in 1997, the inspector's report stated that it was essentially very well built. Since then I've had occasion to do various improvements on the structure - such as a seismic retrofit on the foundation, and insulating the home, and I'd have to agree - most of the workmanship and timber is top-notch. You simply cannot find lumber as defect-free as what was used for this home, except perhaps at premium boutique prices. The wiring in the original part of the home is knob-and-tube, and it is in great shape. It's clear that whoever installed it was a craftsman and knew what he was doing. There has since been some remodeling and an addition, done in the mid-60's. The addition construction quality is ok, pretty good, but some of the remodel work was kind of scary. A lot of my work insualting the attic had to do with closing off major air leaks caused by the slipshod remodel work.

It's a one story structure, and I didn't notice any shiplap work on the exterior walls (at least on the part I could see in the crawl), but the subfloor in the older part of the home is 1x6 wood that is set at a 45 degree angle to the floor joists. The walls are only 2x4's, 16" on center, but it's good wood and seems quite solid. The rafters are 2x4's 24" o.c., but again good wood, with a hip-roof design that is inherently stronger than a gable roof. The roofing material is heavy cedar shake, about 25 years old now and still in relatively good shape. When it comes time to renew it, I plan on adding 1/2 CDX plywood sheathing on top of the existing gapped 1x4 sheeting (the gaps are needed for natural wood roofing to breathe), which should further strengthen the roof. And of course I'll use premium quality composition shingles - I want the new roof to last as long as possible.
 
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