Circuit Breakers or Fuse panel?

[launderess]

Rewiring A Home

All depends upon where one lives and who is doing the work.

Licensed plumbers and electricans here in the NYC area often charge equal or more than some top physicans on an hourly basis. Even what would be considered small jobs can easily cost a small fortune here. As one has always stated that was one of the reasons many didn't bother going for the 220v connections required for Miele units. In some cases installing the proper circuts where they didn't exist equalled or exceeded cost of the appliance. Then there is the problem that if an upgrade is required from the street to one's home/building it involves local electric company, yet more union labour.

Know what some will say, simply do the work one's self. Not on, well at least not legally. Here in NYC code requires most anything but minor electircal work be done by an licensed electrican who must file the proper paperwork with the city. Of course one can work around this but if something happens and there is a fire or other damage insurance will not pay. Should one live in a multi-family building one could also be liable for damage/costs to other residents and certainly the owner of the building.[this post was last edited: 7/16/2012-15:05]

 

[wayupnorth]

Laundress is right. There could be a significant liability issue if the work is not signed off to code by a licenced electrician in many places. Although I did all my own work to the breaker box, I did have to have an inspection to sign off and the electrician had to do the actual meter connection by law. The electrician was impressed with how neat my wiring was run and said if I ever wanted to become an apprentice to let him know. But years of running phone lines for the telephone company, I could do it in my sleep.

 

[washerboy]

feel your pain

My house was built in 1924 and still has the orginal wiring. At some point it was "upated" for a 220 window unit, dishwasher and fridg. With that said I've learned what can be plugged up with what. If I iron in the kitchen that means I have to unplugg/turn off the AC in the bedroom..it seems like things that produce heat trip breakers more. I have breakers, fuses, and soemthing outside that looks like 2 shotgun shells in a box. Since it's just me living in the house now I'm not in the rush I once was to get things replaced. An electrician friend of mine told me a few years ago I'd be okay so long as I didn't "mess" with anything. I try to be really careful when I'm in the attic moving things around. I'm more concerned about the main power supply that comes in from the utility pole; the wire hangs down so low that if it could be touched by standing on tippy toes. Like I'm not going to do that but there's always to possiblity of someone doing the big stupid.

 

[dustin92]

Here, you can do your own work on YOUR house. My dad has rewired a house previously and installed all the wiring in his barn, so he is going to do the rewiring. He is going to have the power company shut off the main power for a day (and upgrade the meter and wiring to the pole) while he replaces the fuse panel with a breaker box and rearranges things, but it is WAY too hot here to shut off the a/c.

 

[kimball455]

<span style="font-size: small;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;">Very familiar situation. My 1865 house originally had 110V with an open knife switch with both legs fused. The switch was behind a small door in the master bedroom. When my Aunt bought the house she had the electrical system upgraded to a 40A/leg 220V service. That remained in place for some years. That service added a few new circuits but I was unable to, as being discussed, run the AC and the toaster at the same time. It was a real juggling act to not pop a fuse. Several years ago I did the remodel of most of the house and upgraded to 240V 200A. Just for the JennAir I needed a 50A breaker. Dryer is gas but there is a separate circuit for the washer and another for the dryer. They are 20A 120V. Added several convenience outlets and A/C. Sanyo minisplits. Each has its own circuit. All work done by professionals. I do not miss trying to find a fuse when one pops and have you noticed the price of a fuse? Rather on the expensive side. I remember when they were cheap. And then there was always the trick of putting a penny behind the blown fuse … a fire waiting to happen.</span>

<span style="font-size: small;"> </span>

 

[MaytagA710]

As everyone else has stated...

The only way to rid this problem is to have the house re-wired. It may/will be costly, but I think it is worth it, not only for the added safety. 

 

Other members have said your house would probably lack grounded service, (using older, obsolete and illegal NEMA 1 plugs) you can get around this by using a "cheater plug" which would require you to screw in a ground to the outlets faceplate. This would make grounded service "available", but not totally safe.

 

Electrical code in Canada would require GFCIs in places like bathrooms and kitchens. As of only a few years ago, Canada also requires Arc Flash protection on circuits feeding bedrooms. New panel installation would allow for a safer home electrically. 

 

So that being said, you will have added security/less fire risk. Its all down to if you want to pay for it now!

 

[lordkenmore]

I am not entirely sure, but the "cheater plug" to get grounded service might not work. I tried that years back when I got my first computer, and discovered the outlet I used, even with cheater, was not grounded. I think I assumed that grounding the outlet box was not done, although I suppose it might have been done, but the ground failed. In any case, I ended up running a ground wire from the cheater to a cold water pipe. This is probably not a solution that is "recommended" by experts--it's not something I recommend, and I'm not an expert! But, in my case, at that time, it was about the only real option I had. Getting a proper outlet installed was simply not in the budget. In my case, the ground was indicated as OK on the power strip, and I assumed it was good enough for what was needed. (I was told that the ground was critical for draining static electricity. No idea if that was true, but that was the wisdom I worked under.)

 

[washerman]

it could be worse.....

my parents live in a 1940's house that has 60 amp (yes, 6-0!) service. It is sorta funny to see how they are constantly balancing the load so that things don't go bang. since they have an electric stove, water heater, and a pulse furnace with central air it can get pretty dicey at times. You can't run the coffee pot, toaster and microwave at the same time (breakfast is interesting). They also have a service that is only 9 feet above ground.....interesting place.

 

[dustin92]

We are using a "cheater" with the window a/c for now, but most of the house does have grounded outlets, just the bedrooms and a random outlet here and there are not grounded. As soon as the financial situation improves a bit, the house will be rewired and grounded.

 

[polkanut]

Our house had a 60 amp service when we bought it in 1998.  Rewiring our 1925 bungalow was the first project we took care of.  We upgraded to a 100 amp service and it suits our needs just fine.  Before the upgrade, the furnace/ac and electric water heater each had its own circuit.  That left the remainder of the house to operate on 2 fuses.  You know your electrical service needs an upgrade when you're sitting in the living room, and the washing machine running in the basement is causing the lights to flicker.  This house also had a 1950's Westinghouse dryer, and a Corning smoothtop Frigidaire range when we purchased it.

 

[jerrod6]

I would get this fixed as soon as possible.  When I bought my house it had 100amp service but the wiring and box were old.  To get the point, one night the box caught on fire.  I was able to put it out, but then the electric stove did not work, well it worked but the burners would only get warm not hot, half of the inside lights were not working and the ones that were working were  glowing orange instead of white. 

 

I ended up getting 200Amp service, and new wiring in the house.  It was not cheap  because the wires were running throughout the house inside of conduits but it had to be done for safety and what else could I do?  Orange light bulbs are weird.

 

You don't want a fire because of this.

 

[mattl]

About the only reason a "cheater" plug might not function is if the outlet was wired in reverse.  That would make the center screw of the outlet "Hot", and non functional as a ground.  An easy fix.  The ground wire is at the same potential as the neutral wire, they are tied to the same point in the panel in most installations, So I can see no other reason for it not to work.

 

[lordkenmore]

As for my situation years back, I have no idea what was wrong. It was wrong, and I corrected it as best as I could at that time. The important lesson I took away is to assume nothing when faced with old wiring. Standards were different once. Updates might or might not have been competently made. And, of course, age can take a toll.

 

[circlew]

"Cheater" plugs

These will only provide a ground if the box is grounded, such as if the house is wired with metal conduit, armored cable (BX), or NM cable with a ground wire. Many older homes are wired with non-metallic cable such as 14-2, that has no ground.

The house I'm currently living in was built in 1938, and most of the system is not grounded. It's new enough to have NM cable instead of knob & tube. Newer circuits have been added for electric heat, window air cond., and refrigerator, that are all grounded. I plug things such as computer and vacuum cleaner into either the air cond. or refrigerator outlets, and have no trouble. The house has a newer 200A breaker panel though it is a small house. There are some old fuse boxes in the basement for the dryer (unused), water heater and a couple other basement circuits.

I'm surprised fuses were used in some homes built as late as the 60's, as circuit breakers have been around for many years. I have a 1939 Westinghouse catalog that shows various sizes of circuit breaker panels, and I'm sure many other companies made them as well. My own house was built in '52, and had a 100A fused service until my dad had a 200A breaker box installed in '73 when we got central air. My grandfather's house, a small 4 rm. Mississippi shack, had circuit breakers from when it was first wired in '48. I always though that made it more "modern" than our own house.

Another variation I've seen was a fused panel that has switches next to each fuse. The middle school I attended had such a setup. Though the building dated from the turn of the century, the wiring had been updated circa 1950.

 

[frigilux]

My house was built in 1963, and it has a fuse box. In the 10 years I've lived here, I've only had to replace a blown fuse twice.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I agree, there's nothing wrong with having fuses, but you must have wiring adequate for what you're going to run.  Curcuit breakers wear out over time, but a new fuse is foolproof.

 

Ken D.

 

[MaytagA710]

I wouldn't go as far as saying fuses are "fool proof". Breakers are far more reliable and safer than fuses. Breakers can be equipped with multiple other devices such as arc flash, residual current devices, and ground fault detectors. The only way a breaker would wear out is from improper use, such as using them to turn on and off lights in a workshop or heating plant. Our heating plant (prime example of misuse) has lights controlled by using breakers instead of switches, which up until the late 70s was legal in Canada. 

 

As for the cheater plug, I would't use one lol. Tom is right, the ground fault would terminate at the faceplate screw if the junction box wasn't grounded, or if there wasn't a metal conduit feeding that junction box. 

 

[dustin92]

Well everything ran ok today, (no blown fuses yay!), and my dad sorted out some of the wiring in the kitchen, that was really messed up, he said the hot and ground were crossed. Its working fine now though. We don't have any choice but use the cheater for the window a/c at this point, it got up to 105 degrees here today and even with the central air, window unit and several fans, it got up to 76 in the house (the central a/c is set at about 65.) And it has run nonstop since about 10am.

 

[tolivac]

Breakers & fuses

At the plant I work in-some of the switchgear for the transmitters here have BOTH-its found fuses have a faster response to short circuits than a breaker.The fuse can serve as a backup for the breaker in case of failure.The circuit breaker trucks for the 4160V feed to two of our transmitters have fuses in them-100A,400A.And yes,have heard these blow!BANG!!!!There are 400A resuable fuses for each 4160 volt feeder to the building-two lines for each transmitter-you don't want be be near or under one of these fuses if it lets go-the contents are blown downward.Have relinked these when they are blown-GE has a relink kit to "reload" the fuses.A transmitter had a shorted primary regulator transformer-blew the feeder fuses in a hurry!Now the transformer has been rebuilt-OK.

 

[mysteryclock]

400A residential?

With plug-in hybrid and electric cars now being available, do you think we'll start seeing 400A residential service as a "standard" any time soon? If you're building from scratch is there any dramatic increase in cost to go from 200A to 400A, or is it just a matter of a bigger line (?) / meter / panel? Do utility companies charge any more for higher-capacity lines or is it all just based on usage?