Clean Rinsing Detergents

[MrX]

Laundress:

I've found sometimes they just get the forumlas horribly wrong too.

For example, Persil (Unilever) in the UK and Ireland had a LiquiGel format which was ridiculously foamy. I remember using the normal dose in our washing machine (as prsecribed on the bottle) and it over-foamed so much that there was foam pouring out of the drawer of the machine when it ran the first spin!

They launched Persil Small and Mighty and it was a completely different forumla and very low foam.

It can also behave very differently in different machines as the drum design and the way they operate can whip up more foam. A lot of European machines (including Miele and BSH machines) use scooping systems to ladle large amounts of water up from the outer drum and dump it over the clothes. I think Miele's Honeycomb and Bosch's similar drum actually has the effect of picking the water up from the end of the drum and cascading it down rather than allowing it to just sit at the bottom and that can really whip up a lot of foam if the detergent's prone to it.

Then you've got the water hardness level. In my case the water's extremely soft and a lot of P&G detergents tend to just foam ridiculously where as Persil / other unilever dergetents work quite nicely.

I don't like the Ariel gel format at all. I haven't found the results anything amazing and I don't like the noise of the cap rattling around in the machine. It's difficult to measure it without using the dosing cap and it is not usable from a drawer dispenser as it will not flush down.

With the Persil Small and Mighty you can dose a cap into the liquid dispensor in the drawer and it flushes down perfectly, or just dose it directly into the drum.

The same applies to Henkel's concentrated liquids (Persil in most markets and Le Chat Expert in France).

Ariel Powder used to overfoam too although it's improved a lot since some recent reforumulation. The scent's also now less over-powering. It was really strong for a while!

There's also absolutely no similarity between Euro Ariel normal biological powder's scent and Ariel Colour Power scent. They're completely different forumlations from what I can see / smell.

....

Also, some detergent components are designed NOT TO RINSE ..

The actilift formula is designed to coat your fibres with some kind of stain resistance coating and Persil (unilever) has long-acting scent releasing microcapsules.

 

[hoover1100]

Liberatordeluxe

Your rinses look about the same as mine too, I think as I said, you could carry out as many extra rinses as you want and you won't get then any clearer.

I really wouldn't worry about it, I'd personally rather have a detergent that cleans really well and leaves a bit of froth in the water than sacrifice cleaning performance for crystal clear water.

I must admit, I use Almat, Ariel or Persil bio powder on everything and have no problems whatsoever...

Matt

 

[iheartmaytag]

I may be wrong, as I am relying on hearsay, but I was told if you have totally clear clean rinse water your detergent wasn't doing it's job.
For the most part my rinse water is suds free, but I always detect a bit of cloudiness.

 

[launderess]

In Theory

Residual laundry detergent at least the liquid types aren't going to cause harm to most persons. You may notice laundry appearing dull and or grey after awhile (the dreaded tattle-tale gray), but unless one has allergic reactions or some such things should pretty much be fine.

 

[launderess]

Soap Based Liquid/Gel Detergents

Did some washing last night using the St.Croix "bulles" detergent one had sent from France. This product contains a good amount of soap and that could be causing the problems one has with rinsing. Have to be very careful to adjust dosage to soil level otherwise it takes ages to rinse away all the excess product.

Know the soap content is high because our washers drain into a stainless steel sink. After using "Super Croix" the bottom of the sink is covered in a film similar to what one sees after using pure soap for washing.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

Ariel Compact liquid

I would of thought soap based detergent was better for rinsing? Correct if I am wrong but is Persil not more soap based than Ariel?

Different subject but whatever happened to Ariel concentrated liquid similar to Persil 'Small and Mighty'? Haven't seen it for years and all you can mainly buy is the Ariel gels. Have seen the Ariel regular in Waitrose sometimes but not often.

 

[superelectronic]

Ariel Power, you mean?

...that was just put out in the interim before they launched the gel, probably so they could have something equivalent to Small and Mighty on the shelves. A shame really - it was quite nice stuff and had the more subtle perfume the ordinary liquid used to have in the early 2000s.

 

[launderess]

Soap and Soap Based Laundry Detergents

Can be tricky if one has soft water, which we do. That and or you really have to get the dosage properly matched to soil level.

Can use one of the Super Croix packets in the large 50lb SQ washer at laundryette with no problems. However on all but the most foul 5kg load in the Miele it is way too much. By "foul" one means there is enough soils/oils to keep the product busy and used up. Otherwise the excess just creates froth and won't rinse properly.

These are just one's own observations, YMMV.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

Yes Ariel Power is the one I meant. I really liked it because you were not paying for loads of water as you were with the dilute liquids. Funnily enough have found the excel gel fine if I use the full dose for my hard water and it rinses well then. Funny how if you use less it doesn't. Anyway am sticking to Ariel as find that one is the best for cleaning and doesn't affect my sensitive skin. I get it in Savers anyway so £2.99 for Ariel gel is not a bad price is it. Or Wilkinsons or Roys of Wroxham have it on offer. Hardly use supermarkets for cleaning products.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

Have finally found the problem of my rinsing problems and its build up of detergent. Despite doing repeat 90 degree maintenance washes with no detergent and no clothes in the drum I still get build up of loads of suds. There must be sludge in the pump but I can not access the pump because it has a strange screw on the fascica kick plate where the fluff filter is. I swear this is down to bloody gel detergents on 40 degree washes. Can anyone help? I don't want to call the Bosch engineer out if its something I can do myself. The screws on the bosch are neither straight or posidrive heads and more hexagonal type screws. Anyone have the Bosch Classix 6 Varioperfect?

 

[stan]

Don't know if this will help

But, just helped out a friend with a older kenmore top loader that has been a workhorse for a family of four.

She started complaining about the machine smelling, we took the machine apart to see what was trapped between the inner and outer tubs. There was a nasty sludge build up! We were able to reach between the two tubs with cleaning rags, and get a lot out manually. What we couldn't reach... We decided to fill the machine with the hottest tap water we could get, and added two cups of washing soda, let soak 30 min, started a normal cycle, and in a couple of minutes of agitation, suds started to appear, guess the soda was breaking the residue detergent build up loose,and or saponification of residual oil was taking place. We repeated this, and now the washer is spotless inside and out. ( she is a liquid detergent user ) ( or she was )
I realize that you can't do this with your front loader, because it cant be filled, and allowed to soak, but see if its O.K use a heavy dose of washing soda to clean it.

Hope this helps

 

[launderess]

Think That Is The Same Principle Behind Tide

Along with other "washing machine cleaners" that are mainly oxygen bleach and alkaline substances such as washing soda.

Acid based dishwasher and washing machine cleaners are great for lime scale and other mineral build-up, but the crud that often comes from using mainly liquid detergents is another matter.

 

[roscoe62]

90 degree maintenance washes

If these are not helping I would say it's time to give up on the product or seriously cut back on dosage and see what results you get if you like the product so much?
I use the Persil liquid on bulky items but no more than two teaspoons depending on the item and it works great, but only on bulky items. I use powder for everything else.
As for cleaning I had the same problem after continued use of liquids and used the clean washer cycle three times to clear it out of the machine. I also noticed that the clean washer cycle did not use warm/hot water, so when it filled on the second & third cycle I added hot water manually and used Affresh tablets.
After switching to powder for daily use I tried the clean cycle about a month or so in and noticed there was little to no foam/residue in the wash basket. I also have soft water and that is what works for me.
Good Luck

 

[liberatordeluxe]

Thanks Laundress, Stan and Roscoe62 you have been really helpful. Followed your advice and the drum is good as new no more suds or gunk. On the rinse cycles I see loads of water droplets now on the door glass and you don't get much if any foam! Why do these detergent manufacturers make these liquids knowingly that they are bad for washing machines? I shall use up the gel and wont buy it anymore. Maybe just use liquid but do a 60 degree wash afterwards for whites with oxygen bleach washing powder.

 

[rolls_rapide]

You could do as I do and use liquids for your newest, "best-est" coloured laundry, and use biological powders for everything else, especially whites. That way, the liquid detergent hasn't got the same chance of building up a residue.

My mum uses Ariel Bio powder and it foams up, especially with towels, even into the final rinse in her Bosch Exxcel.

I managed to buy Portuguese Persil Bio powder (made by Henkel). It foams up, but rinses quite cleanly. There seems to be a lack of zeolite which P&G uses in its detergents.

 

[aquacycle]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never assumed that clean rinsing = better rinsing. I would be more worried if all rinses ran completely clear, because that would mean nothing was being rinsed out.

Your question about final clear rinsing is difficult, especially as fabric softeners reduce suds anyway so what looks clear might not be.

Do you mind me asking why you're so concerned about this? Personally, I'm with Matt - I'd rather have efficiently washed clothes with a little bit of residue (most of which evaporates during the drying process anyway) than filthy laundry with clear rinses.

Incidentally, I've been using Almat powder for ages now and that rinses out perfectly well. Here is a video of the final rinses on cottons 60

 

[stan]

I'm in

No way trying to answer for Ben, but if you read his post # 29, he is saying that he has discovered a build up of detergent in his machine.
I supposes it's like washing dishes in a sink that never gets scrubbed out, and build up of detergent gunk forms, and you just kept washing dishes in the same sink over and over.

Since we can't see behind the perforated tub, without taking the machine apart, its hard to know when, or if there's a build up, until symptoms show up.
The ideal situation, is for clothes to be wash clean from a clean machine, AND to have a clear final second rinse. With no residue of anything.
At lest that's what I expect, and try to achieve.
Think this is what he is looking for as well ? Ben..

 

[liberatordeluxe]

@ AquaCycle Laundry should have no residue left in the clothing after rinsing which is all I am trying to achieve. You may think im obsessive but I think I am perfectly normal in not wanting harsh chemicals next to my skin. I DO NOT use fabric softener and never have as I believe it ruins your machine and is bad for sensitive skin which I have. Its basically grease with a few perfumes and just a waste of money. I have solved the rinsing issue and now wont use the gels anymore. Properly rinsed clothes is important to me otherwise I come out in a hives rash unless you have ever experienced that its not very nice!!

@ Stan am glad you understand what I was trying to achieve though I thought it was quite clear personally.

Anyway problem solved and I wont be using gels or liquid-tabs anymore back to powder for me and just liquid for the best coloured clothing.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

@ Aquacycle Ill try the Almat. Nice video by the way and love your accent

 

[paulc]

I'm wondering

if P&G gels are being phased out. All our supermarkets in Edinburgh have the gels on sale and Asda has introduced the new Bold liquid and Ariel Actilift liquid. The Bold liquid contains no OBA's. There is also apparently a new repackaged Daz liquid.

Persil also has a new version of Small and Mighty out, the green circle you can see on the bottle is the dosing ball.

http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estore/catalog/sectionpagecontainer.jsp?departmentid=1214921923725