Cold Water washing

[gizmo]

Hi Matty

I hope you weren't offended, not meaning to have a go at you.

I remember hearing many times "it's been through the wash so it's clean dirt" referring to stains that had survived a (probably cold) wash. I guess the laid back, casual Aussie attitude extend to washing.

Environmentally, cold washing is by far the best but my work clothes get greasy and I haven't yet found a cold detergent that can shift the greasy marks.

best wishes

chris

 

[lederstiefel1]

Hello to all of you!
I (or we) do wash cold now for more than two years in our SpeedQueen and never had any problems with it even on stained tablecloths as we pre-treat them with Ace (oxygene-bleach) or add oxy clean to the water. Very stubborn stains I pretreat with a weak solution of Dan Clorix (chlorine bleach) but that happens not very often. Dirty and grimy articles I pretreat with a spray (Sil) or rub on some bar-soap. Then first we prepare the suds by diluting the full amount of detergent recommended for the amount of washing and load-size completely in the lowest water-level available, switch off the machine and load the washing, pressing them down to absorb the liquid completely. Then we soak the items for 15-60 minutes, so that the highly concentrated solution can act in breaking up the dirt. After the soak we fill to the required level and let the machine run through the adequate cycle.
We use ARIEL compact powder and now for two weeks the brand new ARIEL ACTIVE COLD-WASH powder - the first cold-washing powder in Germany! For coloured items we use ARIEL COLOR LIQUID and for delicates we have PERWOLL.
We have soft water here in Leverkusen and do not suffer from built-ups of scale or so. Cheap powders we can't use as they do give poor results in cold water or will not dissolve completely in cold water.
But even we use some hot water in the machine in cold winterdays when cold water is icy-cold; unfortunately there's no hot-water outlet in German laundry rooms at all, so we have to carry 1 or 2 buckets of hot water down to the basement in wintertime from the first floor...
Usually we don't have oily or greasy items to wash and if so, we would probably give it a cycle in our German MATURA FL at 60°C or so.
Electricity has become tremendously expensive compared to other countries here in Germany - 15-20 Euro-cents/kwh is quiet normal here and there's a big discussion going on in Germany to change the law for the energy-concerns which betray the state as well as their clients as they have the monopole on electricity here. Even water is very expensive: 3,50 Euros or more are absolutely normal here for one cubicmeter (1.000 liters)!
So, you can understand why everybody tries to avoid unnescessary usage of both!

Ralf

 

[lavamat_jon]

Ralf - I'm sorry, but wouldn't it be quicker just to use a 40 to 60*C wash to get the same if not better results rather than pretreating stuff and leaving them to soak to compensate? If stuff needs pretreating and whatever if they are washed on cold, then surely that's proof that they simply don't perform as well as on warm to high temperatures?

Electricity is expensive here too, as is water, but water and electricity are both things that are essential to laundry and economising too far (cold water washes, stupidly low rinses) just ends up with poor laundry results. Economising is all good, but not when it comes to sacrificing cleaning ability. Of course it all depends on the machine too - a frontloader is going to use less energy to heat up for a hot wash than a toploader as it uses less water in the wash phase, but in my experience you generally need at least a warm wash if you want perfect results.

To all - to be honest I don't see what the problem is in using warm seeming as that is still an environmentally friendly setting but cleans better. I understand people wanting to not use hot washes, but warm washes perform great (at least with the 40*C temp on my machines), just as well as hot washes, and I don't pretreat anything yet everything comes out clean (this is using a normal does of your Ariel or Persil) from a warm wash. And last time I read the Miele manual, if I remember correctly a 40*C wash uses about half the electricity as 60*C - as little ad about 0.4kWh.

Jon

 

[oxydolfan]

Ralf, my family is from the Rheinland-Pfalz area (southwestern portion of Germany, rather near to France).

The water is as hard as rock around there! We'd almost always have to add Calgon powder to the wash water in the country (it was less so in Mannheim, where my aunt lives).

I remember Persil, Sunil, and Omo powders for the wash, along with a new addition called "Bluetenweiss" (yes, I know) that was a newer generic offering from one of the major supermarket chains. There was also a powder named Burti, that was used somewhat like many of us here would use Cheer powder (cold water, gentler on fabrics and dyes). Liquids weren't yet hip in the region I spent most of my time in.

I think Germans tend to take cost savings and (even more so) the environmental impact of housekeeping and laundering clothes far more seriously than in other places. They've almost gotten the process down to a science, and whenever I requested chlorine bleach for a specific application, I was always looked at as if I'd requested nuclear waste. So, they are hardcore.

On the other hand, it's traditional-very traditional-to use the internal heater and boil whites and colorfast items. There's a very strong sense there that your clothes really haven't been cleaned unless you've put them through very hot water.

When I was there a few years ago, I sensed a very strong aversion-still-to washing most things in anything but hot water, so this new concept of cold water washing is (I believe) forcing a lot of people to change very strongly held concepts regarding laundry, lest they feel guilty over wasting resources and/or money, which is just as much a black mark on their consciences.

(Or maybe my family is just neurotic, lol!)

It seems as though every European country has a very distinct washday culture.

I'm also fascinated how people like the Australians, Afrikaners, etc. operate vis-a-vis how their European forebears do it, in such distant lands.

 

[jonv112]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that a full tub of water in a WM during the wash cycle uses around 60-70 litres of water, and adding one cup of household bleach (5.25%) to that amount of water will add around 180-200PPM of chlorine! FWIW, the normal chlorine level for pools is around 1-3PPM, and the shock level around 10-20PPM.

 

[lederstiefel1]

Yes, Jon, you are right in saying so! But we do not use our FL very often anymore as we prefer "to bath our washing in a toploader" as we believe is more fabric friendly than tumbling with just a cup of water!
And we do our washing just in cold water in our SpeedQueen TL as we do not have hot-water taps in our basement. First we thought only to wash during summer-time our lightly soiled items in it, in cool water, but found out that even normally soiled items became clean and really stained fabrics just needed a little help by a slight extra treatment.
In my Twinnies I wash with warm water (which needs to be heated up first by the integral heater) as the wash-times are very short (Hoovermatic = 1-4 minutes per load!) and won't be able to clean with cold water.
Oxydolfan, I know the problems in areas with hard water when I lived in Andalucia/Spain to where in comparision Rheinland-Pfalz has rain-soft water - it should actually come out of the tap as sand than liquid down there! But we have soft water here and do not need any treatment than the softener that is already in it.
I never heard of "Blütenweiß" (ooooops! the computer cannot read the u with trema nor the beta-s!!)- "Bluetenweiss" must be a special brand of a supermarket chain....I believe; guess it's something like Oxyclean or SIL.
And we are very content with the new ARIEL Cold-Active Power, too!
Concerning chlorine bleach (here available under the brands "Dan Clorix" from Colgate-Palmolive and "Eau de Javelle", the french name for chlorine bleach, from WalMart; but WalMart is now closed down here!), Germans really believe it is bio-hazardous-radioactive-poison! Can't understand that as I use it frequently for cleaning the bath, in the kitchen or on really stubborn stains on whites. But I do not add it to the general wash nor use it in bigger amounts (cups wise) in the washer! Germans, especially the older ones, really make a science out of it and could not imagine to wash cold or cool - all that is resistant to high temperatures MUST be boiled here, still! What do these cranks think? If only boiling makes washing really clean, do they then run arround all in dirty clothes, as most of the modern textiles do not withstand temperatures over 40°C!?!?
And yes, traditionally the Monday was the wash-day here in Germany as you got the key to the laudry-room and the attic from your neighbour on Saturday or Sunday. So you were able to wash every third, fourth or sixth week, depending on how many appartments had to share one laundry-room that usually was situated in the basement. There were also plans, telling each party when they will have "the week", and the user before you had to hand you the keys of the cleaned rooms to you at the end of the week, to make you able to start with the soak already on Sunday in big zink-tubs for the wash-start on Monday morning, mostly before seven o'clock by liting the fire under the copper-boiler to start with the boiling of whites first. It was forbidden by law to have washing arround the house for drying or even do washing on Holy Sundays, so the earlier you started in week, the more drying-time you had and the earlier you could start with ironing, too!
Now to you Jonv112.
What do you mean with shock-level, and all these ppm? I know what ppm is - but can't see the connection to the chlorine bleach and so....?? Please do not leave me so puzzeled!! Help me to understand and let me become more intelligent! Smile!
Cheers to you all - Ralf

 

[jonv112]

A little off topic, but...

For a pool to be completely sanitary, there has to be a certain minimum amount of chlorine (specifically "Free Chlorine") in the water at all times, about 1-3PPM. This is sufficient enough to kill most of the bacteria in the water. But, there are some viruses that are resistant to these levels of chlorine, or algae that will turn the water green. So, to combat this problem, you sometimes have to "shock" the water, meaning that you increase the chlorine level using a super-dose of bleach, so that the chlorine acts like a lightning bolt, killing everything in the water.

BTW, if you have a pool, you can use regular unscented Clorox to chlorinate the pool, instead of tabs or packaged chlorine. You would be surprised at how easy it is to maintain a pool using only Bleach, Borax/Washing Soda, and Baking Soda, or BBB.

 

[neptunebob]

Watch out, Jon, you might make the people at HTH mad letting other people know about maintaining a pool with bleach. Just like "Big Oil", "Big Clorine" would not want people to know that. HTH also makes something called "Super Shock and Swim" that has an algicide. By the way, my mother uses so much bleach in white wash that our laundry room often smells like a swim meet.

 

[jonv112]

Actually, pool stores sell a more concentrated form of bleach, which was sometimes made by HTH, for people to use in their pools. Alot of commercial pools have been using bleach as a form of chlorine for decades, so it would be only a matter of time until the public started using household bleach to chlorinate too.

BTW, if you think that I cause a stir in the pool chemical industry, check out this website!

Guide to the PoolSolution's Website for Swimming Pool Owners

 

[neptunebob]

Let me guess Jon, are you a lifeguard? Were you on a swim team? Do you wear Speedos?

 

[jonv112]

Actually, I'm not any of those things. I am however going to start my Bronze courses in the Spring in order to become a lifeguard someday. I'm that kind of person who once I'm interested in something, I spend ALL of my free time researching on it, reading manuals, joining discussion, that kind of thing.

 

[lederstiefel1]

Hi Jon!
Sorry, but....I don't have a pool! I live in a rented flat as most people in Germany do!
Not many people in Germany do have pools - too bad weather here and too expensive to build and to maintain...
But thanx for the information concerning the chlorine-bleach in pools!
Ralf

 

[oxydolfan]

They closed Wal-Mart in Germany?

Did Aldi run 'em out of town?

Those pesky Albrecht brothers!!

Yes, in Germany they are very organized about "Waschstunde"; I remember the chart on the bulletin board in my aunt's building in Mannheim!

On the other hand, they have the COOLEST laundry room-on the top floor-12 flights up! There's a great seperate room filled with nothing but clotheslines, big windows and a panoramic view.

Very different from my subterranean quarters back home!

I think the Blutenweiss was a private-label brand. It most likely came from the "Edeka"....