whirlcool
Well-known member
Common Repairs
And Chromacolor, what were the most common television repairs you encountered?
And Chromacolor, what were the most common television repairs you encountered?
Color TV brand popularity - 1960's
- Thread starter whirlcool
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My 1968 New Vista Home Entertainment Center still works well, everything original.
Weird that the stereo was ss and the tv was tube and worked as two independant systems just sharing the speaker system, stereo has it's own cord and electric system and just plugged into the tv so you can't work both at one time.
New Vista Color, (all tube) has the matted (frosted) non-glare glass classic color.
Trans Vista cost more and was half ss and tube?
And to think the very next year 1969 you could purchase a RCA 2000 set that looked space age in design and no moving parts.
I have hundreds of spec sheets for all models in my RCA binders, just need to get a scanner to post them.
Weird that the stereo was ss and the tv was tube and worked as two independant systems just sharing the speaker system, stereo has it's own cord and electric system and just plugged into the tv so you can't work both at one time.
New Vista Color, (all tube) has the matted (frosted) non-glare glass classic color.
Trans Vista cost more and was half ss and tube?
And to think the very next year 1969 you could purchase a RCA 2000 set that looked space age in design and no moving parts.
I have hundreds of spec sheets for all models in my RCA binders, just need to get a scanner to post them.
HeHe..Corporate greed existed long before "Reaganomics." Probably back to the first corporation that ever was. 
We all have our pet theories, but (I think) one of the major problems with technical companies/corporations is the disturbing trend for the CEO to no longer be an engineer, but an MBA or other business major.
It seems like the beginning of most technical companies were engineers/scientist/inventors who loved their ideas and products, with a passion, and wanted to create a company to produce and distribute these. And if they made money in the process, which they hoped to, this was great.
It seems now days the CEO's main goal is to please the shareholds (and make mney for themself with bonuses) and if they manage to make a saleable product, that's OK. As long as its good enought to last through the warranty period.
Long lost is the love of research and betterment of mankind through product develop that Edison and George Westinghouse, et. al., had. Profit was desireable, but a secondary result of producing their prouducts.
It seems, starting in the late fifties early sixties, profit became the main goal and product secondary.
In the case of Neutron Jack Welch, he was a chemical engineer, forced into engineering by his dad. He didn't like it and was not good at it. Even in his biography, he tells (in a rare moment of self depreciation) of how he caused a major explosion at one of the polymer generating facilities when he was engineer at GE Plastics. He should have been fired. GE would be a different company today.
However, GE liked Welsh because he was ambitious and with his ego, he did not take "no" for an answer, they saw a managerial future for him. (If you read his bio and also read the book about GE called "Profit at Any Cost" you will be able to get a picture of the man who destroyed GE.)
Anyone who even remotely disagreed with him was verbally, and beligerantly, badgered into submission. He is described as losing his temper at the mere hint of disagreement. He would get red in the face, pound his fist on the table and verbally badger someone until he started stuttering so badly, he could barely talk.
He had a stuttering problem when he was a kid and was often teased by other kids, when he was in school, not only because of the stuttering, but because he was physically short as well. So he learned to "protect" himself by verbal abuse of others and carried this habit into the professional world. It is how he got his way with the GE board of directors. Almost everyone who was interviewed, who worked under him, hated him and few ever dared to speak up as they would be verbally abused and embarrased in front of everyone. He would then find a resourceful way to demoted, transfer or relieve that person of their duties. You did not cross "neutron" Jack and survive.
He built his ego by buying and selling companies and being a major player in the corporate world. Sold off first was HVAC, small household appliances next and then consumer electronics. His major goal, according to him, was to get GE out of manufacturing and make it into a service company. It was he who built GE Financial from almost nothing. That is why he had the Board agree to change the name of the company from, General Electric Company to GE as he did not want the company to be associated with electrical prooducts.
The one thing he didn't get by with, was changing the GE logo from the late 1800's cursive GE in a circle symbol to block letters GE (like you see on the GE Building in Corporate Headquaraters in New York. Remember the year (late 1980's) he had the block letter put on GE appliances in place of the worldwide famous logo?
There was such an outroar, from the public, that it was just about the only time Welch ever back down on anything. His ego was so strong he wanted the company to have a new logo, created by him, instead of their historic one.
It was also about this time he had the words "general electric" slowly being phased off most products. All you saw was the GE logo, usually in a corner. He said he was trying to educate the public that GE was not an electrical manufacturing company.
His goal was to transform a company, doing what it had been doing for nearly one hundred years, and phase in new finacial, insurance and service arms while phasing out many (but ot all) the electrical manufacturing arms.
We all have our pet theories, but (I think) one of the major problems with technical companies/corporations is the disturbing trend for the CEO to no longer be an engineer, but an MBA or other business major.It seems like the beginning of most technical companies were engineers/scientist/inventors who loved their ideas and products, with a passion, and wanted to create a company to produce and distribute these. And if they made money in the process, which they hoped to, this was great.
It seems now days the CEO's main goal is to please the shareholds (and make mney for themself with bonuses) and if they manage to make a saleable product, that's OK. As long as its good enought to last through the warranty period.
Long lost is the love of research and betterment of mankind through product develop that Edison and George Westinghouse, et. al., had. Profit was desireable, but a secondary result of producing their prouducts.
It seems, starting in the late fifties early sixties, profit became the main goal and product secondary.
In the case of Neutron Jack Welch, he was a chemical engineer, forced into engineering by his dad. He didn't like it and was not good at it. Even in his biography, he tells (in a rare moment of self depreciation) of how he caused a major explosion at one of the polymer generating facilities when he was engineer at GE Plastics. He should have been fired. GE would be a different company today.
However, GE liked Welsh because he was ambitious and with his ego, he did not take "no" for an answer, they saw a managerial future for him. (If you read his bio and also read the book about GE called "Profit at Any Cost" you will be able to get a picture of the man who destroyed GE.)
Anyone who even remotely disagreed with him was verbally, and beligerantly, badgered into submission. He is described as losing his temper at the mere hint of disagreement. He would get red in the face, pound his fist on the table and verbally badger someone until he started stuttering so badly, he could barely talk.
He had a stuttering problem when he was a kid and was often teased by other kids, when he was in school, not only because of the stuttering, but because he was physically short as well. So he learned to "protect" himself by verbal abuse of others and carried this habit into the professional world. It is how he got his way with the GE board of directors. Almost everyone who was interviewed, who worked under him, hated him and few ever dared to speak up as they would be verbally abused and embarrased in front of everyone. He would then find a resourceful way to demoted, transfer or relieve that person of their duties. You did not cross "neutron" Jack and survive.
He built his ego by buying and selling companies and being a major player in the corporate world. Sold off first was HVAC, small household appliances next and then consumer electronics. His major goal, according to him, was to get GE out of manufacturing and make it into a service company. It was he who built GE Financial from almost nothing. That is why he had the Board agree to change the name of the company from, General Electric Company to GE as he did not want the company to be associated with electrical prooducts.
The one thing he didn't get by with, was changing the GE logo from the late 1800's cursive GE in a circle symbol to block letters GE (like you see on the GE Building in Corporate Headquaraters in New York. Remember the year (late 1980's) he had the block letter put on GE appliances in place of the worldwide famous logo?
There was such an outroar, from the public, that it was just about the only time Welch ever back down on anything. His ego was so strong he wanted the company to have a new logo, created by him, instead of their historic one.
It was also about this time he had the words "general electric" slowly being phased off most products. All you saw was the GE logo, usually in a corner. He said he was trying to educate the public that GE was not an electrical manufacturing company.
His goal was to transform a company, doing what it had been doing for nearly one hundred years, and phase in new finacial, insurance and service arms while phasing out many (but ot all) the electrical manufacturing arms.
1986 A VERY SAD YEAR FOR RCA,
Don't know how true this rumor was but many said at the time GE got their hands caught in the cookie jar with regards to defense and other government contracts, and were banned from doing business with the government for a period.
RCA was not doing well at the time and who else had alot of government contracts...R-C-A!
So guess what, GE was back in the business again, then they decided what they wanted and sold off what they did not want.
Don't know how true this rumor was but many said at the time GE got their hands caught in the cookie jar with regards to defense and other government contracts, and were banned from doing business with the government for a period.
RCA was not doing well at the time and who else had alot of government contracts...R-C-A!
So guess what, GE was back in the business again, then they decided what they wanted and sold off what they did not want.
whirlcool
Well-known member
..with technical companies/corporations is the disturbing trend for the CEO to no longer be an engineer, but an MBA or other business major.
Yup, bottom dollar and no excuses. When this started happening these new CEO's made sure their bonuses were tied to the stock price. Want to boost it up a little? Close a factory and lay off employees. Guaranteed increase in stock price. Repeat until you have no more factories and then pull your golden parachute.
These CEO's could really care less about the products they were making, no compassion for an excellent product.
Anytime you hear a speech from a CEO and hear the words "We have a duty to make a profit for our stockholders" and you work for that company, something bad is about to happen to your job or your benefits.
Several years back the CEO of American Airlines pleaded with all the employees for pay cuts. He said the company won't be able to continue without these cuts.
A month of so later after he got the cuts from the employees he rewarded himself with a $5 million dollar bonus for getting the cuts and more bonuses for people on the BOD. The employees found out about this and almost rioted. They did an employee slow down that Thanksgiving weekend to demonstrate their unhappiness. Lots of late flights, missed connections, etc. The media took notice and eventually the CEO responsible for this was forced out of a job. Good for them.
Yup, bottom dollar and no excuses. When this started happening these new CEO's made sure their bonuses were tied to the stock price. Want to boost it up a little? Close a factory and lay off employees. Guaranteed increase in stock price. Repeat until you have no more factories and then pull your golden parachute.
These CEO's could really care less about the products they were making, no compassion for an excellent product.
Anytime you hear a speech from a CEO and hear the words "We have a duty to make a profit for our stockholders" and you work for that company, something bad is about to happen to your job or your benefits.
Several years back the CEO of American Airlines pleaded with all the employees for pay cuts. He said the company won't be able to continue without these cuts.
A month of so later after he got the cuts from the employees he rewarded himself with a $5 million dollar bonus for getting the cuts and more bonuses for people on the BOD. The employees found out about this and almost rioted. They did an employee slow down that Thanksgiving weekend to demonstrate their unhappiness. Lots of late flights, missed connections, etc. The media took notice and eventually the CEO responsible for this was forced out of a job. Good for them.
whirlcool
Well-known member
Wow, Drewz
That is one mint looking set. Smart "Danish Modern" design. In the early to late 70's our living room was decked out in this style. In 1969 they changed to plain traditional. You are only missing the avocado carpeting to put the set on.
For you TV guys out there. A guy I knew in HS parent's had bought one of the early RCA color sets, I think around 1958 or so. I noticed that when you changed the channel to an empty one, the static on the screen was even in color. But by the time we got a color set, the static was only black & white. Did the manufacturers put a color killer circuit in the sets to mute the color if not receiving a signal?
Then later on television sets won't even go to a blank channel. Our Sony set just says "Channel Not Found" and stays on the current channel.
That is one mint looking set. Smart "Danish Modern" design. In the early to late 70's our living room was decked out in this style. In 1969 they changed to plain traditional. You are only missing the avocado carpeting to put the set on.
For you TV guys out there. A guy I knew in HS parent's had bought one of the early RCA color sets, I think around 1958 or so. I noticed that when you changed the channel to an empty one, the static on the screen was even in color. But by the time we got a color set, the static was only black & white. Did the manufacturers put a color killer circuit in the sets to mute the color if not receiving a signal?
Then later on television sets won't even go to a blank channel. Our Sony set just says "Channel Not Found" and stays on the current channel.
chromacolor
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2006
- Messages
- 137
Common Repairs
Whirlcool.. when I was in repairs it was the late 70's, there were many of the earlier tube color sets on the repair route. Solid State stuff was still fairly new, so didn't see alot. Also remember that color TV was EXPENSIVE at that time and most people had 1 set, that got the hell used out of it. They literally "baked" to death.
Most repairs at that time were mainly tube related. The death knoll for a set was either a bad picture tube or a flyback failure. NOT that they couldn't be repaired, but those were the most expensive parts. Many people moved on up to a solid state set if the old set had that failure. Also.. tubes were becoming more and more expensive. Here were a few common problems by brand:
RCA - They ate up flybacks and the later tube chassis used a ton of 6GH8 tubes that were always bad. Drews.. I love your set btw.. but that was the worse chassis for flyback issues, so you're lucky mo issues. You've either got a CTC-31 or a CTC-38 chassis in that one. Trans Vista would have been the FIRST solid state RCA chassis (CTC-40)
Zenith: usually built like tanks and NEVER broke, but if they did, a pain in the ass to fix. It seemed like they would pop up with some intermittant impossible to diagnose issue.
Magnavox -- bad picture tubes, and a pain to service. Also bad flyback design
Motorola --- built by engineers. Built like tanks, but lousy picture tubes,color reproduction, and by 1980, hard to get parts for
Sylvania -- if it was a GTE set, hard to get parts for. If it was a NAP set,tricky to work on, but usually had a good picture.
ANY early Japanese color set --- HORRID HORRID HORRID. Impossible to get parts for.
We were in the Midwest --- at that time you simply bought American. The people that bought a Sears, Wards,Gambles,Western Auto usually bought them because of a charge card. Not everyone of those sets were bad. It depended who they farmed out to. So you never knew what brand you were going to be working on until you took the back off on one of those. If it wasn't a tube or some generic part, you were screwed because those retailers made it impossible for a repairman to get parts. Ya.. you could order them,wait forever, and pay thru the nose.
What kept an old set going was the lady of the house. If she loved the cabinet, hubby had to shell out the $$$ to keep that going.
Other memories.... there were a few times that we would get a complaint of a dim picture. Windex helped that if they were heavy smokers. Some people never cleaned the screen!
I also remember if a set had a poor funtioning high-voltage or color circuit, the opening credits of "The Mary Tyle Moore" would set it off, and it would overload the circuit and "bloom". Sounds nuts.. but you could have a set in the shop, have it hooked to a color generator, run the hell out of it and think you had it repaired, and a call would come in a week later, and we would get that complaint. RCA sets were the most trouble prone.
Whirlcool.. when I was in repairs it was the late 70's, there were many of the earlier tube color sets on the repair route. Solid State stuff was still fairly new, so didn't see alot. Also remember that color TV was EXPENSIVE at that time and most people had 1 set, that got the hell used out of it. They literally "baked" to death.
Most repairs at that time were mainly tube related. The death knoll for a set was either a bad picture tube or a flyback failure. NOT that they couldn't be repaired, but those were the most expensive parts. Many people moved on up to a solid state set if the old set had that failure. Also.. tubes were becoming more and more expensive. Here were a few common problems by brand:
RCA - They ate up flybacks and the later tube chassis used a ton of 6GH8 tubes that were always bad. Drews.. I love your set btw.. but that was the worse chassis for flyback issues, so you're lucky mo issues. You've either got a CTC-31 or a CTC-38 chassis in that one. Trans Vista would have been the FIRST solid state RCA chassis (CTC-40)
Zenith: usually built like tanks and NEVER broke, but if they did, a pain in the ass to fix. It seemed like they would pop up with some intermittant impossible to diagnose issue.
Magnavox -- bad picture tubes, and a pain to service. Also bad flyback design
Motorola --- built by engineers. Built like tanks, but lousy picture tubes,color reproduction, and by 1980, hard to get parts for
Sylvania -- if it was a GTE set, hard to get parts for. If it was a NAP set,tricky to work on, but usually had a good picture.
ANY early Japanese color set --- HORRID HORRID HORRID. Impossible to get parts for.
We were in the Midwest --- at that time you simply bought American. The people that bought a Sears, Wards,Gambles,Western Auto usually bought them because of a charge card. Not everyone of those sets were bad. It depended who they farmed out to. So you never knew what brand you were going to be working on until you took the back off on one of those. If it wasn't a tube or some generic part, you were screwed because those retailers made it impossible for a repairman to get parts. Ya.. you could order them,wait forever, and pay thru the nose.
What kept an old set going was the lady of the house. If she loved the cabinet, hubby had to shell out the $$$ to keep that going.
Other memories.... there were a few times that we would get a complaint of a dim picture. Windex helped that if they were heavy smokers. Some people never cleaned the screen!
I also remember if a set had a poor funtioning high-voltage or color circuit, the opening credits of "The Mary Tyle Moore" would set it off, and it would overload the circuit and "bloom". Sounds nuts.. but you could have a set in the shop, have it hooked to a color generator, run the hell out of it and think you had it repaired, and a call would come in a week later, and we would get that complaint. RCA sets were the most trouble prone.
Regarding the CBS color system, it wasn't so much bullying and outspending that put RCA into first place in the color war, it was that their system would prove to be technically superior. Remember that the FCC actually chose the CBS system as the color standard as work on electronic systems at that time weren't quite ready for prime time (groan). As field trials progressed and improvements were made it was obvious a mechanical system was not the right choice- the signals were completely incompatible with B&W broadcasts, picture brightness suffered due to brightness loss of the filters (this was pre-aluminized CRTs), size was limited to approx 10" tubes and once you went larger, the rotating color wheel grew to ridiculous proportions.
Interestingly, RCA and NBC had a bit of a chicken and egg scenario going. How could you justify the expense of color programming with a limited number of sets, and who would buy a color TV with limited programming? Knowing this, RCA worked with other manufacturers to spur development of competitors' sets, even supplying engineering sample CRTs for development. Westinghouse, Philco, Admiral, Motorola, Sylvania and the other bug guys developed their own sets using the 15” RCA tube with their own circuit designs and some of these 1954 sets exist today (big bucks and VERY rare).
But they learned what RCA did. Nobody was ready to drop a grand on a TV without a proven record and without programming. For the next 5 years, RCA stuck it out and they were really the only game in town until the technology became affordable and buyer interest began to rise. Zenith finally came on board with their own design, with others following. -Cory
Interestingly, RCA and NBC had a bit of a chicken and egg scenario going. How could you justify the expense of color programming with a limited number of sets, and who would buy a color TV with limited programming? Knowing this, RCA worked with other manufacturers to spur development of competitors' sets, even supplying engineering sample CRTs for development. Westinghouse, Philco, Admiral, Motorola, Sylvania and the other bug guys developed their own sets using the 15” RCA tube with their own circuit designs and some of these 1954 sets exist today (big bucks and VERY rare).
But they learned what RCA did. Nobody was ready to drop a grand on a TV without a proven record and without programming. For the next 5 years, RCA stuck it out and they were really the only game in town until the technology became affordable and buyer interest began to rise. Zenith finally came on board with their own design, with others following. -Cory
whirlcool
Well-known member
I just found this most interesting excerpt from a book named "Cases in Corporate Strategy". It details how the different television companies introduced and marketed their color television sets. It's right in line with the title of this thread, market share between the brands. Very interesting.
It seemed that in 63-66 the supply of color CRT's was a major problem. Several of the companies just bought their CRT's from other companies, usually RCA. But others held out for their R&D sections to develop their own. And it seemed that getting the rectangular screens was rather problematic too.
It seemed that in 63-66 the supply of color CRT's was a major problem. Several of the companies just bought their CRT's from other companies, usually RCA. But others held out for their R&D sections to develop their own. And it seemed that getting the rectangular screens was rather problematic too.
Cases in Competitive Strategy
Though the cases in Cases in Competitive Strategy may be informative when studied on their own, they are designed to be read and analyzed in combination with the companion volume, Competitive Strategy. The conceptual materials and the cases are designed to reinforce each other, showing the...
books.google.com
chromacolor
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2006
- Messages
- 137
CBS
Yep.. you nailed it Cory.
I did get to see a CBS set in operation tho. I was surprised on how fantastic the picture was, but ya.. the system RCA came up with did prove to be better for the whole industry, and RCA must have been right as it's still basically in use today. Well.. not since analog went away, but still reproduction wise.
And boy, weren't those 15" color picture tubes dogs? The color reproduction is fantastic, but the whole keeping it under vacuum issue.....
RCA came to market with that design to get a color set on the market, but many remained unsold, and usually went to RCA staff or sold at a deep discount.
Didn't RCA come out with the 21" jug a year later?
In my opinion, the best "roundie" chassis design RCA ever did was the CTC-16.
The worst one that went to market and sold in droves was the CTC-38.
Yep.. you nailed it Cory.
I did get to see a CBS set in operation tho. I was surprised on how fantastic the picture was, but ya.. the system RCA came up with did prove to be better for the whole industry, and RCA must have been right as it's still basically in use today. Well.. not since analog went away, but still reproduction wise.
And boy, weren't those 15" color picture tubes dogs? The color reproduction is fantastic, but the whole keeping it under vacuum issue.....
RCA came to market with that design to get a color set on the market, but many remained unsold, and usually went to RCA staff or sold at a deep discount.
Didn't RCA come out with the 21" jug a year later?
In my opinion, the best "roundie" chassis design RCA ever did was the CTC-16.
The worst one that went to market and sold in droves was the CTC-38.
whirlcool
Well-known member
The final run down.
According to that article, in 1966 (which was the first year that the networks had full time color telecasting here is what each companies market share was:
Brand Color Share
RCA 33%
Zenith 22%
Motorola 10%
Admiral 9%
Sears (!!) 7% Shocking!
Magnavox 6%
Sylvania 5%
Philco-Ford 3%
Interestingly enough, Zenith was the leader for B&W sets that year.
RCA was the leader in color sales 1965-69 without a doubt. And I was quite surprised that Sears Silvertone sets had that amount of share. And that Admiral made the Airline color sets that Montgomery Ward sold. Interesting to say the least.
According to that article, in 1966 (which was the first year that the networks had full time color telecasting here is what each companies market share was:
Brand Color Share
RCA 33%
Zenith 22%
Motorola 10%
Admiral 9%
Sears (!!) 7% Shocking!
Magnavox 6%
Sylvania 5%
Philco-Ford 3%
Interestingly enough, Zenith was the leader for B&W sets that year.
RCA was the leader in color sales 1965-69 without a doubt. And I was quite surprised that Sears Silvertone sets had that amount of share. And that Admiral made the Airline color sets that Montgomery Ward sold. Interesting to say the least.
For those who haven't read it..I recommend "Tube" by David and Marshall Fisher (Counterpoint Publishers, 1996)
It's the best book I havae read on the development of the tv set, to date. Not only does it talk about the technological development of b&w and color tv, but gives a fascinating background about the inventors themself.
Lot of neat trivia.
For example, the world's first televised drama, was present by General Electric, The Queen's Messenger, in 1928. The cameras used the Nipkow disk system and were so large neither the cameras or actors moved during the production. There was one actor and one actress at a table. One camera was fixed to the actors face and the other to the actress's. A third was on a "double" who did hands holding small props.
They used a receiver as a monitor and actually had devloped a fade control to fade from one camera to another.
The only problem, no one owned a tv set back then. However, reporters and journalist were invited to a building next door to the GE lab where they had a 3 inch GE receiver designed to capture the broadcast signal.
That Sept. 12, the play was aired from GE's Schenectady laboratory in New York by sending it by wire to the WGY radio station transmitter.
The New York Times first review of a televised program was not too good. Saying, "the pictures were sometimes blurred and confused."
It's the best book I havae read on the development of the tv set, to date. Not only does it talk about the technological development of b&w and color tv, but gives a fascinating background about the inventors themself.
Lot of neat trivia.
For example, the world's first televised drama, was present by General Electric, The Queen's Messenger, in 1928. The cameras used the Nipkow disk system and were so large neither the cameras or actors moved during the production. There was one actor and one actress at a table. One camera was fixed to the actors face and the other to the actress's. A third was on a "double" who did hands holding small props.
They used a receiver as a monitor and actually had devloped a fade control to fade from one camera to another.
The only problem, no one owned a tv set back then.
However, reporters and journalist were invited to a building next door to the GE lab where they had a 3 inch GE receiver designed to capture the broadcast signal.That Sept. 12, the play was aired from GE's Schenectady laboratory in New York by sending it by wire to the WGY radio station transmitter.
The New York Times first review of a televised program was not too good. Saying, "the pictures were sometimes blurred and confused."
cornutt
Well-known member
CBS color system
That started out as sort of a CBS inside joke, something they did just to tweak RCA's nose. The television networks were all anxious to begin color broadcasting, and everyone knew that RCA had a system that they were working on, but RCA didn't seem to be in any hurry to submit it to the FCC. CBS's Peter Goldmark had a system that he had invented for industrial television systems that used the spinning color wheel. It worked well with the small 3-5" monitors that were used in that application. (Decades later, the early-version Space Shuttle video cameras used the same basic system.)
So CBS submitted their system to the FCC as a proposed standard, just to try to get a rise out of RCA. Much to their surprise, the FCC took their proposal seriously, and then that got CBS thinking that they might actually have a chance of getting their system adopted. And the dollar signs started dancing in their heads, even though (as Admiral was quick to point out) a 21" set would require a 6-foot diameter wheel and a 10-amp motor to spin it, not to mention the slot that the consumer would have to cut in their living-room floor for clearance. (It would be bad if your floor joists ran the other way...) CBS got Sears to twist the arms of its two OEMs at the time to endorse their system, and it came perilously close to being adopted before everyone came to their senses. Unfortunately CBS had by this time gotten way too emotionally invested in what had started as a joke, and they went off in a huff and had nothing further to do with color broadcasting until the mid-'60s.
That started out as sort of a CBS inside joke, something they did just to tweak RCA's nose. The television networks were all anxious to begin color broadcasting, and everyone knew that RCA had a system that they were working on, but RCA didn't seem to be in any hurry to submit it to the FCC. CBS's Peter Goldmark had a system that he had invented for industrial television systems that used the spinning color wheel. It worked well with the small 3-5" monitors that were used in that application. (Decades later, the early-version Space Shuttle video cameras used the same basic system.)
So CBS submitted their system to the FCC as a proposed standard, just to try to get a rise out of RCA. Much to their surprise, the FCC took their proposal seriously, and then that got CBS thinking that they might actually have a chance of getting their system adopted. And the dollar signs started dancing in their heads, even though (as Admiral was quick to point out) a 21" set would require a 6-foot diameter wheel and a 10-amp motor to spin it, not to mention the slot that the consumer would have to cut in their living-room floor for clearance. (It would be bad if your floor joists ran the other way...) CBS got Sears to twist the arms of its two OEMs at the time to endorse their system, and it came perilously close to being adopted before everyone came to their senses. Unfortunately CBS had by this time gotten way too emotionally invested in what had started as a joke, and they went off in a huff and had nothing further to do with color broadcasting until the mid-'60s.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
"I remember those videodisc systems by RCA & Pioneer. The first time it died most people say it was because there weren't enough titles on the market, the second time there was a bunch of titles, but everyone was VHS oriented by that time."
LaserDisc (Pioneer) was probably killed off by DVD, actually. LaserDisc remained in production--both players and discs--until the DVD era sometime. It was very much of a niche format--most people went with VHS--but LaserDisc was preferred by people into high performance.
Years back, I did business with a small audio dealer. A specialist, one shop operation. The primary focus of the store was stereo, but he also was selling surround sound. (This was before home theater had become so hot.) His demonstrations ALWAYS used LaserDisc. He did not have VCR in the store--not even a store owned unit to use to demonstrate surround sound.
LaserDisc (Pioneer) was probably killed off by DVD, actually. LaserDisc remained in production--both players and discs--until the DVD era sometime. It was very much of a niche format--most people went with VHS--but LaserDisc was preferred by people into high performance.
Years back, I did business with a small audio dealer. A specialist, one shop operation. The primary focus of the store was stereo, but he also was selling surround sound. (This was before home theater had become so hot.) His demonstrations ALWAYS used LaserDisc. He did not have VCR in the store--not even a store owned unit to use to demonstrate surround sound.
philr
Well-known member
My first color TV was a 1974 GTE Sylvania GT Matic 26" solid state with "instant on" feature. I got it from my parents when they got a new RCA Colortrack in the mid eighties. It replaced my black and white RCA "Townsman Series" tube set which my aunt gave me when I was 6-7 years old. The Sylvania lasted quite a few years. I had it repaired once in the late eighties and the technician just replaced chips until he found the wrong one I remember I paid 85$ for that (I was 11 or 12 years old then!). In 1992, the colors began separating but the picture was still ok if you turned the color control to have a black and white image. I had to throw it away a few years ago as I was lacking space to keep it but I wish I'd still have it!
The oldest color TV in my family was my grandfather's 1966 JVC. He gave it to my uncle when he got a Sony Trinitron in the late seventies. My uncle still used the JVC in the late eighties. Another uncle had a Quazar Motorola set from the early seventies which wasn't solid state. I also watched a lot of TV and played video games with my cousin on this one. My parents and many friends had solid state Zenith Chromacolor TVs from the late seventies/early eighties and I didn't like the picture on them. I still have one from 1984 and it has the same strange colors as the other sets I remember from my childhood. My parents also had a Zenith TV with the "Space Phone" (pulse type, hands free phone which used remote control to dial or answer the phone) from around 1983 until a few years ago. I really liked the look of this TV and it had a stronger tuner than their RCA (we had no cable TV and both sets were connected to the same external antenna) but I preferred the picture on the RCA. You had to open the speaker doors to access the controls.
This picture shows me and my parent's 1974 Sylvania in 1979. [this post was last edited: 11/13/2011-23:41]
The oldest color TV in my family was my grandfather's 1966 JVC. He gave it to my uncle when he got a Sony Trinitron in the late seventies. My uncle still used the JVC in the late eighties. Another uncle had a Quazar Motorola set from the early seventies which wasn't solid state. I also watched a lot of TV and played video games with my cousin on this one. My parents and many friends had solid state Zenith Chromacolor TVs from the late seventies/early eighties and I didn't like the picture on them. I still have one from 1984 and it has the same strange colors as the other sets I remember from my childhood. My parents also had a Zenith TV with the "Space Phone" (pulse type, hands free phone which used remote control to dial or answer the phone) from around 1983 until a few years ago. I really liked the look of this TV and it had a stronger tuner than their RCA (we had no cable TV and both sets were connected to the same external antenna) but I preferred the picture on the RCA. You had to open the speaker doors to access the controls.
This picture shows me and my parent's 1974 Sylvania in 1979. [this post was last edited: 11/13/2011-23:41]
On CBS And RCA
CBS' ill-fated color television experiment was no joke--especially when it came to the bottom line. CBS' spinning wheel/UHF only color system died for two reasons. 1. No one was willing to chuck recently purchased incompatible B&W sets for CBS color, and NO major TV set maker (certainly not RCA) was willing to build sets using the CBS format.
2. Faced with that fact, CBS purchased what was considered a second-rate electronics maker called Hytron, and essentially slapped the CBS-Columbia name on Hytron TV's and other products. It didn't hide the fact Hytron products were mediocre; and since no one was willing to back CBS color, Hytron turned into a major money loser for the company--which was then reliant on revenues from its radio and television networks, along with Columbia Records.
As for RCA, the company's then-Chairman Thorton Bradshaw--who turned around the company by shedding it of non-electronic acquisitions (including Banquet frozen foods and Hertz rental cars), and installing the team of Grant Tinker and Brandon Tartikoff at NBC--realized by the mid-1980's, RCA without NBC could not survive because of strong competition from Japanese and Korean electronics makers, and RCA's reliance on defense contracts. He knew the only way to keep RCA intact was sell the company to another firm--which is where Jack Welsh and GE came in. Welsh wanted RCA for NBC--which became a profit machine by 1985--and had every intention of selling off other parts of RCA, including its TV manufacturing operations.
And that's exactly what happened.
CBS' ill-fated color television experiment was no joke--especially when it came to the bottom line. CBS' spinning wheel/UHF only color system died for two reasons. 1. No one was willing to chuck recently purchased incompatible B&W sets for CBS color, and NO major TV set maker (certainly not RCA) was willing to build sets using the CBS format.
2. Faced with that fact, CBS purchased what was considered a second-rate electronics maker called Hytron, and essentially slapped the CBS-Columbia name on Hytron TV's and other products. It didn't hide the fact Hytron products were mediocre; and since no one was willing to back CBS color, Hytron turned into a major money loser for the company--which was then reliant on revenues from its radio and television networks, along with Columbia Records.
As for RCA, the company's then-Chairman Thorton Bradshaw--who turned around the company by shedding it of non-electronic acquisitions (including Banquet frozen foods and Hertz rental cars), and installing the team of Grant Tinker and Brandon Tartikoff at NBC--realized by the mid-1980's, RCA without NBC could not survive because of strong competition from Japanese and Korean electronics makers, and RCA's reliance on defense contracts. He knew the only way to keep RCA intact was sell the company to another firm--which is where Jack Welsh and GE came in. Welsh wanted RCA for NBC--which became a profit machine by 1985--and had every intention of selling off other parts of RCA, including its TV manufacturing operations.
And that's exactly what happened.
Color on the BW set-not going to happen-you need the three color phospors in the CRT to make that happen and the color signal demodulation circuits in the set-sent by the chroma signal from the transmitter.And---early RCA TV transmitters-esp the Low band ones-could not pass the chroma signals.so these could broadcast monochrome only-with that most of these early transmitters went to the scrap yard.Sad-they were beautiful peices of engineering-I saw one of thewse RCA transmitters at Ch#2 in Baltimore.The unit was in emaculate condition.worked beautifully-but a monchrome signal.the power tubes used in the visual driver,PA and aural PA were an unuasual RCA water cooled internal anode glass envelope design.These haven't been made by RCA for many,many years.the station hoarded what they could get-and wanted to sell that TX for $30,000 at that time--late 70's.Now its worthless today-but good for a museam.They were so cool to see operating-all of that HOT GLASS seen through the "peek-a-boo" windows!And---RCA had a power tube divison located in Pennsylvania-forget the city-now its under the name Burl Electronics-they make power tubes still and other electronic components.and to run that old RCA transmitter-need a 208-230V 3Ph supply to run it.And places for the blowers,water pumps and heat exchangers.All of RCA's TV transmitters used high level grid modulation of a driver stage.this meant amplifying the video signal to several hundred volts.Many tube stages involved-and these need adjustment.Harris-GE transmitters used very low level modulation-the video modulator was in a low level satge-then amplified by several linear RF power amplifiers-these were inefficient-but easier to deal with.The archillees heal in GE-Harris TV tx were the screen supplies for the visual driver and PA stages-these used the 7-8Kv main HV supply and stepped it down to 1200-1800V with a bank of voltage dropping resistors and a 4CX-250 power tube acting as a series regulator.And 807 tube and OA3 tube served as the grid reference for the 4CX-250-if you had a fault in the Visual stage-like a shorted tube or screen socket cap-that regulator blew up and was a pain to rebuild.RCA transmitters used a separate 3Ph fed supplies for the screen voltage fed thru a Sola 3ph reg transformer-these were easier to fix.Mostly caps or rectifier diodes.Same thing with the RCA grid supplies.The GE's had a separate grid supply.
passatdoc
Well-known member
NBC-CBS feud
Some of it was politics, but some of it was compatibility with B&W television. By the time they were ready to roll out color tv, B&W had significant market penetration, but these sets were new (most less than five years old) and had cost a lot of money to consumers. A system that was not compatible with existing tv's was doomed to failure. The government was not going to approve a system that was incompatible with millions of sets that were acquired at great sacrifice by middle class Americans.
On the other hand, adoption of the RCA system meant that the US was stuck on a 525 line system (or whatever the resolution was) until the 2000s. On my first visit to Europe (1973, exchange student), my untrained eye immediately noted that color tv was superior in Europe, with a sharper picture. What I didn't realize was that Europe's system had over 600 lines, having been adopted in c. 1967.
Another issue was cost and lack of color programming. Color programs cost more to produce and to broadcast than B&W. An entirely separate broadcasting system devoted to the CBS color system was simply not feasible, since there was so little color programming available. At the inception, color was limited to specials like the Rose Parade or Peter Pan or the famous Ford 50th Anniversary Show (Mary Martin/Ethel Merman, etc.). The latter can be seen (in portions) on YouTube. The recording is in B&W but I understand the original was broadcast live in color (could be wrong about this).
Regular (non-specials) network prime time shows did not begin to switch to color until c. 1960. The Virginian and Bonanza were among the first to go to color. Regular network sitcoms and dramas were not all-color until 1965-67, with ABC being the last to switch. What is really illuminating is the fact that the second and third seasons of the Lucy Show (63-64 and 64-65) were filmed in color, but were broadcast (per CBS protocol) in black and white. The original viewers who saw the Lucy Show 1963-65 in prime time saw it in B&W, while the syndicated reruns were presented in color. Desilu understood that the existence of color prints of the series would boost its future value. Only the first season (62-63) remains in B&W on reruns or boxed sets.
The recent transition to all-digital broadcast tv in the USA caused much less consternation and fewer transition issues than a CBS color system would have generated. First, most cable systems convert to analog anyway, so existing analog sets work with most cable companies, either line-in or with a cable box. The only people really affected were those with rooftop or rabbit ear antennas, and a $100 digital-converter box solved problems for those who wished to continue with analog sets. $100 in 2009 terms was much less money than $200-300 spent in the early 1950s for a relatively new B&W that was about to be rendered obsolete by CBS color.
Some of it was politics, but some of it was compatibility with B&W television. By the time they were ready to roll out color tv, B&W had significant market penetration, but these sets were new (most less than five years old) and had cost a lot of money to consumers. A system that was not compatible with existing tv's was doomed to failure. The government was not going to approve a system that was incompatible with millions of sets that were acquired at great sacrifice by middle class Americans.
On the other hand, adoption of the RCA system meant that the US was stuck on a 525 line system (or whatever the resolution was) until the 2000s. On my first visit to Europe (1973, exchange student), my untrained eye immediately noted that color tv was superior in Europe, with a sharper picture. What I didn't realize was that Europe's system had over 600 lines, having been adopted in c. 1967.
Another issue was cost and lack of color programming. Color programs cost more to produce and to broadcast than B&W. An entirely separate broadcasting system devoted to the CBS color system was simply not feasible, since there was so little color programming available. At the inception, color was limited to specials like the Rose Parade or Peter Pan or the famous Ford 50th Anniversary Show (Mary Martin/Ethel Merman, etc.). The latter can be seen (in portions) on YouTube. The recording is in B&W but I understand the original was broadcast live in color (could be wrong about this).
Regular (non-specials) network prime time shows did not begin to switch to color until c. 1960. The Virginian and Bonanza were among the first to go to color. Regular network sitcoms and dramas were not all-color until 1965-67, with ABC being the last to switch. What is really illuminating is the fact that the second and third seasons of the Lucy Show (63-64 and 64-65) were filmed in color, but were broadcast (per CBS protocol) in black and white. The original viewers who saw the Lucy Show 1963-65 in prime time saw it in B&W, while the syndicated reruns were presented in color. Desilu understood that the existence of color prints of the series would boost its future value. Only the first season (62-63) remains in B&W on reruns or boxed sets.
The recent transition to all-digital broadcast tv in the USA caused much less consternation and fewer transition issues than a CBS color system would have generated. First, most cable systems convert to analog anyway, so existing analog sets work with most cable companies, either line-in or with a cable box. The only people really affected were those with rooftop or rabbit ear antennas, and a $100 digital-converter box solved problems for those who wished to continue with analog sets. $100 in 2009 terms was much less money than $200-300 spent in the early 1950s for a relatively new B&W that was about to be rendered obsolete by CBS color.
passatdoc
Well-known member
1960s color tv prices
Thank you bwoods for posting the GE price list. I seem to remember that the Porta Color was the first color tv sold for $200, so I wonder how the price list---apparently for 23" models---shows tv's priced as low as $200.
Our first color set was a 19" table top model that came with a cart, won in a Lions Club raffle when my father bought the tickets he failed to sell to others. He promptly forgot about the tickets, but one night when he and I returned from a hockey game, my mother told us she'd gotten a call from the tv retailer to "come and pick up the tv that you won" and in her station wagon tailgate sat the new set.
I remember checking prices of the set we won at that time and it seemed to go for $350 at most retailers. That was like $2500 today.
Thank you bwoods for posting the GE price list. I seem to remember that the Porta Color was the first color tv sold for $200, so I wonder how the price list---apparently for 23" models---shows tv's priced as low as $200.
Our first color set was a 19" table top model that came with a cart, won in a Lions Club raffle when my father bought the tickets he failed to sell to others. He promptly forgot about the tickets, but one night when he and I returned from a hockey game, my mother told us she'd gotten a call from the tv retailer to "come and pick up the tv that you won" and in her station wagon tailgate sat the new set.
I remember checking prices of the set we won at that time and it seemed to go for $350 at most retailers. That was like $2500 today.
Admiral made the Airline color sets that Montgomery Ward sol
Allen, thanks for the run-down on who made what for who.
I thought that Admiral color set in post #89 bore a remarkable resemblance to our 1962 Airline black & white, shown in the picture below, taken from the product literature for the set. I'm thinking Wards may not have yet offered color sets in 1962. I suppose that by 1962, Admiral was as close to the inferiority of Norge as Wards could get for their TV vendor.
This particular Airline was too early for the tilt-out controls, but they were located in the same area. The top right "drawer" on the cabinet actually slid down to reveal the controls.
Leave it to Wards to use something as awful (and yet colorful) as the image of a clown to show off their B&W televisions.
Allen, thanks for the run-down on who made what for who.
I thought that Admiral color set in post #89 bore a remarkable resemblance to our 1962 Airline black & white, shown in the picture below, taken from the product literature for the set. I'm thinking Wards may not have yet offered color sets in 1962. I suppose that by 1962, Admiral was as close to the inferiority of Norge as Wards could get for their TV vendor.
This particular Airline was too early for the tilt-out controls, but they were located in the same area. The top right "drawer" on the cabinet actually slid down to reveal the controls.
Leave it to Wards to use something as awful (and yet colorful) as the image of a clown to show off their B&W televisions.
