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Unimatic1140

Unimatic1140

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Let’s face it, the reason this website was created was to give a face to our interest and hobby of washing machines, dryers and dishwashers. While most posts in the Super Forum are generally benign there has been a lot of posts over the years that cause escalations and cause my email inbox to fill up with complaints. While 99% of the time I look the other way, many times I roll my eyes reading Super Forum threads (the ones I actually read) thinking that they are inappropriate for the general content of this website. Also some of the posts not only are inappropriate for the website, but are inappropriate for the children that might have an interest in washers and stumble upon the site and we do want to encourage the younger generations to enjoy this hobby as well. I would just hate to think that a 14 year old who loves washers as much as I do would have his parents say he was not allowed to read this website because of stuff on the Super Forum <br
So with that said here is what I propose to do:<ul
<li>The Super Forum will become a members only forum. Anyone will be able to read and post in the Imperial and Deluxe forums but not the Super Forum
<li>Super Forum members must be 18 years old or older to join
<li>The Super Forum will be un-moderated and posts will only be deleted/closed in the most extreme cases (so extreme to the point that it should only happen once every five years)
<li>Members will be able to read and reply to all postings, non-members will only be able to read the Super Forum’s Yellow Index page but will not be able to read or respond to the actual Threads
<li>Since the thread titles will be available to the general public to read we will come up with a list of words that get replaced on the Index Page with *&%$ and then the real word used will show up on the title inside the thread
<li>The Super Forum threads and posts will be blocked from appearing in search engines such as Google or Yahoo
<li>In Super Forum posts the "Report post to webmaster" button will only send me an email, no matter how many members click on it, no posting will ever be automatically deleted
<li>The Super Forum will be open to any member of the Super Forum, members will not be banned
<li>The Super Forum new banner will read something like <br
<I>The Super Discussions Forum for topics relating to all other off topic discussion such as laundry detergents and additives, other appliances large and small, electronics, politics, religion, daily life issues or anything else you would like to discuss. The Super Forum can get quite heated and/or racy at times, read these postings at your own risk</I <br
<li>A fee based (such as .99 cents per month) Pay-Pal Subscriptions will be implemented to become a member <br
I'm open everyone's thoughts and feedback on this.
 
Robert, I think you have proposed a solution here that is fair and equitable to everyone. As a 'Members Only' forum, you will reduce the risk of offending the general public while keeping the spirit of this community alive and well.
I don't weigh in to discussions in Super forum often but I feel it should somehow be preserved to allow the community a place to express their opinions and ideas.
Kudos to you, sir!
 
Why do all the security work to block what can/cannot be seen? Just have it completely blocked and only available to paying members. If someone is so curious to want to see what goes on, let them pay for a single month and judge for themselves whether or not they want to participate.
 
"Why do all the security work to block what can/cannot be seen? Just have it completely blocked and only available to paying members. If someone is so curious to want to see what goes on, let them pay for a single month and judge for themselves whether or not they want to participate."

Programatically it will be easier to do it the way I described.
 
Robert, I think if someone does not post or behave appropriately, they should be terminated from the club.

I personally do not have a problem paying a fee, but then this is defeating the whole purpose of what the club started out as. I am sure a lot of other members do not have a problem paying a fee either. But the Super Forum is a great place to bring nice things to the table, recipes, picture threads etc. NOT politics, religion, or arguing. I think this may just add more fuel to the fire if you know what I mean.

This is just my opinion.

I will go with what you want.
 
Is there no way of just making a "Hot Topics" (politics/religion etc) forum like they do over there on gardenweb so all the smalls and recipes etc don't have to be tainted with it either. With a zero tolerance for it in the 3 regular forums.
 
I have to admire your patience Robert

when it all gets a bit (or a lot) heated when the kids dont play nice in the playground!

In principle I agree with your proposal but would suggest you keep "Super" available to all BUT that it is strictly appliance related - to include the wonderful kitchen & home restorations, refrigeration & ranges, small appliances, vacuums, TV, Radio and other audio equipment and cleaning/laundry products. And recipies of course! Basically anthing would could be of wider interest to an appliance collector.

I would suggest that you create a fourth forum if possible - "Soapbox" where political and other views can be aired and shared - I would simply keep this limited to paying members as you describe with them clearly accepting terms that the views expressed in posts are of the persons making the posts, exercising their democratic right to free speech, and not the views of automaticwasher.org in general.

That way, those of us who are only interested in appliance related stuff can avoid the "soapbox"

Finally, I do not agree with your $.99 membership fee - it is WAY too LOW! As others have already acknowledged you have created and maintained this corner of cyberspace for us at your own cost and, personally, I do not think it unreasonable for you to be compensated for the web space useage at the very LEAST. Personally I would gladly pay $10.00 annually (actually I would pay more, but I want to keep it reasonable for for others), even if I never looked at "Soapbox"
And as the other three threads, clearly focussed on appliances, would still be available "free to air" so to speak, then for those for whom $10 could be a problem, they can still make their valuable contributions.

Thanks once again for all your efforts
Al
 
The fur will fly!

Great Idea Robert.

I'm in. Less babysitting for you if you don't have to establish rules and enforcement.

Nicer even is that the new and improved will not be searchable by Google and such, and not be archived. (But I will still behave!)
 
I think Al has a nice suggestion. A fourth forum for only the heated discussions and perhaps some less heated that don't have anything to do with appliances. It would make discussions about detergents, blenders and whatever still free available to everyone. What would a washing machine forum be without talking about detergent. If you make people pay for discussions about such items they might end up in the wrong forum because non-members of the super forum might still want to take part in such discussions.

I'm all for a separate part for political discussions etc. We are a special group and a lot of us want to share opinions on non-appliance related topics. Members will have a choice, be a member and run the risk of being annoyed or keep out of it.

Al, Robert was suggesting 0.99 per month, not per year. As from another continent and not using Paypal a lot and not sure if Paypal let me do automatic payments I would prefer to pay an annual fee. A choice of various payments would be great I think.

And for the rest, Robert, you really are a doll for still keeping this website online despite all the time and energy it costs you. I wouldn't want another webmaster than you.

Louis
 
I agree with the others. Keep the 3 forums for what they're supposed to be for, and create another for all the folks that want to discuss sex, politics etc and let them pay for it. Or just get rid of the Super Forum altogether.
 
What I actually wanted to say is that a fourth forum (with just a small button I might suggest instead of the larger ones on the Discuss-O-Mat) makes it still possible for people on a low income to discuss about fridges, ranges, hoods, detergents, blenders, mixers etc. etc. Call me a socialist!
 
I agree...

I like the idea of a fourth forum for the 'hot' topics. The Soapbox... I like it as there are those of us who post Super forum topics like ranges, refrig's, blenders and those wonderful food topics. Otherwise, the rules you propose are fair and ok with me as applied to a fourth forum. Thank you, Robert!

RCD
 
Discuss-o-Matt

My 10cents would be to keep the yellow forum as described when you set it up...
"
The Super Discussions Forum for topics relating to all laundry detergents and additives, old and new, as well as off topic. conversations such as other vintage appliances and vintage electronics, etc."

Like members here have said, I know for a fact that senior people in organisations, as well as schools and media PR access these pages, along with families & joe public!!!....at the same time I cringe every time I see some of the stuff thats gets discussed....

And if you really want to set up a 4th area for all other discusions let members pay for your work and charge accordingly, not peanuts, make it worthwhile....but seriously I think you`re causing yourself a whole load of heartache with that one!!!
 
robert, you are the one who

puts his time and money into this site, it's your site, i would do it however YOU want! you have the vision of what you want the site to include and make possible.

personally i wouldn't even have a forem for 'non appliance related' topics but that's just me. and i'm a guy who only goes to the mailbox once a month or less, has no cell phone, and rarely even answers his house phone! i'm not the most "social" being anymore so i'm not into chat rooms, discussion forems and all that. i find discussions of politics, religion, and gay rights and non gay rights all completely boring! and i'm a gay as they come!

like said before i'm here for the appliances! and i agree 100% about your views on kids visiting the site. i would have loved this had we had it when i was a kid! the closest thing i had was an occasional magazine ad or brochure.

and i'm all for a membership fee too! i would make it 5 bucks a month. that's less than a porn site! if we can afford to buy em, ship em, fix em, and scour the web for parts we can easily afford to give you 5 bucks a month to help keep the site running! it would offset your expenses and keep the general site open and fee for anyone who may want to visit.

it's a great site, i'm sure you'll get it all worked out the way you want it!
 
Robert, the fact that you are even willing to go to the trouble is something I really appreciate. You don't need to be spending the time and energy to accommodate those of us who can get carried away sometimes. I am, however, leaning towards a 4th forum for the hot topics rather than having the G-rated off-topic items lumped in with more heated discussions but truly, whatever is easiest for you. What you are doing is beyond gracious.

Ralph
 
Love the idea of splitting Super into 2 forums, the new Super and the SoapBox. I would gladly pay $12 a year for access, maybe more, even though I'm more interested in the non-soapbox forums.

Even though it would be harder to implement, I like the idea of having the SoapBox forum completely closed to non members. If we are concerned about putting our best foot forward, lets keep our unmentionables in our pants, so to speak. I'd bet anyone underage would be able to suss out the meaning of any word that was obscured. I tend to think that the tone is sometimes worse than the words themselves.

I would love to see some sort of "tag" in the existing forums, so that you could choose a "type" of post. Look at fark.com for example. In the New Super forum, you could scan down the list of posts and see them tagged as things like Recipes, Small Appliance, Detergents, and so on. In the other forums, how about New Toy, Found For Sale, Help! and so on?

I know. I am full of ideas that make work for Robert. I like the site any old way he sets it up, for what its worth. :-)

Also, PayPal is pretty flexible as a payment proccessor. You can use it like a virtual credit card terminal, if you have the right type of account, so Robert would have a lot of flexibilty setting up payments and subscriptions. Also, you don't have to be a member of PayPal to submit a payment, you can use use a credit card.
 
I Favour:

The "fourth forum" idea, if these types of posts are to continue.

I think we saw - very clearly - the other day that the best-planned and best-intentioned ideas can have unintended consequences. The unintended consequence I see in the proposed fee-based Super forum is that those who want to scorch others' eyeballs will be even more free and more prone to do it, because they'll be able - with justification - to say that they've paid for the privilege. Once fees are collected, I think it will be hard to enforce much if any decorum.

And a fee-based Super forum also does not resolve something that is a problem for some members here - some of us would prefer fellowship to confrontation or sexual content. As I said recently in another thread, if one wants political discussion, the Internet is chock-a-block with places designed expressly for that. But there is only one AutomaticWasher.org.

If political, religious or "adult" content is to be permitted here, then I think a "Soapbox" forum is the most equitable solution, balancing the desires of those who want such discussion with the desires of those of us who could, quite frankly, do without it.

I also question why such content has to be permitted at all. As we've seen, it's divisive, it can get very heated, personal and nasty, and it's not permitted on some other hobby sites that are similar to AW. AntiqueRadio.com's forums are very clearly and explicitly headed with notices saying "No political or religious discussion." The same site also has a "Forum Rules/FAQ" section where the following is clearly posted:

No discussions about religion or politics.

This is a family friendly site, no profanity or adult images. Profanity is not permitted even when "obscured" with asterisks or misspellings.

Please don't respond to flamebait -- posts that are intended merely to inflame the passions of others.

Now, it seems to me that if you can get a bunch of straight guys (the membership at AntiqueRadios.com seems to be primarily het, male and over 40), to forego their beloved dirty jokes, political flame wars and porn links, then it ought to be possible to come up with something around here that would make this site more family-friendly.

I would also like to point out that in the thread which caused so much of this flashover here, you asked one member not to post certain types of material. In very short order, profanity had appeared in that thread, and another political thread had been posted - both by other members, it's true, but I think it shows that individual discretion isn't working around here.

Also, we have some members who seem to think it's their "right" to behave exactly as they please, with no constraints. I think it's time to enlighten those individuals as to the legal concepts behind privately held webspace, where the owner of a site makes the rules. It's exactly the same as going into someone's private house - yes, you have the right of free speech, but if Grandma says "no cussing in my house" her right to set the rules within her domain takes precedence. Grandma does not have to tolerate the cussing nor the offender - she is within her rights to ask someone to stop cussing, or to leave, for breaking the rules of her domain. You're on her turf, not out in public, nor in your own home. This website is Robert's domain, and we all post here at his discretion, so long as his rules do not discriminate on commonly prohibited grounds. Ask a lawyer if you don't believe me.

So, my thought would be either - a Soapbox forum where people who need politics or raciness can have at it, or a simple ban on such stuff altogether. Nobody ever died from having to behave themselves at a special event, and a special event is the way I'd like to see AW treated.
 
Lots of good ideas, but

Sorry guys, doing what I stated above will take about 20-25 hours of work. Creating a entire fourth forum that maybe 10 people will use will be 70-80 hours of work.

The point of this website is stated on the home page: "The website, cyber-library and discussion forum dedicated to automatic clothes washing machines, dryers and dishwashers, collectors of antique and vintage Automatics, as well as anyone who likes to do laundry and dishes Automatically!"

Anything else is really off topic.

What I could do is come up with a color coding system or use icon's that one can categorize their post on the Yellow Index list as to what the subject matter is. That way if there are certain subjects that you don't want to be bothered with you can tell right away by the list icon or color whether its best that you dare click on it or not.

So I'm open to ideas, but the ideas need to be based around a three forum group.

Louis, I'll have to think about ways possible ways around Paypal, but I don't want to make this an administrative nightmare for me.
 
Just speaking for myself

I guess I am not in favor of this as I have never really understood the need for this site and its 955 members, most of whom have never met each other to ramble on about politics, religion, big dicks/hot men and all of the other topics that cause a stir and get out of hand every few weeks here. There are plenty of site specific blogs and websites that deal with these issues directly so what is the point? I engage in all of those conversations myself but with friends, family and people I interact with and know. All of the bitching about politics has not turned any republicans to democrats, usually only cause hard feelings because we expect people we haven't met to see things our way. Some have left the club because of this kind of behavior. Can't this site be just about our hobby of vintage appliances? I think the extra forum is a liscense for even worse behavior than what we have seen and it would take on a life of its own that is not at all in line with the rest of the site. Since history in applianceville has proven to host some nutty residents, no ref in the arena could even prove dangerous as we don't really know what people are capable of if things got out of hand in a forum that wasn't monitored. I have no issues with a fee and feel we should pay one anyhow to help defer the costs. Just my two cents worth.
 
BTW, what about a forum on a Google or Yahoo group for really off topic issues. A link to that group when preselected those topics would give new users the possibility of signing up easily. We had a similar thing in the past. It would keep the discussions that you don't want to see here off the website completely. And discussion of related topics like blenders and detergents would still be available for everybody and there is much less work for you. I would advise using Google groups, they seem to be a bit more liberal than Yahoo groups. And we might need that for certain discussions...!
 
Oooh Ooooh me again...
In light of you not being able to easily create a fourth category then I'm totally totally in favor of banning all political/religious talk. You've now got the "report this post" button for the few zealots here who can't resist.

I mean most of us aint dummies, we have our tv's on or watch blogs etc so it's not like anything political or a religious scandal reported here is news.

It would be kinda of a nice escape from all that crap.
 
If you get rid of the Super forum altogether, I wouldn't miss it in the slightest. Oh, I do make a post now and then, but for the most part it is not where my interests lie.

From the beginning, the Super forum allowed all sort and sundry of "invaders" into our "club" who really didn't have the slightest interest in Automatic Washers, or were just psyco enough to try to convince us that they did.
To the detriment of the site overall, many really good "members" ( in particular heterosexuals and females) have left the "club" completely, or simply don't post anymore. These were/are good people, and their knowledge of appliances cannot be replaced. Many are gone for good. Their wonderful enthusiasm extinguished by needless toxic banter. A real shandeh.

In the "old days" those of us in the "club" used to argue every now and then, however it (almost) never escalated into the type of toxic personal attacks that have become the "norm" on the website now. We used to apologize to each other and move on if anyone got upset. Lately, and unfortunately, sometimes one has to fight fire with fire and then even people who would not ordinarily be offended become upset. IMO it's just not worth it for the benefit of the "club".

I have believed all along that the fair thing to do for the person doing the work of maintaining the website is to provide some sort of monetary compensation. I belong to other websites that do so and it is no big deal. Most of them are along the lines of $15.00 a quarter, and for something I am really interested in, it is easier and cheaper than another magazine coming into the house.

IMO, rather than create another forum to attract even more psycos and freaks to our "club" it would be better to create a whole new website for them if you should be so motivated. That way they will have what they really want--- which is a way to voice their agenda. Clearly many of them have been "run off" from other websites because of the same reasons they have caused all the troubles here. I just do not believe they need to be a part of our Automatic Washer group at all.

My two shekels.
 
I agree why not just BAN

Religon and Politics post. that what causes most all the trouble anyway.
 
I agree with the Sudsman here...

Because I wanted to write a post about a mid century building here in Pittsburgh and efforts to preserve it that I think people here might be interested in but now they will never know. There are some things that are related to washers and dryers but not directly about them that we would like to know about.

Also, could more subjects maybe go on the Deluxe forum?
 
Gardenweb.com
There are 3 main sections Garden forums, Home forums and Nature forums but hidden in the Garden forums (alphabetized) section is "Hot Topics" where most anything political/religious is discussed.

And there are some prolific and talented/knowledgable scribblers (lib & cons) in there so you have to be in tune otherewise they'll chew you up and spit you out.. Great place if you really want that sort of stuff.

So really anyone with that sort of bent can well waste their energies there as just one example

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/hottopics/
 
My suggestion for a Google group for political topics etc. makes the political discussions go away from this website. Members will be able to be in touch about such topics, but it will not be visible for people visiting this site. People have to sign up for it, Robert has much less work, threads that still come up with such topics can be removed with a good reason.

I think about everyone gets his way with this suggestion.

As for a donating a contribution to this website I think a button on the home page would be a good idea.
 

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