Coming Eventually, the New and "Improved" Super Forum

[danemodsandy]

I Favour:

The "fourth forum" idea, if these types of posts are to continue.

I think we saw - very clearly - the other day that the best-planned and best-intentioned ideas can have unintended consequences. The unintended consequence I see in the proposed fee-based Super forum is that those who want to scorch others' eyeballs will be even more free and more prone to do it, because they'll be able - with justification - to say that they've paid for the privilege. Once fees are collected, I think it will be hard to enforce much if any decorum.

And a fee-based Super forum also does not resolve something that is a problem for some members here - some of us would prefer fellowship to confrontation or sexual content. As I said recently in another thread, if one wants political discussion, the Internet is chock-a-block with places designed expressly for that. But there is only one AutomaticWasher.org.

If political, religious or "adult" content is to be permitted here, then I think a "Soapbox" forum is the most equitable solution, balancing the desires of those who want such discussion with the desires of those of us who could, quite frankly, do without it.

I also question why such content has to be permitted at all. As we've seen, it's divisive, it can get very heated, personal and nasty, and it's not permitted on some other hobby sites that are similar to AW. AntiqueRadio.com's forums are very clearly and explicitly headed with notices saying "No political or religious discussion." The same site also has a "Forum Rules/FAQ" section where the following is clearly posted:

No discussions about religion or politics.

This is a family friendly site, no profanity or adult images. Profanity is not permitted even when "obscured" with asterisks or misspellings.

Please don't respond to flamebait -- posts that are intended merely to inflame the passions of others.

Now, it seems to me that if you can get a bunch of straight guys (the membership at AntiqueRadios.com seems to be primarily het, male and over 40), to forego their beloved dirty jokes, political flame wars and porn links, then it ought to be possible to come up with something around here that would make this site more family-friendly.

I would also like to point out that in the thread which caused so much of this flashover here, you asked one member not to post certain types of material. In very short order, profanity had appeared in that thread, and another political thread had been posted - both by other members, it's true, but I think it shows that individual discretion isn't working around here.

Also, we have some members who seem to think it's their "right" to behave exactly as they please, with no constraints. I think it's time to enlighten those individuals as to the legal concepts behind privately held webspace, where the owner of a site makes the rules. It's exactly the same as going into someone's private house - yes, you have the right of free speech, but if Grandma says "no cussing in my house" her right to set the rules within her domain takes precedence. Grandma does not have to tolerate the cussing nor the offender - she is within her rights to ask someone to stop cussing, or to leave, for breaking the rules of her domain. You're on her turf, not out in public, nor in your own home. This website is Robert's domain, and we all post here at his discretion, so long as his rules do not discriminate on commonly prohibited grounds. Ask a lawyer if you don't believe me.

So, my thought would be either - a Soapbox forum where people who need politics or raciness can have at it, or a simple ban on such stuff altogether. Nobody ever died from having to behave themselves at a special event, and a special event is the way I'd like to see AW treated.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Lots of good ideas, but

Sorry guys, doing what I stated above will take about 20-25 hours of work. Creating a entire fourth forum that maybe 10 people will use will be 70-80 hours of work.

The point of this website is stated on the home page: "The website, cyber-library and discussion forum dedicated to automatic clothes washing machines, dryers and dishwashers, collectors of antique and vintage Automatics, as well as anyone who likes to do laundry and dishes Automatically!"

Anything else is really off topic.

What I could do is come up with a color coding system or use icon's that one can categorize their post on the Yellow Index list as to what the subject matter is. That way if there are certain subjects that you don't want to be bothered with you can tell right away by the list icon or color whether its best that you dare click on it or not.

So I'm open to ideas, but the ideas need to be based around a three forum group.

Louis, I'll have to think about ways possible ways around Paypal, but I don't want to make this an administrative nightmare for me.

 

[jetaction]

Just speaking for myself

I guess I am not in favor of this as I have never really understood the need for this site and its 955 members, most of whom have never met each other to ramble on about politics, religion, big dicks/hot men and all of the other topics that cause a stir and get out of hand every few weeks here. There are plenty of site specific blogs and websites that deal with these issues directly so what is the point? I engage in all of those conversations myself but with friends, family and people I interact with and know. All of the bitching about politics has not turned any republicans to democrats, usually only cause hard feelings because we expect people we haven't met to see things our way. Some have left the club because of this kind of behavior. Can't this site be just about our hobby of vintage appliances? I think the extra forum is a liscense for even worse behavior than what we have seen and it would take on a life of its own that is not at all in line with the rest of the site. Since history in applianceville has proven to host some nutty residents, no ref in the arena could even prove dangerous as we don't really know what people are capable of if things got out of hand in a forum that wasn't monitored. I have no issues with a fee and feel we should pay one anyhow to help defer the costs. Just my two cents worth.

 

[foraloysius]

Using Paypal is alright, but just not by automatic payment. I don't think it's a possibility on my credit card.

 

[foraloysius]

BTW, what about a forum on a Google or Yahoo group for really off topic issues. A link to that group when preselected those topics would give new users the possibility of signing up easily. We had a similar thing in the past. It would keep the discussions that you don't want to see here off the website completely. And discussion of related topics like blenders and detergents would still be available for everybody and there is much less work for you. I would advise using Google groups, they seem to be a bit more liberal than Yahoo groups. And we might need that for certain discussions...!

 

[petek]

Oooh Ooooh me again...
In light of you not being able to easily create a fourth category then I'm totally totally in favor of banning all political/religious talk. You've now got the "report this post" button for the few zealots here who can't resist.

I mean most of us aint dummies, we have our tv's on or watch blogs etc so it's not like anything political or a religious scandal reported here is news.

It would be kinda of a nice escape from all that crap.

 

[gyrafoam]

If you get rid of the Super forum altogether, I wouldn't miss it in the slightest. Oh, I do make a post now and then, but for the most part it is not where my interests lie.

From the beginning, the Super forum allowed all sort and sundry of "invaders" into our "club" who really didn't have the slightest interest in Automatic Washers, or were just psyco enough to try to convince us that they did.
To the detriment of the site overall, many really good "members" ( in particular heterosexuals and females) have left the "club" completely, or simply don't post anymore. These were/are good people, and their knowledge of appliances cannot be replaced. Many are gone for good. Their wonderful enthusiasm extinguished by needless toxic banter. A real shandeh.

In the "old days" those of us in the "club" used to argue every now and then, however it (almost) never escalated into the type of toxic personal attacks that have become the "norm" on the website now. We used to apologize to each other and move on if anyone got upset. Lately, and unfortunately, sometimes one has to fight fire with fire and then even people who would not ordinarily be offended become upset. IMO it's just not worth it for the benefit of the "club".

I have believed all along that the fair thing to do for the person doing the work of maintaining the website is to provide some sort of monetary compensation. I belong to other websites that do so and it is no big deal. Most of them are along the lines of $15.00 a quarter, and for something I am really interested in, it is easier and cheaper than another magazine coming into the house.

IMO, rather than create another forum to attract even more psycos and freaks to our "club" it would be better to create a whole new website for them if you should be so motivated. That way they will have what they really want--- which is a way to voice their agenda. Clearly many of them have been "run off" from other websites because of the same reasons they have caused all the troubles here. I just do not believe they need to be a part of our Automatic Washer group at all.

My two shekels.

 

[sudsman]

I agree why not just BAN

Religon and Politics post. that what causes most all the trouble anyway.

 

[neptunebob]

I agree with the Sudsman here...

Because I wanted to write a post about a mid century building here in Pittsburgh and efforts to preserve it that I think people here might be interested in but now they will never know. There are some things that are related to washers and dryers but not directly about them that we would like to know about.

Also, could more subjects maybe go on the Deluxe forum?

 

[petek]

Gardenweb.com
There are 3 main sections Garden forums, Home forums and Nature forums but hidden in the Garden forums (alphabetized) section is "Hot Topics" where most anything political/religious is discussed.

And there are some prolific and talented/knowledgable scribblers (lib & cons) in there so you have to be in tune otherewise they'll chew you up and spit you out.. Great place if you really want that sort of stuff.

So really anyone with that sort of bent can well waste their energies there as just one example

Loading…

forums.gardenweb.com

 

[foraloysius]

My suggestion for a Google group for political topics etc. makes the political discussions go away from this website. Members will be able to be in touch about such topics, but it will not be visible for people visiting this site. People have to sign up for it, Robert has much less work, threads that still come up with such topics can be removed with a good reason.

I think about everyone gets his way with this suggestion.

As for a donating a contribution to this website I think a button on the home page would be a good idea.

 

[vacbear58]

Me again

Robert
As I am not a programmer I had no idea another forum would take as much time, and to be frank about it I do not think even 20-25 hours of your time is acceptable - that is almost three days work! Kind of you to think of it though.

Is there maybe a simpler solution? Simply add some text both to the Super forum heading and the Create a Thread heading reminding users that threads or comments of a politicial or sexual nature are not welcomed and, as it is a public forum, please moderate your language. It might be worth adding some more catagories to to Create A Thread such as Home Entertainment Systems, Renovations, Meets and remove "Other Non-Appliance Related Topics" which may help avoid contentious postings.

I am not saying this will work but it may help and hopefully be easier for you and you can see how it goes. I would hate to see Super gone entirely because there are so many threads raised which I find of interest which are outside the pure realm of laundry and dishwashing - too many to number.

HOWEVER I am still up for subscription, even voluntary, to support this informative and entertaining resource
Al

 

[panthera]

I'll do whatever Robert wants

these, however, are my suggestions.

1) Robert should let us know what the programming time would cost and, if and when enough of us have agreed to pay the price (and have paid), then he should decide to go ahead with the programming. He already put quite a bit of time into the '' button, never mind the enormous work that went into this site and running it.
2) I have no problem with Super being limited to specific topics, if Robert wants to drop any other discussions, fine with me.
3) I will be happy to pay a membership fee and like his suggestions.

 

[aquarius1984]

Well not that im ungrateful for anything this website has to offer and infact it and Robert should be due some serious gratitude from Me.

However I do feel really let down by the issues recently that has caused problems.

I feel its unfair to start charging ordinary well behaved folk subscriptions for the privilege of talking about..

"laundry detergents and additives, old and new, as well as off topic. conversations such as other vintage appliances and vintage electronics, etc." "

when to be honest the problem causers wont even subscribe themselves to it anyway.

Payment will be a major issue for us over waters especially on a regular basis and what I find frustrating is changing a multinational forum bringing people from all walks of life into an American forum that nobody else can involve themselves in.

How boring will it be then?

As I have already said I do appreciate all the hard work that has gone into this site and I hate to see it filled with so much hassle. Just explaining in a bit more detail from my own personal feeling but wholly backing what ChesterMike feels.

Like Vacbear also points out there are other safe topics like recipes birthdays and even when cries for help go out from members in distress that we still need to be able to contribute and maintain slots for.
This site has brought far too many people together in times of crisis and happiness to remove any trace for the future.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Don't worry about the hours I don't mind doing 20-25 hours of occasional work because it wont be all at once. I'm constantly tinkering with the code of this website anyway.

I do want to avoid the 70 hour project because to add a fourth forum the changes would have to be so major that it would open up the Imperial and Deluxe forum to possible bugs that would have to be ironed out. I want to avoid that if at all possible.

It seems though as more people want to see the allowed topics in the Super Forum regulated. Is that true or are we just not hearing from others who would like to keep the Super Forum topics as open as possible? I'm open to all possibilities that don't require a fourth forum.

Its now or never if you are going to speak up and state your opinion. After I get through the changes (what ever they will be) it will be too late.

 

[joelippard]

My Suggestion

Would be to restrict the Super forum to conversations that most of us enjoy on there, such as topics about other small household appliances, Wash in's, various celebrations that we want to share, EXAMPLE: The Christmas Tree Thread that Fred posted was most enjoyable. I look on there every day, and I glean for myself what I want to see, the rest of it is just like a good soap opera.

If people would not comply with the suggested topics then I would delete their posts and email them in regards to it. Three "heated topic" posts would constitute a dismissal from the club.

Thanks so much Robert for all your time.

Joe

 

[Unimatic1140]

Payment will be a major issue for us over waters especially on a regular basis and what I find frustrating is changing a multinational forum bringing people from all walks of life into an American forum that nobody else can involve themselves in.

Hi Rob, please educate me about what you mean? I had some European, Canadian and Australian orders for the DVD without any issues using Payal, they have a special subscription service that can be easily set up and used.

 

[tlee618]

I'm sure that you have about had it Robert!!

It is very sad that you have had all this grief to deal with Robert and even sadder that it basically been caused by two or three individuals. The super forum has been around many years and only of late has there been this kind of childish behavior. You know that you have my full support on whatever you decide to do. Thank you so very much for all that you have done to give us, free of charge, a place to share our hobbies and passions.

 

[travis]

I really enjoy the Super forum as I tend to collect other appliances in addition to a few washers. The web seems to be lacking a "Refrigeratorland" site.

I don't have a problem with a membership to access the super forum. I tend to like the off topic posts. I enjoy the exposure of some of these posts. It's a comfort to me to have this weird little family that's primarily gay men that collect. As such, political talk tends to be more liberal and joking more sexual. Again, I enjoy the conversation.

I wish a few members could chill out with making such polarizing statements. Those usually refer to the right wing conservatives. I understand that this is a site for collecting, but another group of members should realize this isn't 1950 anymore much as we might enjoy the appliances.

I'd be happy to pay to be a member for access to this site or just the Super forum. Another member mentioned above the lack of politics and religion at antiqueradios.com, that might be the case, but there's plenty of other name calling in other posts. By and large, this site is calm.

Robert, thank you for your work in whatever changes you make.

 

[pumper]

No politics, no religion, no conversations or photos of a sexually suggestive nature in the Super or any other forum. All discussions of a personal nature should be restricted to private email. If it doesn't have anything to do with detergent, other appliances etc, then don't post it. People that continue to do it should have their priviledges suspended.