whitekingd
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No, actually, that is called what happens when we let "going green" get out of control. I'm sure the lady who had to put out the money isn't considering herself an urban legend.
Compact Fluorescent Failures
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dj-gabriele
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That is sensationalism
I got an article on the matter you posted, about the poor lamp lady:
Have a look at it.
As CFL could possibly be harmful due to the small quantity of mercury they have, still I think that there are many more risky activities one could do in his own house and for the truth about this read the article.
As comparison a tubular fluorescent tube, the ones used since the 30s also contain mercury and much more than CFL do, but nobody ever complained about them. In my opinion it is only media hysteria.
I got an article on the matter you posted, about the poor lamp lady:
Loading…
www.snopes.com
Have a look at it.
As CFL could possibly be harmful due to the small quantity of mercury they have, still I think that there are many more risky activities one could do in his own house and for the truth about this read the article.
As comparison a tubular fluorescent tube, the ones used since the 30s also contain mercury and much more than CFL do, but nobody ever complained about them. In my opinion it is only media hysteria.
Loading…
www.snopes.com
> I don't like CFL's. I find the light they emit to be very harsh and blinding. Could just be my eyes, but that doesn't change my impression of them. <
You're definitely not alone, Ralph. My partner is a migraineur, and CFLs (at least bright ones) trigger his headaches. Apparently these bulbs flicker imperceptibly, but some people are more sensitive to this flickering than others.
We've actually had to stop going to about half the restaurants we used to frequent (no big loss, most of these places were dives anyway, like Dennys) because they switched to CFLs for their table lighting. Better restaurants have stuck with incandescents because the light is more flattering to both food and people.
You're definitely not alone, Ralph. My partner is a migraineur, and CFLs (at least bright ones) trigger his headaches. Apparently these bulbs flicker imperceptibly, but some people are more sensitive to this flickering than others.
We've actually had to stop going to about half the restaurants we used to frequent (no big loss, most of these places were dives anyway, like Dennys) because they switched to CFLs for their table lighting. Better restaurants have stuck with incandescents because the light is more flattering to both food and people.
Free and/or Cheap Bulbs
Jamie, my uncle worked for the Public Service Company(?), the electricity provider in the greater Chicago area. I remember hearing about customers bringing in dead bulbs and trading them for new ones. I think it was absolutely free back in those days. Reminds me of the PG&E billboards we used to see all over around here in the 60's, advising "Don't Be a Dishwasher, Buy One" back when nobody had ever heard of an energy crisis.
As for the cheap incandescents, there are some here in my house leftover from a purchase my sister or my mom must have made at a 99 cent store or something. Made in Germany. No question in my mind it's the former East Germany, out of some backward eastern bloc factory. The bulbs have that darkened used look right out of the box and the light they provide seems weak. I'm using them in places like the attic, basement and garage but nowhere that I need good lighting.
Now, about the issue with ambient temperature impacting the operation of CFL's and regular flourescents, what about the tubes Sears used in their fancy early 60's fridges? They were special flourescents made to operate at low temperatures. Couldn't that technology be applied to modern day CFL's for low temp applications?
Ralph
Jamie, my uncle worked for the Public Service Company(?), the electricity provider in the greater Chicago area. I remember hearing about customers bringing in dead bulbs and trading them for new ones. I think it was absolutely free back in those days. Reminds me of the PG&E billboards we used to see all over around here in the 60's, advising "Don't Be a Dishwasher, Buy One" back when nobody had ever heard of an energy crisis.
As for the cheap incandescents, there are some here in my house leftover from a purchase my sister or my mom must have made at a 99 cent store or something. Made in Germany. No question in my mind it's the former East Germany, out of some backward eastern bloc factory. The bulbs have that darkened used look right out of the box and the light they provide seems weak. I'm using them in places like the attic, basement and garage but nowhere that I need good lighting.
Now, about the issue with ambient temperature impacting the operation of CFL's and regular flourescents, what about the tubes Sears used in their fancy early 60's fridges? They were special flourescents made to operate at low temperatures. Couldn't that technology be applied to modern day CFL's for low temp applications?
Ralph
whitekingd
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I have never liked the flourescent bulbs whether they were from the 30's or today. Harsh lighting, and not flattering to anything. I still believe we are trading one evil for another. Stop the hysteria and look at the whole picture. Just because it is promoted as good and "green" doesn't make it so!
I think we have to
be honest here.
I have seen some outstanding lighting using plasma discharge and some really dreadful lighting using halogens.
The current complaint about the LED backlit luxury screens is that they are so bright and their colors so pure, it is forcing people in my industry to work to far more exacting standards than they previously had to.
You can argue that a Whirlpool TL sold as a Maytag is 'proof' that Maytags are junk, or, you can take a Highlander from the 1960's and argue that they are outstanding in both quality and value.
We have to argue using the best of a given technology, not the cheapest and worst.
We also have to consider the extent to which our perceptions are culturally biased. Just because we used slide rules when I was a young student doesn't mean I should consider them the standard by which my students should do their work in 2009. Just because the Pantone colors couldn't be properly shown on a Windows system in 1993 doesn't mean I am limited to Apple products in 2009. Just because a Walmart piece of shit is nothing but mercury laden trash doesn't mean that a high quality Philips CFL can't serve its purpose well!
be honest here.
I have seen some outstanding lighting using plasma discharge and some really dreadful lighting using halogens.
The current complaint about the LED backlit luxury screens is that they are so bright and their colors so pure, it is forcing people in my industry to work to far more exacting standards than they previously had to.
You can argue that a Whirlpool TL sold as a Maytag is 'proof' that Maytags are junk, or, you can take a Highlander from the 1960's and argue that they are outstanding in both quality and value.
We have to argue using the best of a given technology, not the cheapest and worst.
We also have to consider the extent to which our perceptions are culturally biased. Just because we used slide rules when I was a young student doesn't mean I should consider them the standard by which my students should do their work in 2009. Just because the Pantone colors couldn't be properly shown on a Windows system in 1993 doesn't mean I am limited to Apple products in 2009. Just because a Walmart piece of shit is nothing but mercury laden trash doesn't mean that a high quality Philips CFL can't serve its purpose well!
autowasherfreak
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I've been seeing the Wal-Mart commercial for the CFL's were the lady said that using 1 CFL will save $46.00 on a person's electric bill. Our electric bill is always over $100.00 a month, but I'm still using two electric space heaters, and we have an electric water heater as well.
I have been thinking of changing the most used lights over to CFL. The light fixture on my living room ceiling holds 4 bulbs, but I only use 2 60 watt bulbs in it. The kitchen fixture uses 3 bulbs and use 3 60 watt bulbs in it as well. If I switched those to CFL I wonder how much it would save. Would the savings be noticed right away?
Would it be safe to use CFL's in my range hood? Or would I be better stying with regular bulbs there?
I have been thinking of changing the most used lights over to CFL. The light fixture on my living room ceiling holds 4 bulbs, but I only use 2 60 watt bulbs in it. The kitchen fixture uses 3 bulbs and use 3 60 watt bulbs in it as well. If I switched those to CFL I wonder how much it would save. Would the savings be noticed right away?
Would it be safe to use CFL's in my range hood? Or would I be better stying with regular bulbs there?
Depending on the space provided for the bulb in your range hood, a CFL may be too bulky to fit in there.
Also consider that CFL's need to warm up, so if you want full lighting immediately, a CFL is not the way to go. The few CFL's I have around the house (really they are all outside the house) are in places where it doesn't matter if it takes them a while to warm up.
One interesting thing I noticed was with the last pair of CFL's my partner bought, which are designed to resemble a candelabra bulb. They have candelabra size bases but come with an adapter to fit a regular size bulb receptacle. That seems like a good idea for all "decorator" type bulbs, CFL or otherwise.
Ralph
Also consider that CFL's need to warm up, so if you want full lighting immediately, a CFL is not the way to go. The few CFL's I have around the house (really they are all outside the house) are in places where it doesn't matter if it takes them a while to warm up.
One interesting thing I noticed was with the last pair of CFL's my partner bought, which are designed to resemble a candelabra bulb. They have candelabra size bases but come with an adapter to fit a regular size bulb receptacle. That seems like a good idea for all "decorator" type bulbs, CFL or otherwise.
Ralph
dj-gabriele
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INSTANT ON LAMPS
Excuse me, but the first complain about CF is that they take long to warm up, here in Italy there are many lamps with dual circuitry that have a fast start for the fluorescent lamp (light gets full output in less than 2 seconds at indoor temperatures) plus a second circuit that incorporate an halogen lamp that automatically dims as the fluorescent tube warms up. This way you save energy and you have 100% brightness as soon as yo turn on the switch. I guess that if we have them here, they exist also in other countries.
This way, even if you put the lamp in a non heated place you can have instant light, like an old style incandescent lamp.
Excuse me, but the first complain about CF is that they take long to warm up, here in Italy there are many lamps with dual circuitry that have a fast start for the fluorescent lamp (light gets full output in less than 2 seconds at indoor temperatures) plus a second circuit that incorporate an halogen lamp that automatically dims as the fluorescent tube warms up. This way you save energy and you have 100% brightness as soon as yo turn on the switch. I guess that if we have them here, they exist also in other countries.
This way, even if you put the lamp in a non heated place you can have instant light, like an old style incandescent lamp.
autowasherfreak
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I saw an incandescent/halogen type bulb at the grocery store. The halogen bulb was inside of the incandescent bulb. I think it cost around $5.00 a bulb. Can't remember what is called, I will look later this week when I'm at the store again.
dj-gabriele
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Yes, the halogen switches off as soon as the lamp reaches full brighness.
It's a matter of few seconds usually, with a warm room could be some 2-3 seconds and in a cold enviroment around 30 seconds or a minute but usually no more. Beghelli markets them.
It's a matter of few seconds usually, with a warm room could be some 2-3 seconds and in a cold enviroment around 30 seconds or a minute but usually no more. Beghelli markets them.
So much ruckus and engineering over light bulbs, LOL.
I have CFs in several areas through the house and outside, ranging from "bare curlies" to candelabras to reflector floods. Two have failed in four years, IIRC. I found red and green curlies at Walgreens for outside at Christmas.
I have CFs in several areas through the house and outside, ranging from "bare curlies" to candelabras to reflector floods. Two have failed in four years, IIRC. I found red and green curlies at Walgreens for outside at Christmas.
Jim,
I would not change the lamp in a vent hood unless I were certain it was not going to get too hot. CFLs hate getting hot.
Your question, do CFLs really save noticeably:
You will notice the change immediately, however, just how long they take to pay for themselves depends on how much you pay per kilowatt energy and whether you got the bulbs rebated.
Here in Munich, one Kilowatt costs me .19 Eurocent. Lets make it .20 for ease in calculation.
Incandescents:
5x60=300W.
That means, if you run the bulbs a bit over three and a half-hours per day, your cost will be .20.
Do that 30 days in a month, that makes 6.00Euros.
OK, let's see. I can buy a decent CFL for 5.00Euros, but I can buy six at a time in the same good quality for 20Euros.
How long until I have saved enough money to pay for the six new bulbs?
Well, let's see.
6 x 9w =54 W (I know, I know, but I like the slightly less efficient Philips bulbs which give better color rendition. figure 7W/bulb if you like)
54w x 3.3 hours =178.2 Watts.
178.2 x 30 days = 5.346 Kw
5.346 x .20 = 1.07 Euros
Cost to run incandescents: 6.00 Euros/month
Cost to run CFLs: 1.07 Euros/month
Savings: 4.93 Euros/month
So, in shortly over 4 months, the CFLs have paid for themselves.
Their life expectancy is longer than an incandescent lamp, so I left that out of the calculation, but even if you are getting your incandescent lamps for free, the savings are real and you will see them at once.
Of course, those electric heaters are what are really costing you.
1.5Kw x .20 = .30 Eurocents/hour
Yikes.
Hope that helps.
I would not change the lamp in a vent hood unless I were certain it was not going to get too hot. CFLs hate getting hot.
Your question, do CFLs really save noticeably:
You will notice the change immediately, however, just how long they take to pay for themselves depends on how much you pay per kilowatt energy and whether you got the bulbs rebated.
Here in Munich, one Kilowatt costs me .19 Eurocent. Lets make it .20 for ease in calculation.
Incandescents:
5x60=300W.
That means, if you run the bulbs a bit over three and a half-hours per day, your cost will be .20.
Do that 30 days in a month, that makes 6.00Euros.
OK, let's see. I can buy a decent CFL for 5.00Euros, but I can buy six at a time in the same good quality for 20Euros.
How long until I have saved enough money to pay for the six new bulbs?
Well, let's see.
6 x 9w =54 W (I know, I know, but I like the slightly less efficient Philips bulbs which give better color rendition. figure 7W/bulb if you like)
54w x 3.3 hours =178.2 Watts.
178.2 x 30 days = 5.346 Kw
5.346 x .20 = 1.07 Euros
Cost to run incandescents: 6.00 Euros/month
Cost to run CFLs: 1.07 Euros/month
Savings: 4.93 Euros/month
So, in shortly over 4 months, the CFLs have paid for themselves.
Their life expectancy is longer than an incandescent lamp, so I left that out of the calculation, but even if you are getting your incandescent lamps for free, the savings are real and you will see them at once.
Of course, those electric heaters are what are really costing you.
1.5Kw x .20 = .30 Eurocents/hour
Yikes.
Hope that helps.
CFL's in a range hood--
are not a good idea.....
If a CFL breaks, there is the mercury contamination to consider...if a person was cooking in uncovered pans and pots, the food could not be served...between the broken glass and the mercury.
In fact, good manufacturers advise against CFLs being used in downlighting fixtures for the mercury safety reasons. All of my CFLs are by GE, and the liturature is quite adamant about them not being used as downlighting.
Oh, and my CFLs light instantly, but full brightness is not immediate, but bright enough to see safely.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
are not a good idea.....
If a CFL breaks, there is the mercury contamination to consider...if a person was cooking in uncovered pans and pots, the food could not be served...between the broken glass and the mercury.
In fact, good manufacturers advise against CFLs being used in downlighting fixtures for the mercury safety reasons. All of my CFLs are by GE, and the liturature is quite adamant about them not being used as downlighting.
Oh, and my CFLs light instantly, but full brightness is not immediate, but bright enough to see safely.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
Hi Lawrence,
You're right, one should never run any sort of lamp around food without a proper shatter shield.
There is a big difference to the ancient flicker-hum-flicker-snap-hum-hum-flicker, flicker, flicker, snap, hum, flicker, on and flickering fluorescent lamps of my early adulthood back in the 1930s and CFLs today.
They don't flicker, the frequency at which the plasma field is cycled is far higher than the human eye can take note of.
They don't hum.
Frankly, now that there is quite a bit of light at once and the final brightening up is gradual but quick, I think it is kinder on the eyes than the snap! 500W halogen glare which used to great me in the morning.
Gives me time to open both eyes, stops the mirrors from shattering at my sudden appearance...
We need to put aside our outdated experiences and take a look at things as they are today.
Just because appliances have gone to hell in a handbasket since the 1970's doesn't mean everything else has.
You're right, one should never run any sort of lamp around food without a proper shatter shield.
There is a big difference to the ancient flicker-hum-flicker-snap-hum-hum-flicker, flicker, flicker, snap, hum, flicker, on and flickering fluorescent lamps of my early adulthood back in the 1930s and CFLs today.
They don't flicker, the frequency at which the plasma field is cycled is far higher than the human eye can take note of.
They don't hum.
Frankly, now that there is quite a bit of light at once and the final brightening up is gradual but quick, I think it is kinder on the eyes than the snap! 500W halogen glare which used to great me in the morning.
Gives me time to open both eyes, stops the mirrors from shattering at my sudden appearance...
We need to put aside our outdated experiences and take a look at things as they are today.
Just because appliances have gone to hell in a handbasket since the 1970's doesn't mean everything else has.
Theo.
I had.
Next question?
I had.
Next question?
Not so weird,
For four months, I had no electricity in my newly bought flat except work lights and an extension cord.
Work lights were 500 watt halogen.
Long story.
For four months, I had no electricity in my newly bought flat except work lights and an extension cord.
Work lights were 500 watt halogen.
Long story.
