Comparing Available Powder Detergents

[michaelz08]

I have been seeing mentions of specific ingredients to look for in detergents around here and was curious which is the best powder detergent around. I wanted it to be Cascade, given it's the only powdered name brand left (I think?) but to get a somewhat subjective take I took the ingredients lists for 6 major powdered detergents and fed it into ChatGPT 4o without any brand information.

I focused on powder as I want to be able to put it into a PowerDisk cartridge.

Brands included (price per Oz at Target, if available)
Detergent 1: Seventh Generation Free & Clear ($0.13)
Detergent 2: Cascade Complete Fresh Scent ($0.09)
Detergent 3: Target's DealWorthy Lemon Scent ($0.07)
Detergent 4: Nellie's ($1.94, their website exc shipping)
Detergent 5: Miele Powderdisk ($1.24, their website exc shipping)
Detergent 6: Walmart Great Value ($0.06)

The results were interesting.

From ChatGPT
------------------------------

Rankings (with a water softener)
1. Detergent 1 - Seventh Generation Free & Clear
Strengths:
> Contains both protease and amylase enzymes for breaking down protein and starch residues effectively.
> Includes sodium percarbonate, a powerful oxygen-based stain remover.
> Sodium polyaspartate acts as an anti-filming agent, reducing residue on dishes.

Weaknesses:
> The citric acid is slightly redundant with a water softener.

2. Detergent 4 - Nellie's
Strengths:
> Contains protease enzyme for protein-based stain removal and sodium percarbonate for oxygen-based stain removal.
> Sodium metasilicate improves grease-cutting and cleaning efficiency.
> Cocamidopropyl betaine is a surfactant for better residue and grease removal.

Weaknesses:
> Lacks an amylase enzyme, so it may be less effective on starch-based stains.
> No anti-filming agent, which can lead to minor residue.

3. Detergent 5 - Miele Powderdisk
Strengths:
> Contains both amylase and subtilisin (protease), ensuring comprehensive stain removal for starches and proteins.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide provides effective oxygen-based stain removal.
> Trisodium dicarboxymethyl alaninate and tetrasodium etidronate act as chelating agents, reducing water hardness and preventing residue buildup.
Benzotriazole offers protection for metal items like silverware.

Weaknesses:
> Contains fragrance (parfum) and titanium dioxide, which are unnecessary and purely cosmetic.
> The formula is complex, and some ingredients (e.g., PEG-400, sucrose, zea mays starch) seem superfluous for dishwasher cleaning.

4. Detergent 6 - Walmart Great Value

Strengths:
> Contains both protease and amylase enzymes, making it effective on protein- and starch-based stains.
> Sodium silicate boosts alkalinity for grease removal and adds anti-corrosion benefits.
> D-limonene is a natural degreaser, enhancing grease-cutting performance.

Weaknesses:
> Lacks oxygen-based stain removers like sodium percarbonate or sodium carbonate peroxide, which could limit its effectiveness on tough stains.
> Contains titanium dioxide, a cosmetic additive with no cleaning function.
> No anti-filming or chelating agents, increasing the likelihood of residue even with softened water.

5. Detergent 2 - Cascade Complete Fresh Scent
Strengths:
> Includes both amylase and subtilisin enzymes for effective cleaning.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide offers oxygen-based stain removal.
> Zinc carbonate and copolymer of acrylic/maleic acids help reduce residue and enhance shine.

Weaknesses:
> Contains unnecessary fragrances and colorants, which may leave residues or odors.

6. Detergent 3 - Target's DealWorthy Lemon Scent
Strengths:
> Contains both amylase and protease enzymes for effective cleaning.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide provides oxygen-based stain removal.

Weaknesses:
> Lacks water softeners or chelating agents, making it less effective if water quality fluctuates.
> No anti-filming agent, leading to potential residue even with a water softener.

Final Rankings
1. Detergent 1: Comprehensive cleaning with enzymes, oxygen-based stain removal, and anti-filming properties.

2. Detergent 4: Strong cleaning agents with enhanced grease-cutting performance but lacks starch-targeting enzymes.

3. Detergent 5: A well-rounded formula with enzymes, oxygen-based cleaners, and metal protection, but overly complex with unnecessary additives.

4. Detergent 6: Strong on enzymes and grease removal, but no oxygen-based cleaners or anti-filming agents limits its versatility.

5. Detergent 2: Effective cleaning with enzymes and anti-filming agents but contains fragrances and colorants.

6. Detergent 3: Basic cleaning capabilities without water softeners or anti-filming agents.

Key Takeaway
Detergent 1 remains the best choice due to its balance of cleaning power, anti-filming properties, and effective oxygen-based stain removal. Detergent 5 is competitive but ranks slightly lower due to its unnecessary complexity and cosmetic additives.

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I then was curious why Cascade (#2) was rated so low, as I thought it would have ranked better. Similarly, I asked why it was so keen on Seventh Generation (#1).

------------------------------

Great question! Let's revisit Detergent 2 and clarify why it is ranked lower, while also addressing its strengths and weaknesses more thoroughly.

Detergent 2: Key Strengths
> Dual Enzymes: It contains amylase and subtilisin (protease), which are effective for breaking down starches and proteins, respectively. This makes it well-suited for cleaning food residues.

> Oxygen-Based Cleaner: Sodium carbonate peroxide is included for oxygen-based stain removal, which is highly effective at breaking down tough stains.
Anti-Filming Agents: Ingredients like zinc carbonate and copolymer of acrylic/maleic acids help prevent residue and water spots, improving the shine of dishes.

> Broad Cleaning Spectrum: Its combination of enzymes, oxygen-based cleaners, and anti-filming agents provides solid cleaning capabilities.
Why It's Rated Lower

Unnecessary Additives:
> Fragrances and Colorants: These don’t contribute to cleaning performance and may even leave residue or odors, especially in very hard water or high-temperature washes. Their inclusion reduces the overall efficiency compared to detergents focused purely on cleaning agents.

> Lack of Grease-Cutting Enhancers:

> Compared to other detergents, Detergent 2 lacks specific grease-fighting surfactants like cocamidopropyl betaine (found in Detergent 4) or D-limonene (in Detergent 6). While it performs well on food stains, it may struggle with greasy loads or oily residue.

> No Metal Protection: Unlike Detergent 5, which includes benzotriazole to protect metal items (e.g., silverware), Detergent 2 lacks specific ingredients to prevent corrosion or tarnish.

> Redundancy with Softened Water:
The copolymer of acrylic/maleic acids and zinc carbonate are more critical in hard water to prevent residue. With softened water, these features are less impactful, making Detergent 2 slightly redundant compared to simpler and more specialized options.

Where Detergent 2 Excels
> If fragrances and colorants aren’t a concern and you’re looking for a balanced detergent that works well with or without a water softener, Detergent 2 is a good option.

It shines when:
> Residue prevention is a high priority.
> A mix of starch and protein cleaning is needed.
> Oxygen-based cleaning is important.

Detergent 1 consistently ranks as the best option in this comparison due to its well-balanced and effective formula. It provides a comprehensive mix of cleaning agents, anti-filming properties, and oxygen-based stain removers while minimizing unnecessary additives. Here's a breakdown of why Detergent 1 excels:

1. Comprehensive Cleaning Power
> Dual Enzymes:
>> Protease: Breaks down protein-based stains (e.g., egg, meat, dairy).
>> Amylase: Breaks down starch-based stains (e.g., pasta, rice, potatoes).
> The presence of both enzymes ensures excellent cleaning of a wide variety of food residues.

> Sodium Percarbonate: This oxygen-based stain remover is highly effective at breaking down tough, baked-on food and organic stains, making it ideal for a dishwasher detergent.

2. Anti-Filming and Residue Prevention
> Sodium Polyaspartate: This synthetic anti-filming agent prevents residue and water spots on dishes and glasses. Even in softened water, this is beneficial because it adds a layer of insurance against film or streaks.

3. Minimal Unnecessary Additives
> No Fragrances or Colorants: Unlike some other detergents (e.g., Detergents 2, 5, and 6), Detergent 1 avoids unnecessary cosmetic additives, reducing the likelihood of residue or odors on dishes. This makes it particularly suitable for sensitive users and ensures all the ingredients serve a functional cleaning purpose.

4. Adaptability to Different Water Conditions
> Citric Acid: This plant-derived water softener chelates hard water minerals, reducing the impact of calcium and magnesium deposits. While this might be slightly redundant with a water softener, it ensures Detergent 1 performs well in varying water conditions.

5. Balanced and Simple Formula
> Detergent 1 avoids overly complex or redundant ingredients. Each ingredient plays a meaningful role in cleaning, stain removal, or preventing residue.

Strengths vs. Other Detergents
Compared to Detergent 4: Detergent 1 has both amylase and protease, while Detergent 4 only has protease, making Detergent 1 better for starch-based residues.
Compared to Detergent 2: Detergent 1 avoids fragrances and colorants and has an anti-filming agent (sodium polyaspartate) absent in Detergent 2.
Compared to Detergent 5: Detergent 1 avoids unnecessary complexity (e.g., sucrose, PEG compounds) and focuses solely on effective cleaning ingredients.
Compared to Detergent 6: Detergent 1 includes oxygen-based stain removers (sodium percarbonate) and an anti-filming agent, which are missing in Detergent 6.

Potential Drawbacks
> Redundancy of Citric Acid in Softened Water: Since you're using a water softener, the citric acid's role as a water softener might be unnecessary, but it doesn't detract significantly from its performance.

Summary: Why Detergent 1 is the Best
Detergent 1 delivers:

> Broad-spectrum cleaning for protein and starch stains.
> Powerful oxygen-based stain removal.
> Residue-free results with its anti-filming agent.
> Minimal unnecessary ingredients, focusing on efficiency and functionality.

This combination makes it the most versatile and effective option, particularly in setups like yours where a water softener and rinse aid are used. It ensures consistently clean, spotless dishes across various conditions.

------------------------------

I suppose I'll be trying the Seventh Generation one next after I finish my Cascade.

What are everyone else's thoughts?
If I missed a major brand, let me know.

The chat itself is linked so you can view the full conversation.

ChatGPT - Dishwasher Detergent Comparison

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

 

[maytaga806]

I decided to try out the cascade powder again since I moved to a new home with soft water, and it worked excellent. The fragrance is not purposeless, in my experience the fragrance helps to eliminate nasty odors from dirty dishes that have made the dishwasher itself smell in between loads. I’ve used unscented detergent and after the cycle was complete I was slapped in the face with a gross unclean odor pouring out of the machine, I’m not sure if this is why most detergents are scented but it does serve a strong purpose to ensure food odors lingering from dishes in the machine gets eliminated each wash.

My only gripe with the cascade is that I wish the scent was a bit stronger, or if they had a lemony scent like they used to. Because the demand of powder has reduced the past decade or so cascade doesn’t feel the need to offer a variety of powder anymore which is nonsense, so many people still use it. Wonderful thread though I loved reading this!! Very interesting

 

[helicaldrive]

FWIW

I have a water softener. I stopped using Cascade powder because it was etching my glasses. Pacs cause an oversuds that chokes the machine out. Finish powder was perfect but they discontinued it. So I tried Aldi Radiance gel and it’s better than any powders I have used and it is easy on dishes and glasses. My results might not replicate without soft water.

 

[volvoman]

Meanwhile, we've tried Aldi "Radiance" gel....

...and it was terrible! With that being said, we have hard water here, so perhaps that was a factor.

We've also tried Target's generic powder, and were relatively impressed - especially for the price.

 

[panasonicvac]

I'm about to pick up some Cascade Complete powder this weekend and try out to see how well it does, I've never used powder before in my KitchenAid and I have soft water. Loved the liquid kind but the last jug left some water marks on the glasses. And the pods were foaming a bit more than the Kirkland pods that I use currently. I'm open to trying out other powder detergent since I recently made a switch over to powder for laundry.

 

[askolover]

I use premiere chlorine based powder. It is unscented but when the kudi23 finishes it just smells like a clean dishwasher reminiscent of new vinyl racks in a new dishwasher.

 

[whatsername]

I only use powder as the F&P dish drawers effectively require it. Finish was my favorite but Cascade does nearly as well IMO. I had similar results to Cascade with Seventh Generation. The Target store brand worked ok but was not worth the savings compared to the performance of the others.

These days I get Cascade or Seventh Generation on Amazon, whichever is cheaper when I need it. I haven't been able to find powder at the stores I shop at anymore. Sam's Club used to have 2 packs of the huge Cascade boxes but hasn't carried them the past few years.

 

[iiijohnnymaciii]

I love cascade powder. 2 tbs in the main and 1 tbs in the prewash. Powder is great, last a long time, allows for a true prewash, and has a great cost per load.

 

[johnb300m]

Seventh Generation has really improved over the last few years.
It has worked exceptionally well in both my current Chicago tap water, and my past softened well water.
Cascade Complete is my 2nd runner up and I’ll still get that when I can find it. Most stores around me now only have 1 spot for it on their bottom shelves. And it’s sold out 25% of the time.
I’ve mostly retired from detergent pacs and pods, especially with my “last century” machines now.

I think why it pushed CC lower in rank from 7thGen is because of the filler ingredients that 7thGen doesn’t have. And when your dosing is finite, to a dispenser volume, the fillers eke out working ingredients. Especially the citric acid that helps keep films down.
CC will indeed leave a slight film the second the rinse aid gets a little low. Or if there’s a plastic-dominant load.
The 7thGen citric acid detergent has ever filmed in my city water.

I’ll endorse that Finish powder was the BEST for sparkling glasses and bleached coffee mugs. It’s so annoying they discontinued it.

With the help of ChatGPT I was able to formulate my own detergent for a little bit. It ended up being similar to 7thGen, with the addition of sodium silicate to quell etching.
However it fell flat with starches because my enzyme ingredients were off.
I guess I might retry again, but for now, the CC and 7thGen are working great.

 

[helicaldrive]

Again your mileage may vary and FWIW

My dishwasher, ever since brand new, always had a fishy smell for a day or so after running a load. But by the time I had used half the bottle of Radiance gel, that fishy smell finally went away.

 

[combo52]

Best dishwasher detergents

Wow, thanks Michael for all your research. Very interesting for sure.

My main concern is very few people have soft water in our area not one and 100 people have water softeners and the water ranges from about 7 to 9 grains of hardness more on the west side of the city less on the east side.

While I generally like powder detergents for laundry and don't use laundry pods I do fine for dishwashers the pods work very well here I typically use about 1 tablespoon of either liquid or powder detergent in the pre-wash cup of my dishwasher and typically a Kirkland Costco pod in the dispenser. I've also had good luck with other pods even the Aldi's liquid detergent and their pods work pretty well with our water conditions.

Unlike laundry every dishwasher load is nearly the same. It's always full of dirty dishes, laundry I like to measure detergent because the loads very quite a bit.

With our water, I have about zero customers who can get good results out of any liquidator powdered dishwasher detergent, we see it every week dishwashers that are a filthy mess and all mineral up where they're trying to still use powder or liquid. The pods are really the only thing that work consistently well.

Michael, I would love to see you do this sort of detailed testing of dishwasher detergent with harder water that may not be possible if you only have soft water of course. You can come here and test in our many dishwashers if you like that would be interesting.

John

 

[panasonicvac]

I finally gave it a shot

I accidentally put in a little more than I should the first time but I was very pleased with it! Unlike the Kirkland pods, there were no suds at all which really impressed me. I think I found my new favorite dishwasher detergent I still love using Kirkland pods but I like having stuff that I can rotate around with. Dishes came out sparkling clean and it smells good as well. Only downside I've noticed is the box isn't sealed so well where it'd sprinkle some detergent out of the bottom so I have to have a bag underneath it.

 

[michaelz08]

Regarding harder water...

@combo52, I asked it to re-rank assuming hard water (I asked for 21 grains, as that's what we have here) and here's the updated rankings:

Though worth noting, if I had a model without water softening I would add extra citric acid knowing what I know these days. In the unit I replaced you could quickly see hard water deposits adding up on the door seal (At this time I cascade used gel, which seemed to work well with the hard water).

------------------------------------

In very hard water conditions (21 grains per gallon), the ranking of detergents shifts to prioritize water-softening ingredients, anti-filming agents, and chelation capabilities to address the challenges posed by mineral buildup and residue. Here's the updated ranking:

Updated Rankings for Very Hard Water
1. Detergent 1

Strengths:
> Citric acid: A powerful water softener that binds calcium and magnesium, reducing mineral buildup.
> Sodium polyaspartate: An anti-filming agent that prevents residue and spotting on dishes.
> Dual enzymes: Protease and amylase ensure effective cleaning of protein and starch residues.
> Sodium percarbonate: Oxygen-based stain remover for tough baked-on residues.

Why It's #1:
Its water-softening properties and anti-filming agent directly combat the issues of hard water. Combined with comprehensive cleaning agents, it remains the most effective option in this scenario.

2. Detergent 5

Strengths:
> Trisodium dicarboxymethyl alaninate and tetrasodium etidronate: Chelating agents that bind hard water minerals, preventing scale and residue.
> Amylase and subtilisin (protease): Cover both starch and protein-based residues.
> Benzotriazole: Protects metal surfaces like silverware from tarnish, a common problem in hard water.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide: Oxygen-based stain removal.

Weaknesses:
> Contains unnecessary fragrance and titanium dioxide.

Why It's #2:
The combination of chelating agents and enzymes makes it a strong contender for hard water, despite minor inefficiencies from cosmetic additives.

3. Detergent 4

Strengths:
> Citric acid: Provides water softening to reduce mineral deposits.
> Sodium metasilicate: Enhances grease-cutting performance and protects glassware.
> Protease enzyme: Effective on protein-based residues.
> Sodium percarbonate: Provides oxygen-based cleaning.

Weaknesses:
> Lacks an amylase enzyme, making it less effective on starch residues.
> No dedicated anti-filming agent.

Why It's #3:
Citric acid and sodium metasilicate handle hard water effectively, but the lack of starch-focused cleaning and anti-filming properties drops its ranking slightly.

4. Detergent 2

Strengths:
> Copolymer of acrylic/maleic acids: Acts as a water softener and anti-filming agent.
> Amylase and subtilisin (protease): Provide comprehensive cleaning for starch and protein residues.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide: Oxygen-based stain removal.
> Zinc carbonate: Enhances shine and reduces filming.

Weaknesses:
> Contains fragrances and colorants, which add no cleaning value and may cause residue in hard water.

Why It's #4:
Strong anti-filming and water-softening properties make it effective, but unnecessary additives and the lack of citric acid or similar natural softeners make it less versatile.

5. Detergent 6

Strengths:
> Sodium silicate: Provides moderate anti-filming properties and helps cut grease.
> Protease and amylase enzymes: Cover protein- and starch-based residues.
> D-limonene: Acts as a natural degreaser.

Weaknesses:
> Lacks any dedicated water softeners or chelating agents like citric acid or acrylic copolymers.
> No oxygen-based stain remover (sodium percarbonate or carbonate peroxide).
> Includes titanium dioxide, which is unnecessary.

Why It's #5:
Its grease-cutting performance and enzyme content are strong, but the lack of water-softening ingredients makes it less effective in hard water.

6. Detergent 3

Strengths:
> Protease and amylase enzymes: Provide good cleaning power for food residues.
> Sodium carbonate peroxide: Delivers oxygen-based stain removal.

Weaknesses:
> No water-softening agents or anti-filming additives.
> Less effective for very hard water, leading to residue and mineral deposits.

Why It's #6:
It lacks critical features for hard water, making it the least effective option for your setup.

Summary
In very hard water, detergents that include citric acid, chelating agents, and anti-filming properties are essential to combat mineral buildup, residue, and spotting. The revised rankings are:

Detergent 1: Best combination of water softening, anti-filming, and cleaning power.
Detergent 5: Excellent chelating agents and metal protection but with unnecessary additives.
Detergent 4: Solid cleaning and water softening but lacks starch cleaning and anti-filming agents.
Detergent 2: Good anti-filming properties but slightly redundant and includes unnecessary additives.
Detergent 6: Decent cleaning and grease-cutting but lacks water-softening or anti-filming ingredients.
Detergent 3: Good cleaning power but completely lacks features for hard water.

------------------------------------

Detergent Legend:

Detergent 1: Seventh Generation Free & Clear ($0.13)
Detergent 2: Cascade Complete Fresh Scent ($0.09)
Detergent 3: Target's DealWorthy Lemon Scent ($0.07)
Detergent 4: Nellie's ($1.94, their website exc shipping)
Detergent 5: Miele Powderdisk ($1.24, their website exc shipping)
Detergent 6: Walmart Great Value ($0.06)

 

[maytaga806]

I just picked this up yesterday and it does a very good job. It smells exactly how the original cascade lemon powder used to smell way back when, this has definitely been reformulated since the last time I used it. About two dollars less than cascade and gives the same result in my water.

I had to switch detergents immediately due to the cascade complete pacs making my Tupperware reek like the fragrance as well as making foods stored in them taste like it. Excellent old fashioned detergent.

 

[johnb300m]

NICE, your 2nd hard water rankings basically match my experience.
When I stopped using pods, I got more consistent results when going back and forth between Cascade Complete and Seventh Generation.

It's important to consider what John says, about varying results.
In one aspect, I find it puzzling because the hardness rating he claims, are the same ones of Chicago city water.
However, there's so many more aspects to water by region, so the customers in that area might need different detergents with different ingredients.

Every time I've moved I've had to recalibrate dish detergent use based on new area water, and different machines. But once dialed in, even cheaper machines yielded good results, almost as good as bougier $$$ machines.

 

[iiijohnnymaciii]

Reply to post #11

I found a container on Amazon that works well. I’d recommend it. I just open the cascade box from the top and empty into the container. Then just use a tbs or scoop and you are good to go. It even has a leveler in it.

https://a.co/d/9R1TPhF

 

[bpetersxx]

That looks fantastic

I have bags of foca and roma to seal up

and a BIG box of Gain I got in the discontinued section of DG

 

[labboy]

Miele now has PowerDisk ECO. It eliminates the metal protection and the fragrance. I wonder how that would change the rankings?

In our Miele, I love the PowerDisk detergent. I have the dispense volume decreased in the settings and usually get 24-25 cycles per disk. Even on decreased, it still cleans great.

Cascade Complete is OK. I find things don’t gleam (specifically silverware) when I use Cascade
compared to the PowerDisk.

Another one I really like is Biokleen Automatic Dish Powder. Super, super concentrated and cleans great. Sad they discontinued it.

Somat Powder is pretty amazing. But it’s been hard to find.

Bob

 

[henene4]

Powders for DW are exceedingly hard to find in Germany - and honestly haven't bothered to find any in a long time.

There is a cheap detergent only tab that's made by one company for several discounters. It's high in oxygen bleach and works pretty good, though it can suds up in slimline DWs on very low soil loads.
It's sold through dm and Kaufland store brands for the same price (6 cents per tab).
And that's what we've been using for years - at my place, my partners place and my mum's.

It's really unfortunate that Miele locked down the PowerDisc format with fears of clumping as a front and probably profit as actual reason.

I used to be not a fan of auto dosing, but ever sice I started using TwinDos with the refillable containers in my partners W1 I wish something equivalent would exist for DWs.

Liquids over here don't appear to contain any bleaching agents, so they are out of question for DW usage.