complete wiring diagram kenmore 11082172820

[wandd-collector]

Does anybody have the complete wiring diagram (including the timer schematic) for a Kenmore 11082172820? The back plate glue apparently gave out some time ago, so I have nothing to go by and I need to attempt a timer repair (original PN 376008).

TIA.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Kenmore wiring diagram

That is the exact model number of the machine my mother has, bought new in 12/1982. I put a new timer in hers in the later 1990s, which is not unusual, so if this is the first timer service the machine has seen, you're doing great.

This was a popular model, with one of the most commonly used timers in Kenmore and maybe automatic washer history in general. The 376008 and 376011 timers (same timer functions, different vendor) were used from 1977 through 1986. These two part numbers are inter-changeable. The 376008 timer was made by CCA (Controls Corp of America), a division which went on to be bought by Singer, Eaton, Invensys and who knows who else. The 376011 timer was made by Mallory.

In my experience, the Mallory timers seem to fail more often than the CCAs (specifically in developing dead spots), but they can be repaired more readily. I have rebuilt/spliced together/used for parts many Mallory timers, but the CCAs seem more likely destined for the garbage pail when they give up.

Because of the popularity of machines with this timer, these are still available as factory service parts, though the old numbers now sub to 378133 and have for over 20 years. The 378133 is a CCA design also. New timers are not cheap - like $100 or more. The 378133 requires one wire splice to be performed to enable spray rinses.

I have bought a number of timers on ebay a lot cheaper than new price, sometimes as low as $15 or $20. If you search 376008, 376011, or 378133, there are usually a number of offerings. They are a bit light right now, and expensive, but keep checking. Used appliance stores in your area may have some hanging around as well, often still mounted in consoles.

There are dozens of other models that would have the same wiring diagram as the 82172x20. 82172x00 82172x10 82172x30 82072x00 82380x00 82372x00 to name some common ones. I probably have a service panel I could photograph that would suffice, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on servicing that timer.

Care to tell us what its doing?

Gordon

 

[wandd-collector]

timer

Thanks so much for your quick reply. The timer has stopped properly cycling through the correct program. I have checked all other parts and specifically jumped the lid switch, OOB switch, and even the pressure switch to the "empty state" leg (after draining) and then placed the timer on spin only. Spin solenoid pulls in - cams are free - spin shaft drops and engages clutch if I pull cam to the notch manually, etc., but the motor gets no power. When I jump the motor it starts spinning normally when on spin only, but the timer still screws up operating properly on other cycles. After filling and agitating normally it begins to go into a loop draining some water then filling partially and does this over and over until I manually advance at which point it then drains properly, cuts out the motor with wig-wag solenoids in the proper state. As I can force the washer to work correctly by manually jumping the necessary wires, I must believe the timer has some stuck/burned contacts or open contacts and may not be advancing properly. I could go through and test each terminal/wire at the timer quick connect (timer harness), but it would be very helpful on this to simply have the complete diagram. I am a total tinkerer and actually prefer attempting a repair like this first (I am also broke at the moment) before picking up a cheap used timer that also may be defective.

If you have that diagram, I would really appreciate it. Thanks again for your very quick reply.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

I looked at the service panels I have at home. I have a couple models that would closely approximate your machine with the same timer, however neither has the diagram on their panels either, and the stack of panels I have yielded some with diagrams still attached, but not the correct one. SORRY about that.

The symptoms you describe sound like the motor run contact has degraded, AND it sounds like the timer isn't advancing properly as well. This is what I've experienced in the past with bad CCA type timers -- they are often complicated or tempermental to repair. Having used various Kenmores like these for 40+ years, I've manually advanced the timers a few times into the wrong spot, especially in between wash and rinse, where the timer normally advances over a spot in a series of two or more clicks, and they do weird things like run the motor in drain mode and fill at the same time, etc. If your timer is not advancing properly, it may very well repeat an odd series of steps as it falls back to the previous stage or click, then temporarily forward to the next one. A one-step manual advance usually gets the machine out of this loop.

I still say your timer is probably not worth "tinkering" with, as being a tinkerer as well, I've had more success with a Mallory timer in the tinkeration department vs. the CCAs. I personally like the CCAs better as they seem to last longer then the Mallorys before they start their death process (and I like their sounds better than the tin-sounding Mallorys), but if I were faced with your problem (and have been) I would use your timer for skeet shooting and not much more.

I bet I have a couple 376011s that are tinkerable that you are welcome to if you'd like to try to combine those into one working unit? I have done that before with success - replace a bad switch bank with one from a timer that had a bad motor, etc. In fact, I used the original timer from my Mom's washer as the basis for this and took her bad switch bank and replaced it with one from another that had a bad cam. It has worked in a machine of mine for more than 10 years.

The timers I bought on Ebay have all been good this far - the sellers are used appliance parts companies that have to pay to have a bad item replaced, etc. The incentive is there for them to send you a good timer, not a DOA. If you do get a bad one, you will get a refund or replacement. The timers on offer on ebay right now I think are too expensive, but seriously, I would keep looking there as a far better option than trying to repair the timer you have.

If you want me to look in my old timer box, I will gladly do that if I can find you one that works better than what you have now. You'd just have to cover the postage. I know one of them had dead spots in Perm Press and Delicate, but the cam must have been less-worn enough in Cotton Sturdy that it worked ok there.

By the way - the Cotton Sturdy cycle has a dry agitate phase toward the end of the main wash period from about 4-minutes or so to drain. Don't let that phase fool you as a timer malfunction -- the machine will agitate empty or with whatever water is in it, as it bypasses the presure switch during this phase.

Gordon

 

[akronman]

Hey Kenmore guy

I have a Whirlpool 1960 Imperial Mark XII, all pushbutton, and the timer gives me a decent amount of problems. I've had it apart 2x, cleaned many contacs and a variety of stuff, 6 loads later is acts up again.The machine is 2 speeds with a bleach solenoid and softener solenoid. I have since substituted a mid-60's dial timer from I don't know where, but it is also dead in most of the regular cycle. And it didn't work the solenoids, no leads for them. So I am stuck with either delicate wash or PermaPress only, and adding bleach and FS by hand..

So 2 questions:

Can you suggest a few WP/KM model #'s from the 60's or 70's with both bleach and FS dispensers so I can do some searching for a good dial timer? OR

Suggest a few timer model#s?

 

With the carfeul removal of the original pushbutton timer and subbing in a nearly dead -and much smaller--dial timer, I actually have a decent amount of console space for darn near any timer I've ever seen.

Sorry to hijack this thread-----but you know your Kenmores for sure--

Thanks

Mark

 

 

 

[wandd-collector]

follow-up

First thanks for all the great info. I think this is the best forum I have ever seen on any subject not related to computer programming. I really appreciate the time and effort you have given. Here is what I already knew about the situation locally. I have for years picked up all kinds of old stuff and stashed it away to restore or use for parts later on. I love old well made equipment and would much rather rebuild something old than just toss it and get a new one that is designed to last out the warranty at best and is made to be almost impossible to repair. Over the years ALL my sources for these things (short of garage/yard sales etc.) have dried up as the businesses either went under or simply stopped even stripping parts from older equipment. I'm afraid to report that here (where there used to be several huge appliance graveyards) there are now nothing but scrap metal buyers. Nobody in this area including repair people and the used appliance rebuilders, will even receive belt drive washers or (unless classic vintage) any other appliances over about 10 years old. They all go straight to the crushers!

An average Kenmore washer WITH ALL PARTS intact brings ~$8. Makes me sick, but if willing to go collect this stuff from the scrap metal yards before they can crush it, you can get any type of appliance for around $10 to $12. I used to be able to buy still working (just needing a little care) appliances from the "graveyard" for $20. Most of these were sold in lots of hundreds for bulk transport to Mexico. Now even this trade has apparently been killed by cheap Chinese goods, some of which are being assembled in Mexico from Chinese parts.

Anyway, I went to the main appliance scrap metal yard and was able to find the exact model of washer I was needing the schematic for and several others with similar parts in line for the crusher. I got 4 Kenmores for $40 cash total. I have made a high rez scan of the schematic I was looking for and have posted it here for anyone who needs it:

http://evenkeel.com/110.82172820-kenmore-schematic-complete.pdf

NOTE: This is a 2.7 MB file. Just open the pdf, rotate clockwise and zoom in for good legible detail.

I will report back when I get the entire machine in perfect shape and what I did to achieve that and when I get the time I will try to help others here on anything I can. THANKS AGAIN! GREAT HELP!

http://evenkeel.com/110.82172820-kenmore-schematic-complete.pdf

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Timer for you Mark

Mark,

The timer for your Mark XII is most likely a very custom-fit timer, that was not used in many or any other models. This is often the case in high-end models. There were similar timers used in the 1962, 63, 64 and 1965 Lady Kenmore washers, but I am nearly certain that none of those interchange with your WP.

Timers in general back in the 50s and 60s were a different situation for a couple reasons than what they were by the mid 70s onward through the end of the belt-drives and into the DDs. Timers in the 1960s were often used on just one or two models. Even though a Kenmore 70 series washer had essentially the same features from the late 50s into the late 60s, they had a different timer nearly every year. Go figure, I have no idea why except the Delicate cycle in 1963 wash lengthened in was time available from max of 4 minutes to 6, then to 8. This required a new timer. It was unusual that the timer used in the 1961 Kenmore 70 was used in the the 1962s, and again in the 1963 and 1964 500. That was more an exception than a rule.

So, as that applies to you, since your machine has the push-button click stop mechanism and probably the most feature-filled timer of the time, the best thing to do is to start by looking for timers of the same part number as your original, OR by what your machine model number would call for. I do have a WP parts catalog from 1992 that has a sub-chart for all the original "standard frame" timers and what their current replacement part numbers would be if they were still availalbe in 1992. A standard frame timer is a timer with leads all over, which are connected one at a time and usually (hopefully) color-coded for the wire color that gets plugged up to it. Beginning in the late 1960s and with gusto in the early 1970s, quick disconnect timers debuted that have a wiring harness terminal block (or two), where the whole timer is plugged in with one or two harness block(s). Machines that use these, when coupled with the later modular consoles, can receive a timer change in as few as 5 or 10 minutes where the most time consuming steps are to dismount and re-mount the console and console cover!

There are a couple sellers on ebay that have large piles of old FSP and MTS timers that may just apply to your machine. BUT, that said, it is much more difficult to keep up with the myriad of timers from the 60s than it is the handful that were used in BDs in their last 10 years or so.

In 1974 Kenmore debuted a timer that was used in potentially half or maytbe 40% of their output for the next 12 years. The timer above that is discussed in this thread makes up maybe another 30 or 40% of use, and another couple timers comprise the rest. When you're only talking about a handful of timers in a decade, its easy to be familiar with them. Same for WP's washers, which all had similar timers, but with a few custom changes to cycle sequences to fill WP model needs.

Have you checked with Midwest Timer Service or another rebuilder to see if your original timer can be sent off for rebuilding? With as much work as you put into that machine, it would probably be well worth looking into if we can't find you an original or a proper substitution timer.

Feel free to e-mail me here if you want to work on this futher, so we don't clutter our new member's thread.

Gordon

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Wandd-Collector

Wow - VERY cool that you found four machines for $40 -- I didn't need to know that though, LOL, as I will probably find myself going to a similar place around here. I am REALLY glad you got your service panel schematic - I was going to have to either disturb Mom's or get one of mine from storage and I didn't want to do that, to be honest.

Good luck with your repairs, I think these machines are very much worth a little project expedition, etc., but you probably realized that from my posts... My problem would be that if I brought home 4 more machines, I'd have 5 to repair, not one and a big source of parts!

I have very fond memories of these machines, really, belt-drives in general, but I was very familiar with them from the mid 70s on, and paid close attention when my Mom bought one in 1981 (which we later cancelled when we fixed the old machine), and again when we bought the model you have almost two years later, and when I bought mine in 1986. It is a bit disheartening to realize that so many of these are now going en masse to the metal recyclers, but they are nearly 30-year old equipment and most consumers do not follow my fervor for them.

If you would like any of my core timers, or any other help, feel free to ask any time.

Gordon

 

[wandd-collector]

Very long final report

WELL... Most of my belt drive washer repair/rebuilding has been on old Maytags because they are so simple IMHO to repair, though I have heard just the opposite from almost every repair person and rebuilding shop I ever spoke to. Most will NEVER even touch a Maytag. STRANGE. Anyway, years ago I bought one of those large lots of Maytags that was supposed to be bound for Mexico. It had 84 washers and 21 dryers (I actually prefer Whirlpool/Kenmore to Maytag on the dryers as far as working on them) and they were going to deliver to the border (about 400 miles round trip) for a total on the load of $1500. I offered them $1000 cash and would take them directly with no delivery required as my brother had a trucking company. They jumped at this one. Of course they got them free. Transportation was their only cost.

My point in mentioning this is that out of all these (a few total junkers) I only found ONE Maytag that had a defective timer. I was able to rebuild and sell over half of them mainly using parts from the others (exceptions were belts and new tub bushings and seals) for approximately $60 each on average and although I worked my ass off, I came out with a decent return. The 4 Kenmores I just got for $10 each included 3 which had the same timers as mine (2 were 376011 and 1 was another 376008 like the defective one I already had) and ALL were bad. When I took them apart they were in terrible shape. Several had vaporized switch contacts, many pitted and unusable contacts, and all 4 (including my original) had bad melting on the cams that corresponded to the switches which had overheated. One had the switch terminal that powers the little timer motor completely broken. Ironically the best timer I had was one from a freebie 1971 model that I had been given years ago and had stashed out in the shed as a possible parts source. It was not the same model timer I needed, but as the cycles on the washer matched mine, I was simply able to rewire the Molex connector on my original washer to match the configuration I needed for proper operation with this good old (actually I think this had been replaced on a repair along the line) timer and then everything was working perfectly.

HOWEVER, the very next day after I finished the repair, I found someone who had a 1992 direct drive Kenmore she wanted to get rid of. She told me the washer was perfect but the dryer was completely shot, as it needed a new heating element and made a horrible noise. She would let me have the washer for $20 if I would also haul off the junker dryer. I headed ever there yesterday morning with my tools, garden hose, extension cord, and trailer. When I arrived and saw what she had I almost couldn't believe it. They looked like they just came from the factory. Outside and inside they were essentially flawless as far as appearance.

I told her I really wanted to check out the operation of the washer before I took it even for only $20 as I had already acquired a collection of non-working Kenmores over the last couple of weeks. She said sure have at it. First thing I did was look inside the control panel box. I have never seen a used washer (much less 20 years old) that looked that perfect. Not even any tarnish or corrosion on any connectors or terminals. It was shiny and perfectly clean, with not even any dust in there. I then propped the thing up and looked underneath only to find the same thing. Absolutely perfect without even any cobwebs and absolutely no rust. I popped the hose off the pump (still very flexible and soft) and it was like brand new inside. We have horrible hard water in this area loaded with calcium, magnesium and iron to name a few, so this thing must have been used only in conjunction with a water softener. When I opened the lid the basket and agitator were also the same. I could not even find one tiny pinhead size rust spot on the gleaming white porcelain finish and even the bleach, detergent, and softener cups were perfect with no build up of any kind. I connected water and power and let her rip. Operation was flawless on all cycles and settings.

I then asked if she had a repair attempt made on the dryer and she stated heck no that she wasn't going to pay a repair bill on a 20 year old dryer that was obviously shot. I then asked why she was so sure the element was burned out. She told me that it had to be as it only heated up for about 3 or 4 minutes and then just went cold and she also kept hearing a knocking noise. I told her at that point I knew her element was not burned out and asked if she had pulled the panel and looked for lint buildup and any objects that might be causing the noise, and once again was told heck no.

At this point I decided to trade a little labor for the washer, as I already had 4 working dryers. I made her this offer. If she would give me 20 minutes and the use of her vacuum and a crevice tool, I could probably get her dryer working without any problems and she could keep it and I would take the washer in return. If I did not get the dryer working perfectly in 20 minutes I would pay her an extra $5 and haul the dryer off for her as well. I figured this was a magnanimous offer she wouldn't refuse. At that point she said:

You just don't understand. These are my old appliances. I am sick of them. I have already bought brand new ones ($1500+ totally programmable "steam cleaning and drying" front loaders) and I just want to get rid of these.

I told her OK and gave her a $20 bill and started loading both on the trailer. When I got back the first thing I did was pull the panel off the dryer and saw one of the largest lint balls of all time. I checked resistance through the heating circuit and as I expected everything was fine. One of the snap disc safety thermos kicking out probably saved her house from burning down! Also inside the duct, in addition to quite a collection of multi colored sequins and large amounts of glitter embedded in the lint, I found a child's toy. This I assumed was the cause of the "horrible" noise. I cleaned everything up, checked all the electrical, put it back together, plugged it in and as you might guess, it now works perfectly and quietly.

If I had just waited a few days after my timer went out, I could have saved about $80, counting purchases and gasoline, but then I would have missed all the fun of lifting heavy objects in the 100 degree heat and several hours work only to find that all I had was a huge number of spare parts, none of which I currently needed. I am now expecting the timer on the "new" perfect washer to stop working .

 

[goatfarmer]

Great story!

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Interesting story

Great story indeed.

I am glad that my parents didn't think the same way as the owner of the '92s does, because if they had, our 1974 Kenmore would have been cast out in 1981 and I'd have never had the chance to work on the machine, and call it my first automatic washer save.

Mom had the replacement bought, and scheduled for delivery. I talked them into buying the replacement basket drive (at only 7 years old this is kinda sad but apparently there was a problem with premature basket drive failures in this generation machine), which Sears told us could be bought for near wholesale, we could return it if the repair failed, OR they would finish the install job on a disassembled washer and save us labor. How could we go wrong I figured, and the rest is history. We saved the '74, I was elated, Mom cancelled the replacement (the salesman was NOT elated), and that machine lived on with us for two more years before I sold it to friends who had it at least 15 more years.

But, you've got a cool story there Wandd-Collector. I guess the owner's loss is your gain! As to the Kenmores, in my experience, which is somewhat extensive in this generation of machine, it is a bit unusual to have five 1980s machines and all still have theie original timers, essentially 30 years later. It doesn't seem unusual at all for the original motor to last the life of the machine, but the original timer is often replaced by now. I would stop before I said these timers are a weak spot, because they usually fail after the machine has provided its intended lifetime of service (which I think was 12-15 years or so?) but they are not the most durable part of the machine either. When I come across machines of this era now, I'd estimate that half of them have replacement timers in them. Some you call tell just by their sound and feel.

I'd love to see some pictures of the machines you got for $40 some day! The timers could be all that is wrong with all of them. Good luck with the '92s!

Gordon

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Interesting story

Great story indeed.

I am glad that my parents didn't think the same way as the owner of the '92s does, because if they had, our 1974 Kenmore would have been cast out in 1981 and I'd have never had the chance to work on the machine, and call it my first automatic washer save.

Mom had the replacement bought, and scheduled for delivery. I talked them into buying the replacement basket drive (at only 7 years old this is kinda sad but apparently there was a problem with premature basket drive failures in this generation machine), which Sears told us could be bought for near wholesale, we could return it if the repair failed, OR they would finish the install job on a disassembled washer and save us labor. How could we go wrong I figured, and the rest is history. We saved the '74, I was elated, Mom cancelled the replacement (the salesman was NOT elated), and that machine lived on with us for two more years before I sold it to friends who had it at least 15 more years.

But, you've got a cool story there Wandd-Collector. I guess the owner's loss is your gain! As to the Kenmores, in my experience, which is somewhat extensive in this generation of machine, it is a bit unusual to have five 1980s machines and all still have theie original timers, essentially 30 years later. It doesn't seem unusual at all for the original motor to last the life of the machine, but the original timer is often replaced by now. I would stop before I said these timers are a weak spot, because they usually fail after the machine has provided its intended lifetime of service (which I think was 12-15 years or so?) but they are not the most durable part of the machine either. When I come across machines of this era now, I'd estimate that half of them have replacement timers in them. Some you call tell just by their sound and feel.

I'd love to see some pictures of the machines you got for $40 some day! The timers could be all that is wrong with all of them. Good luck with the '92s!

Gordon