Condensed All Detergent With "Bleach, Borax and Brightners"

[launderess]

Did we ever reach a conclusion as to what is in this stuff?

One is working one's way through huge box of the stuff (made by Lever Bros) but the packaging gives nil idea of content.

We know the stuff is laden with phosphates (that is where the "condensed" comes in, and bluing agents, but wonder about what else.

For one thing whites routinely laundered in the stuff take on a rather odd blue tinge especially elastic and other man made fibers. That and things began to obtain a tattle-tale gray cast.

Decided to do a "boil wash" last night in the Miele since one hasn't in a while, just to clean out the machine and deal with a load of laundry containing items someone had been sick with.

Used Tide "free and gentle" liquid and oxygen bleach because one wanted to see if there was any residue in the fabrics from the All. And how!

As the very hot wash water drained all sorts of solids/residue came out. Took three extra rinses to obtain a clear rinse but was rewarded with blindly white laundry. Traces of grey and "blue" mostly gone.

Know Lever Bros at first used Monsanto's formula for All but then made some changes, however despite a long night researching cannot find out just what is in this detergent.

Am going to stick with modern or at least detergents from the 1980's or so for awhile. What is telling about this All detergent is that according to the box one can use the stuff to clean woodwork and walls! *LOL*

 

[frigilux]

..."With Bleach, Borax and Brighteners: The three B's"

I listen to a lot of old radio show podcasts from the 1930's-1940's, and there is one brand of detergent that is recommended for "bathing baby, washing floors, woodwork, and dishes, and for all your laundry." Yeesh! A little too "all-purpose" for my tastes, thanks.

Bluish tint from All: I suppose this detergent, made for dilution in a large amount of water, can leave some tell-tale blue behind when in highly-concentrated conditions.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The product was actually sold without phosphates, at least locally, in the late 70s/early 80s when it was one of the two low sudsers left on the market.

There should be a statement of phosphate percentage on the box. That triple-B formula came out in the 70s, I believe, and most detergents had started posting phosphate content by then.

 

[launderess]

Box Has Nothing

No phosphate content, ingredients, class of same; nada, zip, nil....

Only television commercials one remembers are those featuring the actors from that old show "Get Smart". *LOL*

My box looks much like the one featured here so maybe mid 1970's

 

[supersuds]

Perhaps I can assist you in your enquiries, Launderess

I've got two boxes of the 3B All. One is marked LOW PHOSPHATES and has a statement that it averages 8.7% phosphorus -- if that's low, what was it before!

 

The other is 7.5% phosphorus and has ingredients listed, as seen (I hope) in the picture (click to enlarge, of course).

 

Not surprised that it has anonic surfactants, since these are supposed to be be low/no sudsing, but was a little surprised that it also has soap. It definitely has at least some perborate and borax, as well.

 

I have not had any problem with whites getting a blue tinge, but 1) I have a toploader, and 2) I've alternated with other detergents. Whites seem very white in limited usage, though. YMMV, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

[roscoe62]

Launderess

was the oxygen bleach you combined with the Tide Free & Gentle a liquid or a powder? Would you say the combination worked as well as Persil Universal?
After I read your posting it may explain why I get a pinkish tint in some of my clothes when using other detergents that just won't give results that you get with the Persil and it is usually when doing whites.
Tks

 

[tomturbomatic]

The soap was added to ALL to help cut down the sudsing. It was a cheap way to do it and risked leaving a film on the fabrics because soap and detergent were not supposed to be mixed, but the oil in soap would knock down detergent sudsing. It was fun to destroy a nice suds cake by sprinkling Ivory Snow on it and listening to the suds bubbles hiss away; a variation on, "I'm melting."

 

[launderess]

@supersuds

Thank you for the pictures! Don't know if my version is high on sodium sulfate (filler) as yours. Just does not seem as fluffy as other powders loaded with that stuff. Maybe the addition of more sodium sulfate was a tradeoff when going from "Condensed" to "concentrated" ALL.

Phosphate content of the older All (my version) must have been up there if as you say "low" is now only 8.7%.

Soap in low foaming detergents.

Persil and many other detergents from both sides of the pond contain soap. IIRC even some versions of Tide as well.

Non-anionic surfactants are pretty low foaming on their own but do not pack the same oil/grease cleaning power as anionic surfactants (the first replacement for soaps), so often a bit of soap is added to detergents both with or in place of anionic surfactants to help boost cleaning power.

Yes, soap will act as foam suppressor but silicones and other oils are far better (it is the oil in soap that breaks up froth), which is why detergents now contain silicones to control froth but still use soap for purposes mentioned above.

Oxygen bleach:

Can be added to either liquid, gel or powdered detergents. I do and have done so with all liquid or gel detergents for ages. As mentioned many times both by myself and others in the group and elsewhere liquid detergents do/cannot contain oxygen bleach. This is why they often rank low in stain removal since certain soils won't shift totally without.

Mind you Tide coldwater liquid (the now gone free and clear version) seems to work very well without oxygen bleach. Use it on badly stained table linen that is also coloured and thus cannot take oxygen bleach. Results are very good usually.

 

[supersuds]

Very interesting! Yes, the high amount of sodium sulfate surprised me too. The box with the ingredients list has a different dosage -- three-fourths cup for a top loader -- than the LOW PHOSPHATES box, which says to start with one- half cup. Maybe they were having problems with the highly condensed product.

I did not know that soap was being used in modern Europen detergents either. It's always an education reading your posts, Launderess.

Speaking of uses of soap, someone, perhaps Tom, mentioned once that Dash used fish oil to suppress suds!

 

[launderess]

If you go to P&G's website for Tide detergents and look up ingredients in some of their liquids and perhaps powders you will see "soap", then a blurb about how it "improves cleaning".

Here is a partial ingredient list from UK Persil:

"Ingredients. Persil Biological Washing Capsules contain: 15-30%: Anionic Surfactants, Soap, Non-Ionic Surfactants,; <5%: Perfume, Phosphonates, Butylphenyl ..."

US3706675A - Detergent composition with thermo-controlled foaming capacity - Google Patents

FOAMING AT LOW WASHING TEMPERATURE IS OBTAINED WITHOUT OVER-FOAMING AT HIGH TEMPERATURES. THE FOAM-CONTROLLING AGENT IS AN EFFECTIVE AMOUNT OF A MATERIAL SELECTED FROM THE GROUP CONSISTING OF CYCLIZED FATTY ACIDS AND SODIUM SALTS OF SUCH ACIDS, SAID ACIDS BEING ESSENTIALLY OBTAINED FROM...

www.google.com

 

[launderess]

Sodium Sulfate

Is a filler and don't think my older version contains that much if any. Say this because wash and rinse waters are clear, not cloudy as you get with some other powders (can you say Tide) that often are loaded with the stuff.

 

[jamiel]

All with Bleach, Borax and Brighteners--the 3Bs was just sodium perborate (taking care of the bleach and borax) with a optical brightener of the time; it was condensed or concentrated by not being spray-dried in the same manner as P&G detergents. Soap was for both cleaning and foam suppression. Anionic surfactants to avoid the suds...believe they were more effective on greasy soil and less so on clay-type soils (although I could have it backwards).

My grandfather worked at Monsanto in 1949 or so on All (he was a chemist) so I learned about this type of stuff as a kid