S/B=> should be
NOT
B/B=> Bare-back. or BIG-BOTTOM LOL (BLUSH)
NOT
B/B=> Bare-back. or BIG-BOTTOM LOL (BLUSH)
cookmaster crisis!
- Thread starter dalangdon
- Start date
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So the recovery continues
I have separated the three wires that control the oven: a black wire, a Red wire, and Red with white stripe wire. As we know, the cookmaster works as a switch, and ideally, when set on manual, let's the juice flow between these three (I think the red and red/white are feeds to the thermostat)
So here's the 240volt question: How do I bypass this thing? I don't care about the appliance outlet - that can stay dead - but I would like to get the oven back up and running.
I have separated the three wires that control the oven: a black wire, a Red wire, and Red with white stripe wire. As we know, the cookmaster works as a switch, and ideally, when set on manual, let's the juice flow between these three (I think the red and red/white are feeds to the thermostat)
So here's the 240volt question: How do I bypass this thing? I don't care about the appliance outlet - that can stay dead - but I would like to get the oven back up and running.
Dan, you never mentioned if you found the fuses or not? I thought all electric stoves had a fuse for the oven and one for each element. The Canadian versions also have a fuse for the outlets as well but I don't think the US models ever had that and now don't even come with an outlet.
There are some fusible links, but no fuses per se, as in the older flair.
Do you have a schematic diagram of the stove??? Cookmaster may be in line with one "leg" (110v) of the circuit. Prolly the red wire.
RCIH-645 Wiring diagram
This is re-sized on here, but you can save it to your computer and open it with a photo viewer to enlarge it so it's readable.
I thought all electric stoves had a fuse ....
I was trying to rescue an old Caloric (manual clean UGH) electric stove with coils for my basement entertaining kitchen. Couldn't get a new door to replace the broken glass one. Got the last one in inventory and UPS broke the glass during shiping @#$%%^&! [Yes UPS Pat--wink--] IIRC it was Maytag who sent the part..Never even had to bother with the broken broil element.
ANYHOO.. I found in there that all the stove was wired as if 110 v. ONE hot-leg was uninterrupted from power cord terminal block to load.
There WAS, however, a temperature limiting safey device (one-time only and non-resettable) that would kill power to the bake and broil elements should the oven become too hot.
Let me explain this for Europe and locals.
For 220v here, power is taken from TWO hot leads in the panel box ("conusmer unit"=> UK). Neither lead/leg is a grounded (earthed==> UK) condutor.
Therefore rather than a ground-fault causing a fuse to blow, as in a 110v circuit. A ground-fault could cause a 110v current to flow to each 110v circuit.
[one hot to ground--the fault--one way and again the other way]
around it (or to the fault actually), and perhaps not blow a fuse because the voltage and amperage is lower than regular use. In theory an element could "turn-on" by itself. Hence the thermal limiter.
I was trying to rescue an old Caloric (manual clean UGH) electric stove with coils for my basement entertaining kitchen. Couldn't get a new door to replace the broken glass one. Got the last one in inventory and UPS broke the glass during shiping @#$%%^&! [Yes UPS Pat--wink--] IIRC it was Maytag who sent the part..Never even had to bother with the broken broil element.
ANYHOO.. I found in there that all the stove was wired as if 110 v. ONE hot-leg was uninterrupted from power cord terminal block to load.
There WAS, however, a temperature limiting safey device (one-time only and non-resettable) that would kill power to the bake and broil elements should the oven become too hot.
Let me explain this for Europe and locals.
For 220v here, power is taken from TWO hot leads in the panel box ("conusmer unit"=> UK). Neither lead/leg is a grounded (earthed==> UK) condutor.
Therefore rather than a ground-fault causing a fuse to blow, as in a 110v circuit. A ground-fault could cause a 110v current to flow to each 110v circuit.
[one hot to ground--the fault--one way and again the other way]
around it (or to the fault actually), and perhaps not blow a fuse because the voltage and amperage is lower than regular use. In theory an element could "turn-on" by itself. Hence the thermal limiter.
After all that drama, and wanting get this fixed but being afraid of electricity, It hit me.
stoveclockrepair.com
I don't know why I didn't think of them before, as they have fixed other stove clocks for me, and are perfectly capable of repairing the cookmaster part as well.
Since I'm going to be gone starting next Monday through the New Year, I'm not going to need the stove anyway, so let them deal with it.
Thanks for the Schematic, Greg - I will definitely need it when it comes time to hook the clock back up, and it's a good thing to have handy anyway.
stoveclockrepair.com
I don't know why I didn't think of them before, as they have fixed other stove clocks for me, and are perfectly capable of repairing the cookmaster part as well.
Since I'm going to be gone starting next Monday through the New Year, I'm not going to need the stove anyway, so let them deal with it.
Thanks for the Schematic, Greg - I will definitely need it when it comes time to hook the clock back up, and it's a good thing to have handy anyway.
so is this "crisis in the kitchen" resolved. I've hardly slept a wink with worry LOL
I've often wondered about the differences between Canadian and US electric stoves...the Canadian ones are different--walk through The Bay and you can see differences:
1. Size...Cdn has the 24" wide commonly, you very rarely see it in the US.
2. Outlet...Canada still allows the outlet on the stove--as I recall the US CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) outlawed them in about 1970.
3. Coils...there is a subtly different shape to some of the Canadian "easy clean" coils where they pivot up (twist) rather than plug out
4. Electric...seems like much less cooking with gas in Canada than in the US.
From walking through those stores, it looks like there are 2 Cdn stove manufacturers still--the one which makes most of the stoves (and stacks the controls right and left which makes a lot of sense) and Frigidaire in Quebec which makes all their built-in equipment for US and Canada (do they make regular ranges as well?)
I wonder if I could legally bring a Canadian stove back through customs? Frankly, I grew up with my mother and grandmother always using the outlet on the stove so it seems really normal to me to have one.
JL
1. Size...Cdn has the 24" wide commonly, you very rarely see it in the US.
2. Outlet...Canada still allows the outlet on the stove--as I recall the US CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) outlawed them in about 1970.
3. Coils...there is a subtly different shape to some of the Canadian "easy clean" coils where they pivot up (twist) rather than plug out
4. Electric...seems like much less cooking with gas in Canada than in the US.
From walking through those stores, it looks like there are 2 Cdn stove manufacturers still--the one which makes most of the stoves (and stacks the controls right and left which makes a lot of sense) and Frigidaire in Quebec which makes all their built-in equipment for US and Canada (do they make regular ranges as well?)
I wonder if I could legally bring a Canadian stove back through customs? Frankly, I grew up with my mother and grandmother always using the outlet on the stove so it seems really normal to me to have one.
JL
4. Electric...seems like much less cooking with gas in Canada than in the US
IIRC the general building insulation standards requrired in Cananda FAR exceed our own.
I believe with a source of air pollution (gas stove) in a tightly sealed space, it becomes legally necessary there to have a mechanical air-exchanger (heat-recovery ventilator).
The expense and mechanics necessary to have a gas stove then becomes a hassle.
Perhaps the water-vapor given off by combustion is also a probem.
Does Cananda have mostly 24 inch (60cm stove?) I thought every one I saw was a 30 incher (75 cm).
Perhaps PeteK can fill us in with accuracies...
IIRC the general building insulation standards requrired in Cananda FAR exceed our own.
I believe with a source of air pollution (gas stove) in a tightly sealed space, it becomes legally necessary there to have a mechanical air-exchanger (heat-recovery ventilator).
The expense and mechanics necessary to have a gas stove then becomes a hassle.
Perhaps the water-vapor given off by combustion is also a probem.
Does Cananda have mostly 24 inch (60cm stove?) I thought every one I saw was a 30 incher (75 cm).
Perhaps PeteK can fill us in with accuracies...
Heat Recovery Ventilator
Honeywell has one too..
Honeywell has one too..
The only 24 inch stoves I've ever seen in all my years have been in apartments, I've never known anyone to have one in their house, 36 inch is the standard size, the big wide double ovens disappeared in the 60's altogether.
It's my understanding after asking around that electric stoves were probably the only appliance where there was a difference being that the Canadian models all had consumer replaceable fuses including for the outlets and not all US models did. That's probably why the Flairs weren't sold here if they only had fusible links. While nothing would stop you from buying one and bringing it home, if it caused a problem like a fire in your house your insurance would be void.
There aren't any differences in the standards for all other household appliances, so long as it has a UL or CSA sticker it's fine.
I don't think there's any difference in the ratio of gas vs electric stoves than the US, plenty of people have gas stoves.
Installation and building codes are set by each province not by the federal government so those can vary but are generally similar across the board. Gas stoves and dryers don't need any special ventilation in Alberta whereas gas fireplaces have to be vented here. Cities or municipalities can also add onto the codes as they see fit, they just can't dilute them.
Not any different than in the US in that regard.
It's my understanding after asking around that electric stoves were probably the only appliance where there was a difference being that the Canadian models all had consumer replaceable fuses including for the outlets and not all US models did. That's probably why the Flairs weren't sold here if they only had fusible links. While nothing would stop you from buying one and bringing it home, if it caused a problem like a fire in your house your insurance would be void.
There aren't any differences in the standards for all other household appliances, so long as it has a UL or CSA sticker it's fine.
I don't think there's any difference in the ratio of gas vs electric stoves than the US, plenty of people have gas stoves.
Installation and building codes are set by each province not by the federal government so those can vary but are generally similar across the board. Gas stoves and dryers don't need any special ventilation in Alberta whereas gas fireplaces have to be vented here. Cities or municipalities can also add onto the codes as they see fit, they just can't dilute them.
Not any different than in the US in that regard.
YUP. I saw lotsa 30 inch stoves in Canada, but in stores, did not see acutal homes.
Pete: Electric cooking in the US FAR outnumbers gas cooking- same in Canada? Also AS A CLASS (depite outnumbering gas), there are far fewer injuries, accidents and fires with electric.
Here many states and municipalities do not allow un-vented gas logs or gas fireplaces or gas heaters.
To get gas logs, even, you have to get out of NYC and go elsewhere in NYS.
Kerosene heaters are NOT allowed NYC. Fire hazard; and MAJORLY unhealthy in that they are unvented.
Pete: Electric cooking in the US FAR outnumbers gas cooking- same in Canada? Also AS A CLASS (depite outnumbering gas), there are far fewer injuries, accidents and fires with electric.
Here many states and municipalities do not allow un-vented gas logs or gas fireplaces or gas heaters.
To get gas logs, even, you have to get out of NYC and go elsewhere in NYS.
Kerosene heaters are NOT allowed NYC. Fire hazard; and MAJORLY unhealthy in that they are unvented.
Don't get me started on unvented combustion heaters...major trauma of my childhood...I 6 or 7, my brother 2 or 3. Visiting my great-grandmother (we called her Grandmother) in Tulsa OK in the biiiiiig house (so big it had an elevator--my great-grandfather was the first county judge (literally--at statehood) for Tulsa county Oklahoma so you can picture the big victorian in which he lived. Grandmother moved into Oral Roberts' retirement center in 1970 (and lived there until 1992, passing away at 104), so this must have been 1969
Anyway, us boys off to bed, the parents and Grandmother down in the parlor. I wake up and see the unvented gas heater (probably just the pilot) and get scared. Cry out for my parents or someone, but the house was so big that they couldn't hear...my brother woke up and got them up to the bedroom.
To this day I cross on the other side of the room if I encounter one of them.
Anyway, us boys off to bed, the parents and Grandmother down in the parlor. I wake up and see the unvented gas heater (probably just the pilot) and get scared. Cry out for my parents or someone, but the house was so big that they couldn't hear...my brother woke up and got them up to the bedroom.
To this day I cross on the other side of the room if I encounter one of them.
Well that IS scary..
I fear them for other reasons..
I fear them for other reasons..
