CR Creates New Dishwasher Detergent Test/Standard

[launderess]

After floods of complaints from readers about the new phosphate free dishwasher detergents leaving a white coating on glassware and discoloring uncoated alumium CR decided to add a new test for rating DW detergents.

Having only begun testing so far only dw detergent cleaned well and didn't cause white film on glassware nor discolor aluminum was Cascade Complete Action Pacs.

CR's top rated dw detergent, Finish Quantum gave excellent cleaning results, and did not discolour aluminum,but as of yet no information about glassware.

All in all only three dw detergents rated "excellent" for cleaning; Finish Quantum, Finish PowerBalls and the aformentioned Cascade. Every single other dw detergent on the market tested by CR ranked good to fair.

 

[ironrite]

Finish Quantum

I started using Quantum when it was released. It cleans very well, though with our crappy water I will occasionally throw some Lemi-Fresh in the Bosch dishwasher to keep the stainless steel looking good. Back in February I bought two aluminum ice cream scoops. The silver colored one just gets rinsed as it is a sealed scoop with some sort of antifreeze sealed inside. The dark one you fill with hot water and then cap the end.

The dark one was the same silver as the other scoop, but washed once with Quantum. No Lemi-Fresh used.

Don't have any problems with glassware, just the occasional spots, but that's our water here. The rest of my cookware is stainless and no problems with discoloring.

 

[mattl]

I like the Finish Quantum, but find it too pricey.  I bought a lot of Cascade complete last year and have picked up some Commercial Cascade at Gorden's so I'm good for now, but at some point I will need more.

 

[gansky1]

The Quantum pacs tend to foam in my KitchenAid but haven't tried them since they were reformulated without phosphates. I have a pretty big stash of Cascade with (oxy) Bleach powder that I love and lots of the gel-pac Cascade, both phosphated. I have bought some of the non-phos. Cascade and Finish with chlorine bleach but mixed them with STPP and found them to work as well as the phosphate-rich versions.

Tonight at the grocery, I saw some Cascade pacs in Thai Dragon Fruit scent. It puzzles me why the perfume is necessary to consumers whose objective is clean dishes. It will be interesting to see what CR finds in their tests, judging by some of the reviews on the Cascade site, it probably won't be good for detergent makers.

 

[frigilux]

The reformulated detergents have turned all my 13" x 9" aluminum cake pans dark, gun-metal gray. I don't mind. They just look different. After using regular Cascade pacs, I switched my daily driver to Sam's Club pacs (the packaging said "Compare to Cascade Pacs). The Cascade pacs were $19.00 for 110. The Sam's Club pacs were about $12.50 for 110. They do a great job in soft water, but don't handle pots/pans as well as Finish PowerBall tabs. I keep both in the house.

My prediction: Manufacturers will market something to remove the white film build-up on glassware. Why fix the current product if you can make more selling people two products?

 

[maytagbear]

White film build up on glasses

Glass Magic?

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[tomturbomatic]

One of our TV stations had a rather dramatic film clip from CU about this testing. They started with clear glass dishes and by halfway through the tests with some detergents, the dishes looked like plain white Corelle. It was amazing.

 

[henry200]

Am I living in a parallel universe?

 I have never, ever had any white film or deposits on my dishes/glassware whether using phospate or non-phosphate, liquid, powder or tab-type detergents.   Is water hardness the underlying problem? 

 

[hunter]

I thought I was the only one

MattL said:

>I like the Finish Quantum, but find it too pricey.

I thought I was the only one who looked at the prices of most of the dishwasher stuff, including ALL the tabs, and found them shockingly expensive.

Some of them are upwards of $.40 per load here (Colorado). I find that..wow.

I run my dishwasher AT LEAST once each day and at weekends, usually twice (we do batch cooking for the week). Since allergies mean we eat every meal at home, or carry lunch/whatever with us...there are a lot of dishes.

 

[passatdoc]

do the Cascade packs fit inside a Bosch soap dispenser?

California has not (yet) banned phosphates in DW detergent. As far as I know, we still use the old formulation. No white spots on glasses.

The problem with discoloring aluminum has been around forever. I just decide whether the color is important or not. I have a Whirley-Pop aluminum popcorn popper (my third, they don't last forever) that I hand wash. I used to wash its predecessors in the DW and they turned an ugly gun metal gray. The manufacturer's directions say "hand wash only" so that's what I do, to preserve the polished aluminum exterior finish. I've also recently learned that Bar Keeper's Friend will remove dark brown stains from the interior better than a DW, so that's another reason to wash by hand.

If it's baking pans, or the aluminum cooking insert of a rice cooker, I don't care about appearance and I put those in DW. The rice cooker insert has a nonstick coating that is DW-safe, it's only the outer surface---that you can't see when you're using it, since it's inserted into the cooker---that discolors.

Any of you Bosch owners have an issue with various "packs" not fitting inside the soap dispenser?? My parents once gave me an unused box of Sunlight (I think) packs which did not fit in their KA dispenser and they barely fit in my Bosch. My Bosch came with a sticker in the rim stating "Bosch recommends Electra-Sol tablets and Jet Dry" and that's what I've used since Day one, with ten years of outstanding service (and no service calls). Currently I'm using the Finish (neé Electrasol 3-in-1 Powerball tabs and they work fine. The ones I have were purchased at Costco. Costco doesn't always have them in stock, but when they do, I snap up a cannister, generally about $9 for 100 tabs, or 9 cents per wash.

 

[henry200]

Pricey tabs

The tabs are more expensive per load than powders.   I haven't seen any remarkably better results when using them and, since I run at least one full load each day a powdered detergent, usually either Finish or Seventh Generation is far more economical for me.  I'm curious to find out what works best in my KD-12 when that dishwasher goes into regular service.

 

[petek]

We switched to Finish Quantum tabs awhile back. I find they work the best at not leaving anything behind which would happen occasionally with the regular powerballs or the Cascade brands. I don't pre-rinse although the partner does when he occasionally loads, very occasionally. .I'm the loader, he's the unloader. So whenever he sees me loading unrinsed dishes it turns into a fuss and of course I argue what the hell is the point of having a dishwasher if you're washing the dishes first LOL
Anyways,, since we started using the Quantum I haven't heard him shrieking about any leftovers on the dishes... But really I'm not that fussy.. so what if every 2 or 3 loads one measly fork or dish comes out with a speck of food on it out of the hundreds that didn't.

 

[passatdoc]

Are the Finish Quantum tabs the same size as Powerball tabs? I have a pretty tight fit in my Bosch dispenser. Something significantly larger would not fit.

 

[whirlcool]

One thing I've noticed about the Finish Quantum tabs is that they leave a residue behind on the dishes.

I first noticed this with my Cory all glass coffee pot. I wash both halves of it in the DW. It comes out spotless. But when the coffee is peculating in the upper chamber I have a lot of foam in there with the coffee. It dissipates when the water drains out. I have found that if I rinse both parts of the coffee maker with plain water before brewing a foam develops and rinses away. Then when I brew the coffee I don't get any foaming in the pot.

We currently are not using any rinse agent in the DW as the Quantum tabs already have it built into them. So is this foam left over rinse agent from the Quantum tabs?

 

[ironrite]

Just Doing Dishes

The Quantum tabs fit in my Bosch. There is some room to spare. I do use a rinse aid in mine. No specific brand, just whatever is on sale. I have tried the Cascade jelpacks and those fit fine as well.

 

[petek]

No foaming here with them. I don't use rinse aid either since it's built in.. bugs me that the rinse-aid light can't be turned off though on our KA

 

[passatdoc]

What's really different about the Quantum tabs vs the Powerball tabs? Powerball tabs have a blue and a white layer too, plus a red ball. There must be some difference in the composition.

 

[roto204]

Hard water

Yes. The lack of phosphates to condition the water causes the mineral buildup, and hence, the proverbial milkglass.

If you have softer water naturally--or soft water mechanically--you won't see this.

We were able to use any phosphate-free detergent we wanted in Oakland, where we had naturally soft water, and got excellent results. Once we moved to Tucson--hard water galore--we ran one load and all the plastics and glasses looked like they had chalk on them. Roger came to the rescue with a bag o' phosphates, but it was a serious pisser.

They should be shot for removing phosphates from detergent, then selling them back to you in products like Glass Magic. It'd be one thing if they'd reformulated the products to actually create a new solution. But they engineered a problem, and the solution was to effectively undo the engineering.

I'm glad CR is holding them to this. I rather hope they vote the chalkies "Not Acceptable."

 

[beekeyknee]

Phosphate In Dishwasher Detergent

To my knowledge some states outlawed phosphates in dishwasher detergent, so the manufactures dropped the phosphate out of all dishwasher detergent for ease of distribution. They didn't make a law saying that it couldn't be sold separately in another package. Thus, Glass Magic and similar products.

More phosphate probably goes down the toilet than go in the dishwasher or washing machine as it is used for fertilizer. It's also used in other industry. It also can contain heavy metals and radiation. It's one of those "Love-Hate" relationships. Personally, I'll continue to use phosphate whenever possible or needed. My body is probably completely contaminated already.

We could all get water softeners. Then extreme amounts of salt would go into the sewers. This would cause all kinds of other ecological problems.

Personally, I have a water softener and use phosphates. No hard water problems and a clean house, clothes, dishes, and very few appliance problems.

I think what would really solve the problems would be an extreme drop in population, but nobody wants to talk about that. Mother nature will take care of it for us some day and it won't be pretty. In the mean time I'll continue to use softened water, use phosphates when necessary, and take my mineral supplements.

Now I'll drop this, as I don't want my post to be deleted or asked to move to "Dirty Laundry".

Take care and stay clean everybody.