~sudsshane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
Panthera~
Your posts are always interesting and informative to read.
--Thank you..
Your posts are always interesting and informative to read.
--Thank you..
'Dear Abby' Says She's for Gay Marriage
- Thread starter sikiguya
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~sudsshane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
Panthera~
"I so did not make friends in the gay rights movement for a long time because I refused to be queer the way I was supposed to be"
Would you mind elaborating on this? I am very curious to hear your response. email if you wish...
Thanks. =)
"I so did not make friends in the gay rights movement for a long time because I refused to be queer the way I was supposed to be"
Would you mind elaborating on this? I am very curious to hear your response. email if you wish...
Thanks. =)
Shane,
I suppose it is a characteristic of all oppressed groups (Jews, blacks, women, here in Germany, Turks) that there is a tremendous degree of peer presure to conform to certain role models.
My generation (I'm 10 years older than you) had the first taste of real freedom, thanks to those brave souls who fought and bled and died before us...Christopher Street was once a real place where real homosexuals fought and bled and not just a hysterical day to run around pretending to be every mother's worst fear.
At the same time as the genuine progress of the sexual revolution, women's rights and some basic advances in human rights for minorities a very large number of people were so threatened (my interpretation) by other people doing what they wanted to do that they truly felt they had an obligation to 'free' such poor souls (like me) of our illusions of love and devotion by denying us the right to marry. And I am talking about homosexuals here!
I won't go into the socio-psychological background of this, but it seems there are only two personality types in this world. Those who believe in 'live and let live' and those who need to tell you how to live the 'right' way.
A man named Andrew Sullivan (I can hear the groans already and yes, he and I are not ideologically close on 99,99% of the issues so let's not and say we didn't) has documented and written on just this topic over the last several years. Some of his books defending gay marriage rights are well worth reading. As a conservative Irish Catholic, he brings a Jesuit (speling?, sorry) mindset to his arguments which appeals to my logic.
If it were up to me, we would enjoy equal status to heterosexual marriage including the right to adopt and raise children. Should cloning or masculine child-bearing become possible (or XX paired reproduction for women) then I am all in favor of those rights, too.
Let's throw your question open to everyone. Since I left the US back in 1983 to live in a country where gays have human rights, there is a lot of US gay history I missed out on. What is your feeling on things?
www.andrewsullivan.com
I suppose it is a characteristic of all oppressed groups (Jews, blacks, women, here in Germany, Turks) that there is a tremendous degree of peer presure to conform to certain role models.
My generation (I'm 10 years older than you) had the first taste of real freedom, thanks to those brave souls who fought and bled and died before us...Christopher Street was once a real place where real homosexuals fought and bled and not just a hysterical day to run around pretending to be every mother's worst fear.
At the same time as the genuine progress of the sexual revolution, women's rights and some basic advances in human rights for minorities a very large number of people were so threatened (my interpretation) by other people doing what they wanted to do that they truly felt they had an obligation to 'free' such poor souls (like me) of our illusions of love and devotion by denying us the right to marry. And I am talking about homosexuals here!
I won't go into the socio-psychological background of this, but it seems there are only two personality types in this world. Those who believe in 'live and let live' and those who need to tell you how to live the 'right' way.
A man named Andrew Sullivan (I can hear the groans already and yes, he and I are not ideologically close on 99,99% of the issues so let's not and say we didn't) has documented and written on just this topic over the last several years. Some of his books defending gay marriage rights are well worth reading. As a conservative Irish Catholic, he brings a Jesuit (speling?, sorry) mindset to his arguments which appeals to my logic.
If it were up to me, we would enjoy equal status to heterosexual marriage including the right to adopt and raise children. Should cloning or masculine child-bearing become possible (or XX paired reproduction for women) then I am all in favor of those rights, too.
Let's throw your question open to everyone. Since I left the US back in 1983 to live in a country where gays have human rights, there is a lot of US gay history I missed out on. What is your feeling on things?
The Dish
After the concentration camps were liberated, only the homosexual prisoners went back to prison because of that famous section in German law. Were they ever released or did they just die in prison? So much for learning lessons from the tragedy. To say that the Jews and the Roma and the Slavic people should not have been targets of terror, but then exclude the homosexuals just shows how compartmentalized people's minds can be. Who put the mental in compartmentalized? Other people who suffered under the NAZIS were able to have their freedom and, in many cases, leave the hellish continent behind. Several years ago, there was an article in the Post about our Holocaust Memorial Museum's exhibit on the plight of the Jehova's Witnesses during the period when so many were sent to camps. The reporter talked to a large group of Jehova's Witnesses after they visited the exhibits. The reporter was discussiing the plight of all of the victims and the group was in complete agreement until she mentioned the homosexuals. WHAM! A wall fell separating the JWs from the homosexual prisoners. "We are not like them." The reporter reminded the group that every person, every group was sent to the camps because of who they were. A few admitted that there might be some truth to that. It was interesting to see the quick demise of the little sympathy most people have for one another in a horrible situation, when you try to include them all in a group containing those that they hate. Ah, but where would religion be if it were not for tribalism, xenophobia and hate of others? All are brothers and sisters, children of the Creator; yeah, bet on it and go broke. Where would most of organized religion be if members of one group were not taught to excoriate and exclude others who were not like them. This is not the Creator's doing, but mankind's. One of the greatest tragedies and absolutely horrible mistakes of creation was letting religious leadership fall into the hands of human beings. Religous leaders have sought to keep truth and power for themselves as a way of controling the masses under them with fear and ignorance. I believe the world would be so much better if the Creator directly communicated to each soul, maybe before birth into this world, a message that would be remembered by each for ever, "You are My child and I love you for all eternity. I will not stop loving you, ever, for you are a part of me. I am very interested in your life and all that you do and I look forward to discussing it with you, often. Now let's have a kiss and a big hug before your big adventure. Your life is always in My hands so do not be afraid. Remember this is your real home. We will always be here for you. Keep in touch my child. I love you so much."
