Deciding between old GE and KitchenAid Hobart

[jkm]

We have small house built in 1950 that we are setting up as time capsule, so to speak. We have secured a '57 Frigidaire range and '54 GE Fridge. Both were inspected and refurbed by a local appliance specialists specializing in the respective appliances.

When it came to getting a modern dishwasher though the problem with getting a white dishwasher these days is that only the lower end models are have white options because stainless is all the rage. And everything is on backorder because we're waiting on chips from China to get offloaded from the boats. So then we were looked into getting a new panel ready dishwasher and one of the Northstar or overly pricy Big Chill retro panels. The panels range from $500 to $700 and they're still just going on a dishwasher designed to last only 7 to 10 years.

But then we came across these two older automatic washer models.

A GE Automatic and a KitchenAid Hobart.
Both are for sale at $100 or less and they supposedly both work.
I don't have photos of the labels yet so I haven't been able to specifically identify the models.

I've been reading up here to look out for pros and cons, and I'd appreciate feedback. I'm tempted to get both if I can find a place to store one.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[qsd-dan]

The GE would be more period correct with the rest of your kitchen appliances but will suffer in the performance, durability, and reliability areas compared to the the Kitchenaid. The GE will be harder to find parts for. Just be aware that you will be the repairmen/person if either machine requires attention. Nobody is going to bother chasing down obsolete parts and most are not going to bother trying to repair them, even if they have the knowledge, which most don't.

[this post was last edited: 10/29/2021-23:54]

 

[jamiel]

TBH either would be perfectly correct as a replacement for, setting the stage, a GE drawer dishwasher installed when the house was new, then swapped out for another GE in 1969, or hung onto for a littttle longer until 1979 when milady just COULDNT see herself with a plastic (Permatuf) dishwasher and wanted the best at the time (but saw no value at not having a dial to turn...KA

 

[jkm]

Repair and years

Actually, if we need repair the house is in Oklahoma City which happens to be home to Tyson's Appliance Restoration. They specialize in restoration and repair of older appliances. That said he mostly gets stoves and heaters and did say it was harder to get parts for dishwashers. But they are the one that checked out my 57 oven.

So the GE is from around 69 and the Kitchaid is probably from 79?

https://www.tysonsincrestoration.com/owner

 

[tomturbomatic]

Do you rinse dishes before loading them in the machine or do you just scrape off the food soil? Do you load pots, pans and mixing bowls in the lower rack or do you just load plates in the lower rack? If you rinse and only load plates in the lower rack you can get by with the GE. If you ask the machine to actually wash the dishes and load water blocking items in the lower rack, the KitchenAid is the machine for you. Do you see that wash arm under the upper rack? That allows you to fill the lower rack with water-blocking items and still get water to the upper rack for your cups, glasses, small bowls, plastic items etc. You should look into acquiring a rinse agent dispenser for the KitchenAid if that is the machine you buy.

 

[DADoES]

 
The KitchenAid, I believe, is a KDI-18.  18 series was in production from 11/1976 to 10/1979.

 

[syndets2000]

G E DISHWASHER age...

Very likely 1965 , just before they changed the design...it might be a year earlier, cause there's no plastic flatware shield at the base of the inner door...I'd snap it up just cause it's a historical piece in such good shape !

 

[jkm]

Thanks

Thanks to everyone for some help in identifying the models and age. And thanks to Tom for good tips on how the units can handle washing. I'm actually going to try to get both but the person listing the Kitchenaid is not responding. So we may just be happy to get the GE and thanks to Tom's tips we'll know how to work with it.

 

[panthera]

Having had GE and KA. some thoughts

Either will be better than a new machine.
Both will need occasional repairs, start looking for donor machines.
Both will have rust, no matter what. Laundress gave us some good notes on fixing that a while back.

The GE only needs to have large items, olive pits, bones, etc. scraped off. No pre-rinsing needed. A modern detergent and rinse aid will work fine. Expect the machine to break fine china and melt plastic in the bottom rack.

Loading is intuitive.

The KA prefers to be fed dishes which are pre-rinsed, not just scraped.
Modern detergents may foam a bit too much, you'll have to experiment - the KA uses a much better wash arm then the new dishwashers. You can get better results with 1/3 as much detergent.

Loading is as non-intuitive as anything can be. You'll learn. Eventually.

KA fans are a bit like apple fans, GE fans are a bit more Windows people.

We use both regularly, but the GEs are my personal favorite and my partner doesn't mind how fussy loading the KAs is.

Again, either is a better choice than the plasti-elasti junk on offer today.

 

[toploadloyalist]

KitchenAid KDI-18

That looks like the model I had in the early 80s. I've been struggling to remember it.

 

[jkm]

Got the GE

We got the GE. The Kitchen Aid was pulled off the market for some reason. I also managed to pick up a 1975 Tappan dishwasher that was still fully functional as well. It's the kind with four color panels: white, harvest gold, avocado, etc.

So the GE will likely melt plastic dishes if they're on the bottom rack? That means we my 1950s atomic Melmac dishware will be in danger if the dishwasher is not loaded correctly, right?

 

[appnut]

Yes, I wouldn't subject the melmac to a heated dry cycle. I'd love to see pics of the Tappan. Possibly could be the last of a real Tappan dishwasher.

 

[panthera]

Melmac doesn't belong in any dishwaher

I don't know why, you'd thing the melamine resin would be stable, but it's not.

The reason you can't put thermoplastics in the bottom rack of the GE is because the element heats the water pretty much whenever the motor is on and the drain solenoid is off.

They were down rated from 900Watts to 450-500Watts at some point, but even the lower wattage elements are a big reason for the outstanding performance of the Potscrubbers.

You just can't clean with tepid water.

I'd not sweat it, but no melamine resins in the Potscrubber.

(I wonder if non-chlorine detergents have changed that equation, today? Next time I have a piece of Melmac I don't care about, I'll throw it in for several washes and post the results.)

A Tappan! Cool! Pics, please!

 

[jkm]

Checking out the GE

So I found out that Tyson's Appliance only works on vintage stoves and ovens. There was a miscommunication when I talked to them about dishwashers.

So I may end up doing the maintenance myself. I was looking the GE over to see if there was any preventative items I might consider fixing now instead of letting them become a bigger problem later.

Here's the label info:
Model:
SD400B1

Serial:
ZA5-07094

Potential Item One

So this If I understand correctly this GE has a "Plastisol" liner. It looks like some kind of spray on liner on top of a metal tub. It also looks like I have a rust bubble under the plastisol or a place where it's separating from the tub. Please see the photo.

I imagine this happens. Is Plastisol something I could re-spray if I tool this part of the tub down to metal and repaired the metal?

Potential Item Two

I'm guessing the rinse glo knob is for Jet Dry or some rinse aid. It does not turn. I'm guessing I need to take the door part and clean out this unit?

Potential Item Three
The top washing arm does not hang perpendicular. It is larger on one end which could explain that. Is that normal or is something worn out?

Other questions:
1. How can I tell if this requires a 20 amp outlet?
2. I found the owners manual: https://www.automatice.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?showdoc~1415~General Electric~DW and I don't mind purchasing a service manual but I'd rather like to know if this is just a parts dishwasher or actually serviceable.
3. Has anyone found an easy garden hose to input line adapter that would allow me to hook this up to my hot water heater drain faucet and simply test the unit's operation outside?

 

[tomturbomatic]

In the late 60s & early 70s, we saw lots of Melamine plates with charred edges being brought into Rich's department store because we would take back anything, but to a customer, they had GE dishwashers with that small heating element under the lower rack and it burned up Melamine. We would not exchange the burned dishes, but we would sell them Corelle dishes. Serrated knives on stainless steel flatware carved up the plates and the arrangement of the heating elements on GE dishwashers which were put in so many homes by builders finished them off. The old bow tie impeller machines did not harm the plates because they were not racked right over the heating element.

 

[bradfordwhite]

They don't hold up to a dishwasher heating element.
They are not to be used for microwaving.
Acidic foods can cause the chemicals in the plates to leach into the food.

My guess is the stain easily and the are easily scratched when cutting food on them.

What?

I think I'll stick with my 20-40 year old Corel ware.

 

[combo52]

Best Sightly Vintage DW

First don't brother with this GE DW trying to use this as a daily driver is like trying to use a 1971 Vega as your daily driver.

 

These GE DWs were fairly reliable for 5-10 years when new but were never intended to last a long time and worst of all they only did a mediocre job at actually washing dishes when new.

 

Where the tank is rusted there is no metal left under the rust to redcoat, yes you can start building up epoxy and use some of the good sealants to fix this problem but you will just deal with it in other difficult spots elsewhere. 

 

If you want vintage get a Kitchenaid, they were light years better to begin with and parts are still all over the place, we have a whole wall of KA parts for the KD15 KAs and on we have almost nothing for a GE like yours.

 

John L.

 

[panthera]

A few answers

Home depot and Menards both sell dishwasher hookup kits with 'universal' adapters. UPC Code #820633958697
That might meet your needs.

The top sprayer is always a bit out of perpendicular, if it spins freely, it's ok.
Plastisol...not one of GE's best ideas. Laundress has posted extensively on how to fix it and, yes, that's a rust bubble.
I like GE dishwashers. I like KA.

Some KitchenAid fans tend to be a bit...well, let's just say they never quite recovered from Consumer's Union rating the GE higher in cleaning really dirty dishes.
Never dealt with a recalcitrant Rinse-Glo cover, perhaps hot water to loosen?

 

[bradfordwhite]

I would go with a KA, even one from that era and I don't even like their one level wash arm that they used up into the 70s.

However, as others have pointed out GEs back then had a plethora of problems. It's ultimately going to be a bunch of problems.

Unless you just want it for the looks, which is understandable. Still, I think I would go with a KA over GE.

Good Luck

 

[panthera]

Loading and Washing Matter

I've dealt with a KA one-arm dishwasher in regular use for over 15 years - so I know whereof I speak when I say: I like KA, but here's the facts:

Loading in a One-Arm KA: Non-intuitive, takes many, many, many cycles of unwashed dishes to master. Ultmately, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the lower rack can't be used if the top rack is filled.
Loading in GE: Intuitive, easy, you get it off the bat. Everything delicate will be smashed or burnt to a crisp in the lower rack, that's the sole limiting factor.

Washing in a One-Arm KA: If thoroughly pre-rinsed, and loaded right and the detergent not overdosed (that bottom arm was the best design in any machine, period) then stuff in the bottom rack always gets clean. Upper rack? After many years of practice, usually.
Washing in GE: Scrape off the bones and olive pits. The rest will be washed off, all dishes washed clean and sparkly.

Were pre-Whirlpool KA better built? Yup. Did they, you know, like, clean better?
Nope. GE cleaned better, hands down. Not my opinion, tests showed it again and again.

 

[DADoES]

 
KDI-17a was the family's 1st dishwasher.  We never prerinsed anything.  Rinse/Hold was initially run accordingly to its intended usage, which was when we learned that it generally caused a foul odor by end of the day from the residual wet dirtiness so we stopped that practice and left the scraped unrinsed dishware to accumulate.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Yes, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">if</span> you can find one like this, which is about 1966 top-of-the-line Superba, you can put on a custom front and hopefully have a reliable machine.

BIG IF

I found a entry level machine like this once on the curb. It had two buttons and the timer knob and was white.   The front panel was good as new.  The lower rack had some rust issues but when connected and tried that motor was smooth as can be.

 

[jkm]

Let the testing begin. Adding a KA and Tappan to the mix.

So I paid for one and managed to pick up two others for free. (Well my time is still valuable). I picked up a universal kit at the store and made a large gauge cord. I'm going to hook them up to hot water and run them outside so I can check for leaks etc.

We have a Kitchen Aid Superba (picked up for free after 1.5 hour round trip).
GE Automatic Rinse-Glo
Tappan (picked up for free after 1 hour round trip.)

All of which were supposedly running before they were uninstalled.

I have to say the Hobart Kitchen Aid is a tank compared to the others. If we use it, I hope we can possibly get white panels to switch out that way it will match my other appliances. And the GE that I paid a few bucks for already has a problem with the plastisol that I didn't catch when buying it.

 

[appnut]

Taht KDS17 is a good one-arm wonder. That Tappan is produced by Whirlpool.

 

[bradfordwhite]

easy

Easy to change the color of the panel.

Get shiny contact paper, remove panels, clean them, wipe down with rubbing alcohol, dry, apply contact paper and fold back behind panel, re-install panels.

Might need to do 2 layers if the panel is a dark color and showing through the vinyl.

 

[steved]

Tappan

The Tappan is a Whirlpool made machine.

 

[panthera]

That KA is pretty

It seems the most aesthetically appealing.

 

[jkm]

The KitchenAid wins for now.

So the KitchenAid is the only dishwasher that worked without issues. It doesn't wash as well as a newer dishwasher but I'm sure the newer ones are not going to stick around as long. It's a good fit for our period kitchen.

Thanks to everyone for the help and to Bradfordwhite for the tip on the shiny contact paper to easily update the color.

 

[panthera]

Properly loaded ( a pain, to be sure) should be better

Any KA, including this beauty should was much better than modern dishwasher.

Have you had a chance to make sure the filters are clean (careful for broken glass!)?

Make sure the arm is free to rotate when filled?

Not overdone the detergent? Most detergent tabs made today are for the anemic modern dishwashers and over-foam in a good dishwasher. Try using powder and use all the dispensers.

You should be getting better performance, not worse. Yes, loading is a pain but still. Wish you luck!

 

[jkm]

Filters?

Thanks for the feedback.

I am actively looking for powdered detergent because I knew that was all that was available when this was made. So far I've only found liquid detergent, but I know it has to be better than the packs/pods because it's obvious that they won't fall out of the detergent door when it opens. (There was actually one stuck in the door when I picked up the unit).

Where would the filters be located? Somewhere in the bottom under the arm?

I'll check this site for the owners manual.