Deep rinse FL UK/IRL?

[MrX]

I'm just wondering which main-stream washing machines offer a deep rinse option in the UK and Ireland thesedays?

Looking for decent high capacity mid-priced machines, while a miele would be nice, a little beyond the budget I want to spend.

Zanussi/Electrolux?
Hoover Vision HD (1600)?
Bosch?
any of the Hotpoints?
LG ?

I'm thinking of sticking with Bosch, Zanussi or Hoover simply because they're well supported parts and service wise here.

Does the Hoover Vision rate at all ? Looks exceptionally well spec'd but I'm wary of Candy's engineering.

The top of the line 1600 9KG with inverter drive seems like a fantastic machine, but I've just read so many horror stories with the cheaper hoovers that I'm kind of put off.

Not over-keen on Hotpoint either.

 

[lavamat_jon]

I would safely bet Zanussi/AEG as I know they can be modded for deep rinses... deep water levels aren't in Bosch's dictionary, and I'm not sure on Hoover to say.

Jon

 

[newwave1]

MRX,
The hoover vision. I've heard and seen great things about these! I myself am going to get the 8kg in black! The sensitive care option offers 5 higher than standard rinses.

I've loved hoover since i was a nipper, when they were overtaken i was distraught. lol. The logic and newwave were my favourite models, which i now own.

When i first came across the chance to use a post takeover hoover i was scepticle. But. I was pleasantly surprized! I never came across any of the freakishly unreliable problems that i've heard of with these machines. The model in question was a Hoover Six 1600 whisper. I liked it! Washed well, good rinsing and very very quiet 1600!

So i bought the Comet equivlent of a hoover nextra 7.5kg 1400 while i was workin at comet. It was great on capacity, wash, rinse and spin results. It had super rinse option which was the same as sensitive care. So yes i would recommend a hoover vision! I'm really looking forward to getting that. But before that i'm going to fetch a hoover computer control 1100 from yorkshire!

Bosch: My brother has a current classix 1200 which with Aqua plus selected does 5 highish rinses which is a few inches up the door.

INDESIT of all brands have very high rinsing when you use their "time for you programmes" the water is half way up the door on the flash colours programme & about six inches up the door on cottons.
I found this out for myself when we looked after the "in laws"
for 2weeks.

Hotpoints are similar im sure enough people on here will vouch for that.

Hope that helps you abit!

Darren!

 

[platinum6]

Well, in terms of the best brand, Miele is the 1 to go for but they are pricey although base models start from £500 onwards. As far as deep rinsing is concerned, Miele has a Water Plus option on their machines but it can do 3 things. 1. Raise the water level on rinsing.
2. Add an extra rinse.
3. Does both of the above.
But I'm sure the instruction book tells you how to programme it. The water levels can be high on rinsing, depending on the programme but they do rinse well, regardless of water level.

Personally, I like to add extra water through the dispensing draw just to give it a deeper rinse but as I said, it rinses well enough.

You can also go for a Bosch. They're a reliable brand with some good machines in their current range. The Logixx 8 offers a 8KG load capacity and a special drum similar to that of the Honeycomb Drum in the Miele.

If I were you, I'd go for something German, they always do good reliable machines lol!

 

[jwilson00]

AEG

I've got the AEG LL1620 and when ya hit the sensitive option you get three rinses instead of two, first is a deep rinse (half way up the glass), second is a couple of inches up the glass and the third is another deep rinse half way up the glass again. By the way peeps thanks for giving me that tip its ACE!!!!

 

[2drumsallergy]

Deep Rinses

The Hotpoint (Ariston) Aqualtis uses deep rinses by default. I have sold 41 of these machines to customers whose washers were beyond economic repair. Only one complaint out of the 41; the machine had a slightly noisy main drum bearing, not a failed bearing but I think the bearing itself had been damaged during manufacture which can happen. Hotpoint replaced the machine within 48 hours without question.
I know people are very quick to condemn Indesit Company products but in reality the Aqualtis is a very good machine, extremely quiet, washes well, rinses well and has good capacity.

I bought myself a new AQGD169S 8Kg model two weeks ago and I must say I'm very impressed. I also noticed that it holds the 1600 top spin speed for almost 4 minutes and leaves cottons very dry. A 1600RPM Aqualtis has a 38% residual moisture figure most washers manage 44% including some with 1800RPM spin speeds.

David

 

[MrX]

I must say though, despite the horror stories, very few machines that I have seen, other than the really bottom of the line models of some of the cheaper brands seem to cause problems.

You can be unlucky and get a dud machine from almost any manufacturer, the key thing is that they would replace it a.s.a.p. if there were a manufacturing fault. We had a massive problem with a Bosch dishwasher and they swapped it out pretty much straight away. In Europe, you're better off going back to the retailer as they're ultimately responsible for the period of statutory warranty. Also, I've been advised not to take being fobbed off to the manufacturer by a retailer as an acceptable excuse either. They're supposed to deal with the company involved on your behalf during that period.

I also remember having a failed wash pump in a 1 yr old Zanussi Jetsystem (quite a few yrs ago). Zanussi replaced it very quickly without any fuss and the machine never caused any problems since.

But, I've rented apartments and used machines which wouldn't rate very well on reviews on here, but they were fine machines - including relatively low end Whirlpool front loaders, Tricity-Bendix and Ariston. In fact, I would say the best machine in terms of wash performance was actually a Candy (shock / horror) - can't remember the model, but it was an electronically programmed washer/dryer. It gave outstanding washing results, had excellent programme options and in the 2 years we were using it never caused an ounce of problem.

Also, my grandmother has a Hotpoint (of the Indesit era) and it gets serious use and causes absolutely no problems either. She likes it.

Our Miele W970 has had 2 repairs in its lifetime so far.
1) (Entirely our fault) someone pulled a sleeping bag zip across the edge of the door seal, it cut into it like a bread knife and the rubber seal had to be replaced (quite pricy!) like €100

2) Not our fault, one of the solonoid valves failed and the machine would intermittently not fill. The Miele engineer was able to replace the soloniod on its own without replacing the valve, which was pretty impressive form an environmental point of view as well as only costing the call out fee.

Not quite sure how old the machine is, but I'd say it's going on for about 8 or so at this stage. Can anyone date the W970 ?

 

[newwave1]

2DrumsAllergy:
Congrats on the new machine, i've been lookin at that one in currys very stylish. I'm still deciding what im goin to buy, but its looking likely i'll get the Hoover vision 8kg in black!

Are the rinses a few inches up the door on your aqualtis? The indesitcompany models seem to have great rinsing. I used my inlaws WIL163 while we looked after their house and the flashcolours programme did half way up the door rinses, so with extra rinse it does an oldschool style rinse and then a final 1200. It worked really well!

Darren

 

[2drumsallergy]

Aqualtis AQGD169S

Hi Darren,
Thank you. Yes during the rinses by default the water does come part way up the door glass and rinsing is exceptionally good even without the extra rinse option. The Aqualtis uses 70 Litres to wash and rinse 8kg of cottons, the Hoover Vision HD 8Kg models use 60 Litres 10 Litres less than the Aqualtis. The Bosch WAS32466 Logixx 8 uses only 56 Litres to wash and rinse an 8Kg load of cottons.
The Hoover Vision and the Aqualtis are both excellent machines but bear in mind that you have to buy the 8Kg Hoover Vision HD Iconic to get the (Inverter) Three Phase Induction Motor whereas all Aqualtis models feature a Three Phase Induction Motor, the AQGD169S is badged Ultra Silent and features enhanced acoustic insulation over the Super Silent models. One final point the Aqualtis AQGD169S has an LED drum light which is new to Hotpoint, it looks smart though with the huge 35cm door opening.

David.

 

[islingtonsteve]

Hey all

I had (fire at the house destroyed it) the Hoover Vision HD1400 which replaced a bosch and I thought it was a fantastic machine. No inverter motor, but was very quiet all the same. Washing and rinsing was superb with upto five rinses all of which would reach two or so inches up the door. Mine used 65 litres on water on a cottons wash. The final spin was fantastic hitting 1000+ for 9 mins of the final 12.

Funny enough the place I am renting while I get my house back together after the fire has the exact same Bosch exceel 1400 machine that I replaced with the vision and it's a complete disapointment going back to it. It's noisier, and the rinsing and final spin is crap in comparision. I find myself only washing half loads just to be able to get clothes to rinxe to an acceptable level.

Can't comment on the Aqualtis - but have heard good things about them and it's the first time that I've ever been tempted by a hotpoint.

 

[MrX]

Sorry to hear you'd a fire!

Thanks for the info, seems the Vision isn't too bad.

In general I'm finding that most manufacturers are quite ok at T.O.L. seems their cheap and nasty products can quite easily kill a good reputation.

i.e. Candy using the Hoover badge on their really basic machines in the 1990s.

I'd say they'd be far better off using the Hoover badge for TOL and Candy or some other badge on the 'Value' products.

 

[mielabor]

I am curious to know why people want deep rinses. I can only think of two reasons: the fun aspect of the splashing or the need for reduced mechanical action. If the goal is to remove detergent residues after washing then it is far more important to have a large number of rinses than to have deep rinses.

Example: After washing and draining 1 litre of suds remain in the clothes. Now we add 99 litres of water (a very deep rinse I would say). The result is a volume of 100 litres with 1 litre of the original suds. Therefore the suds will be diluted 100 times in one deep rinse. Next we start also with 1 litre of suds remaining in the clothes and we add 9 litres of water. As a result the suds will be diluted 10 times. We drain the water and again 1 litre of diluted suds remain in the clothes. We then add another 9 litres of water. Result: the diluted suds is again diluted 10 times. With two rinses using 18 litres of water we have thus the same dilution as with one deep rinse using 99 litres of water.

Conclusion: for efficient rinsing it is far better to look for machines that have many rinse cycles rather than machines that have few deep rinse cycles.

 

[MrX]

Well, my whirlpool in rented apartment does a very poor job of rinsing in shallow rinses - then again, it's so badly designed it hardly even gets the clothes wet at all hehe. I'm sure a Zanussi Jetsystem or something like that would do a far better job, even with shallow rinses.

I also find that deeper rinses do tend to be less harsh.

And finally, water here is not metered, nor is it scarce. So, water conservation is not that big a deal to me. It would be if there were a scarcity of water / it was metered.

 

[mielabor]

Yes, I agree with the finding that deep rinses are less harsh (reduced mechanical action). The idea of water conservation may be not very relevant in your situation, but the fact remains that a large number of shallow rinses are far more effective and there is never justification for mere wasting. I assume that the water has been processed in some way, thereby using energy and probably chemicals too. In my example I used 99 litres of water for one deep rinse resulting in a dilution of 100 times. With the same amount of water I can do 11 shallow rinses resulting in a dilution of no less than 10000000000 times!

 

[liberator1509]

Skip the bosch

Hi MRX

I'd advise skipping the Bosch - we have one that is now one year old and it is pretty rubbish in every sense (it was bought in my absence - can you imagine....).

The cycles are short by A-rated FL standard (40 and 60 are both about an hour), but the results are only average. With a bit of research one discovers that to achieve A-rated redults one has to use the 'wash-plus' function (called 'stains' on some models), increasing the cycle to way over the two-hour mark.

The rinsing is poor (suds in the last using any detergent - liquid or powder, concentrate or not - incidentally Persil Colour liquid seems to produce the most suds). The 'Aqua Plus' option adds more water, but not that you'd notice - it never reaches above the door on the cotton or synthetics cycles.

Finally the build quality is not that of old Bosch - already the machine spins average loads off balance at times (it can be quite alarming at times).

I'm in Ireland at the moment and using my parent's Hotpoint Aquarius Extra (about 4 years old). Although it takes forever (min. two plus hours) it does at least rinse well - the water levels on the extra rinse setting are quite a way up the door. I'm not sure if it is a Merloni or GDA era machine, but it has been pretty reliable for the so far. Not a patch on the Top Loader it replaced, but as you know I'm biased on that front.

Have you consider a Maytag front-loader - very expensive in Ireland, but available online in the UK for reasonable amounts - if you have a friend over there it might be worth bringing one in. Incidentally, I was astonished to see how expensive appliances are in Ireland - a Whirlpool Ultimate Care TL was 900 Euro - it sells for about £350 sterling...that is a bit of a steep mark-up!!!

david

 

[MrX]

Where are you looking ?

You really need to try the "big box" retailers like Harvey Norman.

The mark-up in some of the smaller stores can be ridiculous.

Also, we're generally better off sticking to non-UK sourced appliances. i.e. ones that are shipped directly to Ireland from within the Eurozone as it avoids a currency conversion. Depends very much on the store though, there's a very wide range of prices over here. If you go into some places you're definitely ripped off.

E.g. just looking at Flor Griffen (one of our local retailers in Cork) They've a relatively poor selection on their website, but the full range of Electrolux, Zanussi and AEG in store.

Price € 499.90 for a Zanussi ZWF1637
£375.27 was the cheapest I could find it online in the UK, which is €554.56

£350 should be about €517

Are you looking in smaller shops?
They can be TOTAL rip-offs and in many cases you can knock the price down if you're getting a group of appliances. Their margins can be ridiculous.

I think in the short term many of our smaller electrical retailers will vanish leaving only the largest indigenous ones + the Expert Group (they have central buying - but independent stores).

Harvey Norman and Currys seem to already dominate.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Aqualtis Rinse Level

Hi Folks,
Here is a quick picture of the Aqualtis on a 60ºC Cottons cycle, its on rinse 1. It sometimes takes in more water but it depends on the load; that load is fairly small.

David.

 

[newwave1]

Wow! Awesome pic david! I really do like that model! Looks stunnin'! Thats a real good waterlevel especially with the tilted drum!

Darren

 

[islingtonsteve]

Nice Aqualtis - is that a store model? Haven't seen that edition on the website. Here's a pic of the rinse level on a cottons cycle of my Hoover Vision before it got fried!

 

[2drumsallergy]

Hotpoint or Hoover

Hi Darren,
I have seen the water level higher than that with a full load.
I would say both the Aqualtis and Vision HD are excellent machines, another very good machine is the Electrolux Insight. The Vision HD does look very smart in black, but I was swayed to the Aqualtis from my own experience of these machines.

Hi islingtonsteve,
No its not an exclusive store model its the new 8Kg AQGD169S, they should be on the Hotpoint website soon.

David

 

[MrX]

Very nice!

Which machines are using JetSystem type cleaning (i.e. sprays/recirculation pumps) - at ones stage it was only Zanussi, now it seems to be increasingly common.

Also what's JetSystem+
Some of the Zanussi and Electrolux models seem to have it (the very newest ones)

 

[2drumsallergy]

Recirculation Pump

Hi mrx,
The Electrolux brands AEG, Zanussi and of course Electrolux models feature the JetSystem or Recirculation Pump if you like. Some LG models also feature a Recirculation Pump and some top end Gorenje models too. The original Zanussi JetSystem has evolved over the years; the first models returned the water to the top of the inner drum where it showered through the holes onto the laundry. The highly concentrated washing solution along with spin bursts throughout the wash cycle provided excellent wash performance. Later models return the water via a jet built into the top of the door seal; this seems more efficient to me as all the returned water has to pass through the wash load. The Recirculation Pump has a tendency to fail if a lot sand finds its way into the machine e.g. work clothes from a construction worker or children's clothes etc. but it's pretty reliable for the most part and 99% of the population will not have abnormal amounts of sand in their laundry.

David

 

[lavamat_jon]

Mrx - I presume Jetsystem + is what they call their new spray design... our ZWF1437 had a fan shaped spray rather than, well, a jet shaped spray. Didn't really make any difference over the jet shaped spray my AEG 86741 had, but did the same job.

Only tendency I found with the recirculation pumps is that they somewhat hindered rinsing at least in the first rinse cycles - when the jet starts up at the beginning of the rinse they dump suds from the sump right onto the load, and for obvious reasons they can contribute to excessive sudsing if you're not careful with detergent.

David,

The Aqualtis looks nice. Glad to hear that the Aqualtis machines are turning out to be good machines, I was very sceptical at first about them - it's about time the Indesit company made some better quality products. It's a shame to see Hotpoint products made in Italy, but if they're better quality for it then it's just what the brand needs. .

Jon

 

[MrX]

Jon,

It's not really a Hotpoint at all, given that it's branded as an Ariston Aqualtis everywhere outside the UK and Ireland.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Hotpiont or Ariston

Hi Jon,
The Aqualtis is 100% Ariston, all components are specific to the Aqualtis and totally different from the GDA designed machines however the Inverter motor is also used in some of the GDA designed models.
I have found that the drum bearings are a weak point on some of the GDA design machines; some machines run for years with no problems while others (Identical models) fail prematurely. Bearing replacement in the GDA designed Hotpoints is generally expensive as the rear tub has to be replaced along with the drum shaft and spider, if the drum shaft is not replaced the bearings usually fail again within weeks or months.

The Aqualtis is a more stable machine during spin as the tub unit is suspended from the top of the cabinet by 4 springs with 2 dampers below the tub.

Two weeks ago I gave my old Hotpoint WF860P (To make room for my Aqualtis) to my cousin; it's well into its 6th year now, never gave me any problems and still running perfectly. I have encountered younger versions of the same machine with bearing failure.

Interestingly Which? Magazine rated the Aqualtis as a "Don't buy!" and as such Which? have lost all credibility with me. In reality the Aqualtis is a good solid machine, very quiet, delivers excellent wash performance, excellent spin performance at 38% remaining moisture for 1600RPM models, well specified and reasonably priced.

David

 

[MrX]

Sometimes I think Which can rate a whole brand rather than individual machines. Often their top of the line machines can be pretty good, while their bottom of the line stuff can be disposable rubbish.

The higher end brands just start at the middle of the line level and work up. Miele just goes straight in at the top.

 

[jwilson00]

Is this still true of the aqualtis?

I read this on a repair site, is this true for all models?

the drum bearings cannot be individually replaced although this is true for the majority of the household name washing machines now. More seriously though, the drum cannot be stripped out to retrieve a bra-wire or other obstruction that could get trapped between the tub and drum. This is because the outer tub on the Hotpoint Aqualtis is sealed! - a new and very unwelcome development. Many items may well be retrieved by removing the drum paddle and fishing in the bottom of the tub but it’s always been possible for some obstruction to be only retrievable by stripping out the drum.

If the drum bearings fail you apparently need to fit an entire new tub and drum. This would almost certainly write the washing machine off.

 

[MrX]

I've seen a bra wire write off a washing machine on a few occasions. I think the simplest solution is to buy a laundry net for such items, or seal them into a pillow case.

It's a complete nightmare to get something like that removed from any machine, obviously far worse with a sealed one.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Drum Bearings

Hi jwilson00,
I'm not sure about the Aqualtis as I have not yet had a bearing problem among my customers. But yes the GDA designed Hotpoints such as the WF860 or WT960 require the drum spider and rear tub half to be replaced, if this is not done the bearing will rapidly fail again usually within a week or two. The problem is damage the the shaft primarily the sealing surface of the shaft which damages the new seal. As for the outer tub being sealed it would not be possible to install the inner drum if that were the case.

Under wire bras should not be washed in any automatic washing machine unless they are securely zipped inside a modified pillow case, a laundry net is not sufficient as the wire can escape through the holes of the net. I have lost count of the number of bra wires I have removed over they years. Most modern washers have drum holes so small that the wire cannot pass through but the wire just slips down between the door seal and the drum I have even removed one from a Honeycombe Care Miele. The best least invasive way to remove a bra wire is through the tub drain hole, I use a grabber tool that operates like a syringe but sometimes a machine has to be stripped down.

The attached pictre is my Dyson CR02 Allergy, it shows the lower high water level as there is only small load in the machine. The higher high water level goes one third up the door glass.

David

 

[seamusuk]

Hotpoint/Indesits

Hey Guys

Most of these now have welded Drums - this means the only option is to replace the complete inner/outer drum assembly!!!!.

A giveway is "Welded" after the model on the model label on the packing.

your only hope of getting anything out is through the sump or heater openings!

Seamus