Differences Between Speed Queen TL Series 9 and TC5000

[frigilux]

Another difference between the TC5000 and the Series 9 (or 9 Series if you prefer):

I am forever grateful to Malcolm (mrb627) for posting this hack. You can skip to the next part of any cycle simply by pressing the WHITES and PERM PRESS pads simultaneously. I use this wonderful little hack frequently. It provides the all the flexibility of a mechanical timer. You can jump around in any cycle simply by pressing a couple of pads.

Case in point: Most small loads deserve slow agitation and require only spray rinses. I also like to wash loads of colors (shirts, dress shorts, etc.) the same way. I choose the BULKY cycle, let it fill and agitate, then return to the machine, power it down, select NORMAL ECO and press start. Agitation begins immediately because the tub is already filled. I press WHITES and PERM PRESS together and the machine jumps to the spin-drain/spray rinse portion of the cycle.

Does anyone know if there’s a way to advance to the next operation in the cycle on the TC5000?

brisnat81: Thanks for video of the vintage Fisher & Paykel. Are today’s F&P washers made the same way? Agitation in the video has the same distinctive sound I hear in videos of the brand’s newer machines.

thomasward00: Since most of your laundry is lightly soiled, the TR fits your needs—especially if reliability is your primary concern—and it’s very quiet, as well.
[this post was last edited: 9/18/2019-07:22]

 

[ladd]

I too would love to know how to skip to the next phase of a cycle on a TC5000.

I CAN pass along the tip, if you don't already know it, on how at any point in a cycle you can cancel the cycle and go straight to final spin.

Press and hold the START pad for three seconds will PAUSE the cycle, along with an annoying beep every "X" number of seconds.

Continue to press and hold the START pad for (15 seconds?) and the cycle will skip to the final spin.

 

[eurekastar]

I think the older Speed Queens with electronic controls had a cycle advance button. 

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Eugene

By the early 90s they moved to the Smartdrive DD pancake motor that is still in use today.

I suggest the Gentle Annie option for SQ because that is what they’ve already built, the just neglected to add seperate agitate and spin shafts.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[DADoES]

 
An F&P history timeline I found says Gentle Annie intro'd 1985, SmartDrive 1991.  Were they produced concurrently for the transition?

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Glenn,

I'm pretty sure they transitioned from one to the other. The exception may've been the rebadged versions of the Gentle Annie that where available. IE Fridgidaire, Kelvinator etc.

They werent cheap machines to make, 12 pole GE motor, electronic controls that take up a shoe box sized box, a milk stool suspension system, steel baseplate. Once they had the cheaper design ready to go it would've made financial sense to jump across.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[pinkpower4]

Cost of boards for SQ | Advantages / Disadvantages

Cost

Does anyone have the parts lists for the TC5000wn? Just curious what it would cost to replace the board behind the knobs and the inverter drive later, if needed. I know from looking up parts on other appliances, this can vary widely.

Advantages / Disadvantage

I am trying to find information on the inverter drive and what is purpose is. I came across this explanation.

"Inverter means that there is an electronic drive control system between the incoming power supply and the outgoing power to the induction motor.

The advantage of Inverter drive is that the speed and torque of the motor can be precisely controlled so the result is a very quiet and smooth motor action. It also doesn’t have traditional brushes so doesn’t suffer from sparking or brush wear. The downsides are costs if they go wrong as the circuit board and induction motor are expensive.

With some products like an AC unit inverter motor control represents a big efficiency gain and running cost saving but there is little to be gained efficiency wise from using it in a washing machine. It is nice to not have the high rpm motor scream though."

Because the motor is precisely controlled, I have seen where this can decrease the stress on the bearings thus improving their life? I can replace the inverter drive, but not the bearings. Interesting.

Can anyone add some information to this? Thank you.

 

[henene4]

Inverters do improve efficency quite a lot over both asynchronus motors driven via line frequency (those SQ used in their washers before or as you would find in dryers) and brushed motors (more found in EU FLs until recently).

The Inverter units (which basicly just act as voltage and frequency modifiers) got really cheap to make recently.
Even the cheapest of the cheap machines over here now widely use inverter motors.

For a lot of dryers over here it is an essential part to use inverter motors to reach A+++ efficency ratings (highest official class).

While the efficency gains are usually only in the low double digit wattage range, that still is 5-10% more efficent.

They are far more flexible, far more reliable then brushed systems over all.

And yes you now have 2 control boards in your machine; thing is that if you had a machine with variable speed motor, that control was either integrated on the main PCB (like on many ELux machines over here) or was a seperate board already (see the Neptunes).

Torque is much higher and verry consistent compared to brushed motors, they are much quieter too.

Keep in mind that noise is just another form of inefficency, though it usually results from other inefficency, mostly friction.

I wouldn't really agree on that bearing thing per se.

What wears down bearings more is load perpendicular to the axis of rotation or along the axis of rotation, but not rotational force.

The way machines can be more bearing careing is that for example on a frontloader, the high torque and verry precise rpm control allow for verry elaborate yet quick rebalancing strategies.

Best example from over here:

Before spinning, Electrolux machines with brushed motors turn once clockwise, then speed up to distribution speeds counter clockwise, take about 10sec to sense the balance of the load, then drop rpm to tumbling agin for 5 sec if needed, and repeat a max of 3 times before starting over again.
With pauses that gives you 5 tries in 5 min.

If they have an inverter, they do 5 tumlbles in reversing directions, starting out at a higher wash speed clockwise, increasing speed by 5 rpm every time.
On the 6th speed (after a minute or so) we are at distributing.
This pulled apart tangeled laundry somewhat allowing it to distribute better.
On that first distribute it dosent need more than 5sec to sense, then drops and restarts.
This allows it 5 or 6 tries in 30sec or so.
This means we still get 5 or 6 tries in 5 min, but have more distributions and a better distribution preperation.

Thus, out of balance boundaries for aborts can be set narrower, theoreticly improofing bearing life.
Or, on quick cycles, or on lower rpms, these cut offs can be set more precisley and more versatile.

 

[eronie]

Most bearing troubles are not caused by speed, out of balance, reversing etc. Bad seals let water into bearings that's where the trouble starts.

 

[blackstone]

Just bought a TC5000WN

I have read and reread the SQ discussion here, and I'm glad that I did. I agree that the mechanical design of the TC is better than the TR redesign. I went into the dealer today, intending to buy the TC5000. The SQ models on the floor were TRs. I had the ask the salesman for the TC. Is it safe to assume that dealers are trying to unload the TR models that they have in inventory?

If the same situation had been around when I was a dealer, I can imagine that it would be difficult to explain the difference in mechanics to the average customer. Tough call.

Delivery on Friday. Still keeping my 28-year-old Amana, in case I run across a good motor for it.

 

[frigilux]

Congratulations on your new purchase!

Interesting that you found only TR models on the showroom floor; same thing at my local dealer. He had four TR pairs on the floor. When I asked about ordering the TC, he immediately tried to talk me into the TR—“It’s a better machine! Cleans better (yeah, right) and is super quiet!”

Wonder if SQ/Alliance is giving dealers an incentive of some sort to push the TRs.

By the way, I was washer shopping for a friend, not for myself. In the end, I suggested she get an LG3500 front-loader. She loves it! Personally, I’d want the LG3900 with the new Turbo Wash 360 system and an internal water heater, but neither of those things were important to her. And she saved about $250.

 

[iiijohnnymaciii]

"The Series 9 fills to the selected water level; score 1 for it. The TC5000, however, fills with the actual water temp selected. The Series 9: If warm or hot water is selected, it fills with a few inches of warm water, then switches to cold for the remainder of the fill. Score 1 for the TC."

My 2017 9 series fills with whatever temperature is selected for the entirety of the fill.

 

[frigilux]

Hi John-- Are you sure your Series 9 SQ fills with the selected temp on the Normal/Eco cycle? That's the only cycle that fills with a few inches of warm water, then switches to cold for the remainder of the fill. All other cycles fill completely with the selected temp.

 

[iiijohnnymaciii]

“Hi John-- Are you sure your Series 9 SQ fills with the selected temp on the Normal/Eco cycle? That's the only cycle that fills with a few inches of warm water, then switches to cold for the remainder of the fill. All other cycles fill completely with the selected temp. “

I stand corrected! Wow! On Eco it did change to cold after 3 inches of water. And hot was only warm.

 

[ladd]

On the TC5000, while using the ECO cycle and selecting HOT as the water fill temp, it does, in fact, fill with hot water for only about 30 seconds then switches over to cold.

HOWEVER!

If, while using the ECO cycle, you additionally select "Extra Rinse", the water temperature will remain hot for the full fill cycle.

No change to the rinse temps, which remain cold.

 

[frigilux]

Thanks for that clarification! I have never selected an extra rinse when using the Normal Eco cycle. I use that cycle specifically for the water-saving spray rinses.

I’m going to choose an extra rinse to see if that makes the Series 9 fill with the selected wash temp. It seems that choosing an extra rinse basically replicates the Heavy Duty cycle with an extra rinse.

 

[frigilux]

Normal Eco Cycle Series 9: Unlike the TC5000, which Ladd reports fills with the selected wash temp if you choose the extra rinse option, my 2017 Series 9 fills with a few inches of warm water and then shifts to cold for the remainder of the fill, even if you choose 1, 2, or 3 extra rinses.

And now we know!

 

[mp]

TC5000 skipping to final spin

When I had asked the following question of SpeedQueen about their TC5: “Can I cancel the cycle as soon as the initial spin (the one after the wash cycle) is over and then start a new wash cycle to act in place of the rinse cycle?” I was told “No. There is a chance of hindering the computer and where it is at.”) I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Anyone have an idea?

I was glad to read the following below: "I CAN pass along the tip, if you don't already know it, on how at any point in a cycle you can cancel the cycle and go straight to final spin." Thank you for this information. I suppose that it is the only thing I can do if I want to skip the Rinse portion of a cycle (and not waste all that water) in order to use a Wash cycle in place of the Rinse. In this way I can get a warmer rinse in the wintertime when my tap water is 40 degrees.
Unless someone has another idea?
I see from videos that the fill up for the Rinse starts when the Spin hasn't even completed. In general if there is some water in the drum when one skips to the Final Spin, will the machine drain it first or just drain it as part of the Spin?

Does anyone know if "playing around" with the controls, in other words- pausing and cancelling etc. on every cycle, so that I can get the temperatures that I like for the Wash (usually somewhere between Hot and Warm) and the Rinse (something warmer than tap cold) will make the control board wear out prematurely? -Thanks!

 

[combo52]

TC5000 Skipping To Finel Spin ?

I am not sure entirely what your question is, but you cannot hurt the controls by switching cycles around, you may also just add some hot water to the deep rinse with a hose if you want to but it will not rinse any better.

 

John

 

[mp]

TC5000 skipping to final spin

John: Thanks so much for responding. Of course he may be wrong, but after reading online that warm water rinses out detergent better than cold, I checked with a friend who is a chemist and he agrees that this is basically true. I need to replace a 20 year old Whirlpool that I would turn back to the wash cycle to fill with cool water (as opposed to the frigid water that comes from cold tap in the winter) for the rinse cycle. I don't have a laundry sink to get hot water.

May I ask why you feel adding hot water won't help it rinse better? Do you think 40 degree water can effectively rinse detergent out of clothes?

If I do wish to use a wash cycle in place of the rinse cycle, do you have a better recommendation than cancelling the cycle as the rinse water starts to fill and skip to the final spin, start a new wash cycle and after that is over, skip to the final spin again? (technically I'd be doing an extra spin after the wash cycle and an extra final spin.)
BTW, as the washer is filling with water, does one have to press the start/pause button to pause the cycle in order to change the water temperature (for example, to get a temperature somewhere between hot and warm) or does moving the dial accomplish this w/o pressing the start/pause button?
Thanks so much.