Dishwasher Advice

[danelto]

Board Members:

My wife and I purchased an appliance protection package from SEARS.

For $500, SEARS promised--free service calls, parts, and labor for five appliances in our house (fridge, microwave, dishwasher, washer, and dryer) if one should ever break within the next year.

I thought it was pretty salty, but knowing that our Amana refrigerator ran us upwards of $300 for a new icemaker last summer, I thought I'd better give this deal a try.

Well, wouldn't you know--our KitchenAid dishwasher--TOL Superba 1999 started going haywire.

One day, my wife pushed one of the buttons and nothing happened. The next day, it worked fine.

Then we started noticing that when the dishwasher finished a cycle, there was clean water left sitting in the pan.

Called SEARS again. After four free service calls, the people at SEARS determined that they couldn't order the right part--the computer panel.

The reason? The serial number had worn off the inside of the machine due to detergent and hard water. SEARS had no record of our purchase because when they transferred computer records with this "merger" with K-mart, they had a glitch and lost customer data.

Long story longer. . .SEARS offered to replace our dishwasher.

They gave us a $950 in store credit.

I picked a Kenmore Elite High Efficiency Dishwasher with a manual debris filter as opposed to the TOL Kitchen Aid with the third utility shelf added.

Looking on the web Kitchen Aid was really getting hammered.

Has Kitchen Aid reliability and name recognition been tarnished? Why?

I was surprised that more people didn't have good things to say.

Conversely, the Kenmore blogs pretty much listed the dishwasher I picked as being a genie in the bottle.

Any thoughts or knowledge about the Kenmore Elite?

Thanks.

Dan

 

[toggleswitch]

~Has Kitchen Aid reliability and name recognition been tarnished? Why?

Because they are now just ordinary Whirlpools. [And don't get me wrong; the Whirlpool dishwashers with a power-clean module were fantastic IMHO].

I had one of the first KitchenAid tall-tubs (also by Whirlpool) and it was just awful. Kicked it to the curb.

Today I'm happy with my MOL cheap-ass GE that actually washes well. I deal with the plastique tub and less than fabulous racking/loading. But HELL it actually WASHES!

 

[stevet]

they all can't be wrong!

There are so many differing opinions not just on this forum but just about all the others where people either love or hate their Kitchenaid appliances,but let's speak of the dishmachines alone!

If you read the many comments people make, they all seem to love any KA dishwasher up to and including the 18 series units.

They were the first Kitchenaids to have the upper and lower washarms and this model also had the small constant rinse arm on the top of the tank to spray water over the tops of the cups and glasses which did seem to make a difference in cleaning results of the items in the top rack.

In my personal opinion, the 19 and 20 series were just as good as the 18's save for the non heated dry on the 19, but I had a 19 that we used for our pots and pans and it DID clean everything very well, actually even better than my 18 did on the same types of soils. I have to attribute it to the fact that it stopped and heated the water prior to and during the washing which the 18 doesn't do. The 18 heats during, but not prior.And it doesnt always heat during if you have installed the newest style timer Whirlpool has come out with.
The 20 is intrinsically the same as the 18/19 with the 20's cycles pretty similar to the 19 but with the return of the heated air dryer.
Those machines were the last of them to be built like tanks with the full frames and really thick tanks and heavier porcelain(or so it seems that the porcelain was better).

I still tell guys that the 21-22 washing system was the best they ever had designed but they went to a reduced frame and the tanks always seemed to be weak and wobbly. The 23's had the Whirlpool power module which was still a good washing system but by then the tanks were crap and the racks were really chintzy(for lack of a better word).
If you ever see one on the curb, the racks will usually be all rusted and have loads of broken tines on them and the doors and tanks chipped like crazy. So why does my 1982 machine have a tank that still looks new and those newer ones look so beaten up after so few years?
Simple, Whirlpool took out the true HOBART quality from the machines after they purchased KA and never in their best days made any machine that could come close to it.

But the reason why everyonbe still goes hog wild for a Kitchenaid is because they base their expectations on the glory of the past machines. It is human nature, therefore to be disappointed when something doesn't meet your expectations.
If you gave up your old KA for new one, you will be very disappointed if it doesnt clean as well as your old one. If you gave up some BOL unit that was mediocre at best then you will be pleasantly surprised by the new machine's ability to clean your dishware.
I hate to use the old car analogy but I think it applies here..
if you buy a Lincoln, don't you expect it to be a better car than your Crown Victoria? Won't you complain more when it breaks and you need service because it is a Lincoln? Works the same with Cadillac and Chevrolet... you paid more and expect more. But honestly, except for the fit and finish of the vehicle, what really separates them mechanically from each other? Not too much when you think about it. Many vehicles share common powertrains and accessories so the failures will be the same across the corporations.
Same here with the Whirlpools and K/A's not to mention the Kenmores!

If you read any of the Consumer reports on customer satisfation, you will see a larger percentage of complaints on K/A than on Whirlpool and if they are really the same units underneath, what other explanation can there be than people who bout the higher end product expected better of it so they will complain more about it when it break.

I can personally attest to the fact that when someone with a commercial machine made by Hobart and calls Hobart for Service, they have a much higher expectation of the service they will get as well as a higher expectation of reliability from that product. They are willing to accept much less in the way of quality and service if they buy a lesser brand product.But not on the Hobart. They expect us there that day or sooner and to have the part and get them up and running.

There is that new saying "it is what it is" and that is sadly, how we have to look at some products now. It is made as inexpensively as it can be made to stay competitive and we all have to make a leap of faith that it will do what it is promised to do and then we have to decide if we can live with the results. Little by little we are dumbing down out expectations and are accepting the throw away mentality we are being force fed.
Sorry for the editorializing,but I am glad I have my KDS18 in my kitchen with another one in the wings and 2 21's and a 20 waiting to take its place. I should be set for a couple of lifetimes!

 

[peteski50]

KitchenAid!

Steve,
That was well put, it is ashame what happened to KitchenAid. It's almost as bad as what WCI did to Frigidaire. It seems like their is nothing worth buying that is new.
Peter

 

[spankomatic]

Kenmore Elite

I had this portable Kenmore Elite dishwasher that I bought in 2003 from Sears. It was the closest thing I could find in a portable dishwasher that was like a Kitchenaid KDS-18. I liked the loading,siverware wrack,cleaned very well. It had lower and upper wash arm with spray head on the top. It was very reliable,no breakdowns. I ended up selling it when I moved. It was way better than the Bosch dishwasher I have now.

My all time favorite is still the old Kitchenaid KDS-18. Nothing like 'em!

Jim

 

[spankomatic]

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[spankomatic]

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