dishwasher residue/film/dust

[trae]

wdt780saem1. problem started a few months ago. there is a very fine brown/black dust evenly coating the inside of the washer and on dishes.

upstream - i have checked the water coming into the washer. all wipes come back clean. i feel relatively confident it is not an iron problem. we are on city water and see no evidence of iron problems in any other areas/appliances. if it were iron, all residents would be having this problem.

downstream - i have checked drainage. there does not appear to be anything regurgitating back into the washer. the drain line is opaque and i don't see any obstructions. the valve appears to be working correctly. i have removed and inspected drain pump. all clean

that leaves something in the washer itself. i see no evidence of worn/compromised parts. i removed main pump. all wipes come back clean. heating element is clean. i have cleaned all parts inside several times. all wipes inside tubing/wash arms come back clean. it is something happening after the water is sprayed and before it drains. we have run numerous cycles with dishwasher cleaners and no dishes. there has been no metal such as cookie sheets.

i am absolutely baffled. this dust/residue/film appears to be coming from nowhere. it costs $100 just for someone to step into our kitchen. then labor and parts. we can almost buy a new one for that much. i am troubleshooting the problem because i feel like it can be solved relatively easily if the root cause can be found.

 

[DADoES]

 
Detergent brand/type changed at the time the problem began?  If so, the new choice may be incompatible with your water chemistry.  If the same detergent, then perhaps the manufacturer changed something about the formula.

Do you use rinse aid?  Has the dispenser run dry?

 

[trae]

thanks for the response.

we've tried multiple brands of pods. we've also run multiple cycles with dishwasher cleaner (citric product). we have used jetdry as well. i filled it up yesterday before i ran the latest cycle of dishwasher cleaner. still seeing the dust return even though i cleaned the tub thoroughly before running the cycle

 

[DADoES]

 
Try a powder.  Pods could be related to the problem.  They often can be an overdose, particularly if the dishware is rinsed before loading or if a household water softener is involved.

 

[trae]

we're trying powder now. no dishes. just racks and jetdry

 

[trae]

i appear to have either 2 different problems or 1 problem with 2 symptoms. i started a load on heavy setting with a different detergent. when it completed, the soap was not completely dissolved from the dispenser, the dust was present and there was a bit of soap residue scattered on the bottom of the tub. i ran another cycle and the soap was still not completely dissolved from the dispenser nor the bottom of the tub.

the wash arms do not appear to be clogged so the only thing i can figure is that the main pump is not effective. it's just not pumping water strongly enough to clean the inside of the tub. i can't think of another reason for 2 cycles to not dissolve the detergent.

 

[DADoES]

 
Or, low fill level, which also causes insufficient circulation and spray pressure.  Have you observed what's the water level after a fill period is complete?  Post a pic of it.

 

[combo52]

Low Water Fill May Be The Problem

Run these two tests to see if DW is working properly.

 

Take a tall glass and smear peanut butter inside it and place in upper rack, all PNB should be washed away after a complete cycle.

 

2nd test, put a 4 cup measuring cup in the lower rack sitting up-right and start DW, when you open the door after about 5 minutes after starting the cycle the measuring cup should be full of water.

 

If DW failed either test you either have a fill problem [ usually a bad inlet valve  ] or a circulating pump  problem.

 

This is why it is always best to put dishes in a DW covered with food, this way you will know immediately if the dishes you are removing from your DW have been washed and rinsed correctly, other wise you may be eating off dishes that are not washed and  rinsed and may be covered with detergent and wetting agent.

 

John L.

 

[littlegreeny]

Heating Element Working?

Did you verify the heater actually works?

 

[trae]

there definitely is heat, splashing and rotation of wash arms. i can hear it and feel it against the top of the tub. however, i don't know if there is enough force or if there is any arm rotation. i disconnected the wash arms and sprayed each nozzle with the jet setting on my outdoor hose sprayer. then i removed the sprayer and held the hose up to the inlet on the wash arm. the nozzles appear to be open and the arm did rotate. i'm starting to wonder if the wash arms are just poorly designed because this dishwasher has not cleaned well from the time we bought it.

after restoring the wash arms, i cleaned thoroughly again and ran another cycle. the black dust is starting to show up again and very lightly soiled dishes were not clean. absolutely baffling. the wash arms and the pump are used in multiple dishwasher models. we've tried numerous cycle settings. perhaps the pump isn't getting the correct voltage? totally grasping at straws. i see that other customers are describing the same symptoms in other appliance forums

 

[labboy]

Check the fill as described...

You can have under-filling which can affect performance yet still have splashing and water movement. I would check the fill level as John previously suggested. Correcting underfilling could fix your problem.

Bob

 

[trae]

it's definitely filling properly - right up to the bottom of the float. not quite an inch at the deepest point. i checked that multiple times.

 

[DADoES]

 
Add a quart of hot water after each fill through a cycle the next time you run a load of dishware or repeat the powder detergent test, see if it helps.

Also just to say, the float does not control the fill level.  Fills are timed.  The float only comes into play to shut off the inlet valve in an overfill situation such as after an imcomplete drain due to a pump obstruction.  It doesn't stop an overflow if the inlet valve hangs open.

 

[pierreandreply4]

did you check if the water going in the dishwasher is hot enough?

 

[trae]

the latest in the saga:

the circulation pump has basically stopped working. i don't know if it has been failing for some time or just quit suddenly. it seems to have proper resistance and is getting 120v during cycle so i think the problem is mechanical.

oddly enough, diagnostic mode returns service error codes f5e1 (door) and f7e1 (heating element). what i don't know is if those are codes from a prior error state or if the washer thinks those are current error conditions. the door is definitely working correctly and the heating element seems to be fine. the customer error codes are f-e- which i think means no error.

i don't know if replacing the circulation pump will solve both symptoms.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

circulation pumps

What's new about the circulation pumps from the older point voyager platforms?

 

[combo52]

Circulation Pump Failing

Now we are getting somewhere, How did the DW do with the peanut butter test and filling a measuring cup test.

 

Take the pump out and see if anything is blocking it, if not replace the pump and the DW will probably work.

 

John L.

 

[sudsmaster]

If it were me, I'd put a tablespoon or so of STPP in the detergent receptacle and run a cycle with no load.

 

I'd also check that the sump is draining properly at the end of each cycle and there are no clogs anywhere.