As some of you know, I have a Whirlpool Duet WFW9750 that is nearing 11 years old in the next few days. Within the past 4 or 5 washes, I have noticed that the machine makes a 'rattle' when spinning at moderate RPM, however does not occur continually. So, it does not appear to be the bearings since it does not occur with speed, but more the spider rubbing and being close to failure. Not sure what to expect at this point, but will keep you all updated.
Duet spider failure?
- Thread starter lakewebsterkid
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cfz2882
Well-known member
look for "runout"(wobble)of the basket while turning manually-if more than ~1/16,forcefully try to wobble the basket to check for broken or "soft"spider there will be a little normal bearing play.My Duet will be turning 10 shortly...
the rattle is probably something in the suspension.
the rattle is probably something in the suspension.
A broken spider is usually very distinctive.
As stated above, take a look at your drum.
The spider has 4 or 3 arms, spaced either 120° evenly apart or 2 on either side about 60° apart to each other 120° between the pairs.
If you grip the basket at the front rim, pull towards you.
Try at 2 different positions at least.
If the drum moves towards you as a whole it should be fine.
If you can basically tilt the drum within the tub, "bending" it, the spider is broken.
If it is only at a medium speed it is less likely it is the spider.
That would get louder as it gets faster, usually.
I more so think either a damper is going or something got loose, like a wire or a hose.
Broken dampers make less of a problem at high speeds.
At very high speeds the vibrations created become very high force but really short travel.
Those high forces are far beyond the dampers capabilities and the drum becomes basically free floating.
If a damper goes the damping characteristics change.
At very high speeds the machine might sound different but not vibrate more.
At lower speeds however the drum can travel more freely and more so unevenly.
Thus vibrations get more excessive.
Especially in medium speeds that becomes apparent.
At lower speeds the out of balance detection still runs and would cancel spins with to large drum travel.
At medium speed however spins cleared by OOB detection can now still create higher vibrations.
At worst just wait it out.
If it is a damper next thing you'll recognise is longer cycle times due to longer balanceing routines.
Then some harder to balance loads will get spun at lower speeds more often.
Those will get more and more of a Problem.
Next even easy to balance loads will get spun less and less reliably.
Until the point the drum starts to sag and you see marks appearing on the door glass.
Replacing the dampers isn't terribly complicated nor expensive.
Best is to replace all dampers (should be 3) at once.
When one gets weak, the others Cary the load and wear out rather quickly.
If you replace one the other will go out soon after, taking the other with it again.
So you end up in a continuous cycle of replacing dampers.
Lay machine on its side.
Bottom should be accessible.
Dampers should just be held in with plastic pegs.
These have wings on one side that you have to compress with a pair of pliers and then slide out.
Can be a bit tricky.
A tip:
If you can get these plastic pins cheap as well just change them over as well with new ones.
Every now and then these get deformed over time.
They don't fit snugly anymore and can cause perfectly good dampers to rattle and fail prematurely (hammer on nail effect).
Should be a cheap part.
Mount new dampers, make sure the pins are all the way in.
Upright machine again.
Check drum that it looks in its correct place.
It can happen that a spring at the top of the machine gets unhooked.
Then you'd just unscrew the lid and hook it back in.
Doesn't happen all that often though.
As stated above, take a look at your drum.
The spider has 4 or 3 arms, spaced either 120° evenly apart or 2 on either side about 60° apart to each other 120° between the pairs.
If you grip the basket at the front rim, pull towards you.
Try at 2 different positions at least.
If the drum moves towards you as a whole it should be fine.
If you can basically tilt the drum within the tub, "bending" it, the spider is broken.
If it is only at a medium speed it is less likely it is the spider.
That would get louder as it gets faster, usually.
I more so think either a damper is going or something got loose, like a wire or a hose.
Broken dampers make less of a problem at high speeds.
At very high speeds the vibrations created become very high force but really short travel.
Those high forces are far beyond the dampers capabilities and the drum becomes basically free floating.
If a damper goes the damping characteristics change.
At very high speeds the machine might sound different but not vibrate more.
At lower speeds however the drum can travel more freely and more so unevenly.
Thus vibrations get more excessive.
Especially in medium speeds that becomes apparent.
At lower speeds the out of balance detection still runs and would cancel spins with to large drum travel.
At medium speed however spins cleared by OOB detection can now still create higher vibrations.
At worst just wait it out.
If it is a damper next thing you'll recognise is longer cycle times due to longer balanceing routines.
Then some harder to balance loads will get spun at lower speeds more often.
Those will get more and more of a Problem.
Next even easy to balance loads will get spun less and less reliably.
Until the point the drum starts to sag and you see marks appearing on the door glass.
Replacing the dampers isn't terribly complicated nor expensive.
Best is to replace all dampers (should be 3) at once.
When one gets weak, the others Cary the load and wear out rather quickly.
If you replace one the other will go out soon after, taking the other with it again.
So you end up in a continuous cycle of replacing dampers.
Lay machine on its side.
Bottom should be accessible.
Dampers should just be held in with plastic pegs.
These have wings on one side that you have to compress with a pair of pliers and then slide out.
Can be a bit tricky.
A tip:
If you can get these plastic pins cheap as well just change them over as well with new ones.
Every now and then these get deformed over time.
They don't fit snugly anymore and can cause perfectly good dampers to rattle and fail prematurely (hammer on nail effect).
Should be a cheap part.
Mount new dampers, make sure the pins are all the way in.
Upright machine again.
Check drum that it looks in its correct place.
It can happen that a spring at the top of the machine gets unhooked.
Then you'd just unscrew the lid and hook it back in.
Doesn't happen all that often though.
I agree
It is odd.
I have checked for vibrating parts internally and externally. Nothing.
I ran the diagnostic cycle, and the noise occurred during the spin test with nothing in the machine, and not a bit of vibration. The tub has VERY mild play, and basket and suspension play is like it was when new. This certainly isn't a suspension noise.
I did clean out the pump to see if there was any noticeable debris. After about 2 years, only a bit of buildup was present likely due to FS and some liquids. No odor at all. One paperclip, a woodchip, and a fragment of a dog toy. Otherwise, just normal sediment.
It is odd.
I have checked for vibrating parts internally and externally. Nothing.
I ran the diagnostic cycle, and the noise occurred during the spin test with nothing in the machine, and not a bit of vibration. The tub has VERY mild play, and basket and suspension play is like it was when new. This certainly isn't a suspension noise.
I did clean out the pump to see if there was any noticeable debris. After about 2 years, only a bit of buildup was present likely due to FS and some liquids. No odor at all. One paperclip, a woodchip, and a fragment of a dog toy. Otherwise, just normal sediment.
cfz2882
Well-known member
bad math...
should have stated my "Duet"is about to turn 20yrs not 10
It's a KM HE3t,110 42922 200.
should have stated my "Duet"is about to turn 20yrs not 10
It's a KM HE3t,110 42922 200.Sorry
I thought I posted this earlier. 20 years for that platform is GREAT! However, we probably do 8 loads per week minimum.
I also checked all the dampers, and they are fine. When I move the tub around, there is no noise, however if I spin the tub, it will make the noise very faintly and quickly stop. I also illuminated the bottom of the tub in the back to look for scratches or large debris. Nothing.
I thought I posted this earlier. 20 years for that platform is GREAT! However, we probably do 8 loads per week minimum.
I also checked all the dampers, and they are fine. When I move the tub around, there is no noise, however if I spin the tub, it will make the noise very faintly and quickly stop. I also illuminated the bottom of the tub in the back to look for scratches or large debris. Nothing.
cfz2882
Well-known member
take off the belt
see what happens when the belt is taken off-sometimes the belts will make some odd noises.
see what happens when the belt is taken off-sometimes the belts will make some odd noises.
My Maytag Neptune MAH 7500 washer broke its spider after just two years. I suspect it was defective from the get-go. Luckily I had the extended (seven year, I think) warranty and it got replaced free of charge. No problems since then, it was over 15 years ago.
seeitrun2006
Well-known member
Rattle
I had the same problem with our duet. The rattle I had came from a quarter in the bottom of the door seal. Pulled the seal lip back, removed the money and It quit rattling. It always started when the machine was ramping up to spin. It was 11 years old but started to have control board issues got rid of it in 2018. Too expensive to fix. Hope this helps!!!
I had the same problem with our duet. The rattle I had came from a quarter in the bottom of the door seal. Pulled the seal lip back, removed the money and It quit rattling. It always started when the machine was ramping up to spin. It was 11 years old but started to have control board issues got rid of it in 2018. Too expensive to fix. Hope this helps!!!
Money or coins
I thought it sounded something like that as well. But the boot is completely free of anything. I wondered if something small was either below the drum in the rear end of the sump, or stuck at the rear of the drum itself and making noise as it sped up. However, any debris would have sheared down to nothing by now with the number of drum rotations except for maybe a tiny bit of metal, and it would have been washed loose with all the fills and drains it has done since it started.
It sucks since we are trying to move soon, and I can't locate a new LG built Kenmore FL washer with heater to save my life.
I thought it sounded something like that as well. But the boot is completely free of anything. I wondered if something small was either below the drum in the rear end of the sump, or stuck at the rear of the drum itself and making noise as it sped up. However, any debris would have sheared down to nothing by now with the number of drum rotations except for maybe a tiny bit of metal, and it would have been washed loose with all the fills and drains it has done since it started.
It sucks since we are trying to move soon, and I can't locate a new LG built Kenmore FL washer with heater to save my life.
Sound
To better describe the noise, it is a bit of a 'knock'.
To better describe the noise, it is a bit of a 'knock'.
Video example
So I will post a link to a video, and give time frames where the noise is identical but slightly quieter.
0:30 - 0:55
1:17 - 1:32
So I will post a link to a video, and give time frames where the noise is identical but slightly quieter.
0:30 - 0:55
1:17 - 1:32
w6984
New member
Bearings
Our ASKO is making the same noise. Was advised to run it into the ground?
Our ASKO is making the same noise. Was advised to run it into the ground?
Verdict is.....
Bearings.
I hate to see it leave the laundry room, but 11 years of hard use is fair. I plan on keeping it and potentially tearing it down.
I did, however, manage to get one of the last remaining Kenmore Elite 41982 5.2 cu. ft. machines made. More to come with that being said!
Bearings.
I hate to see it leave the laundry room, but 11 years of hard use is fair. I plan on keeping it and potentially tearing it down.
I did, however, manage to get one of the last remaining Kenmore Elite 41982 5.2 cu. ft. machines made. More to come with that being said!
Looking forward to the update with this information!!!
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
I wouldn't keep using it until it explodes. It could do that when it's high speed spinning and you will literally have a mess.
There are videos and lawsuits showing washers that came apart with parts flying all over.
Someone can get injured or killed. Plus, you're likely to have pieces of metal shavings falling into your wash water and entering your clothing with each load going forward. And they could rust and leave stains.
There are videos and lawsuits showing washers that came apart with parts flying all over.
Someone can get injured or killed. Plus, you're likely to have pieces of metal shavings falling into your wash water and entering your clothing with each load going forward. And they could rust and leave stains.
Washers That Fly Apart
Bad bearings are not what leads to self-destruction, It is usually spider or drum failures and an Asko or Miele, or Speed Queen will never fly apart, It is most likely new oversized TL and FL washers that are doing this.
The biggest problem with continuing to run a FL washer with bad bearings is when they get pretty loose you may get rust stains on some clothing and the basket will destroy itself and the outer tub etc making any possibility of repairing it too costly.
John L.
Bad bearings are not what leads to self-destruction, It is usually spider or drum failures and an Asko or Miele, or Speed Queen will never fly apart, It is most likely new oversized TL and FL washers that are doing this.
The biggest problem with continuing to run a FL washer with bad bearings is when they get pretty loose you may get rust stains on some clothing and the basket will destroy itself and the outer tub etc making any possibility of repairing it too costly.
John L.
searsbest
Well-known member
Duet spider failure..
In my decades experience of appliance repair, I have never seen an "Exploding" machine due to spider failure. It will most likely throw an error code for motor/speed issues before it completely fails, and even if it were to completely fail, it would most likely happen in motor ramp up/down when it would never be at a high enough speed to be of any danger..
In my decades experience of appliance repair, I have never seen an "Exploding" machine due to spider failure. It will most likely throw an error code for motor/speed issues before it completely fails, and even if it were to completely fail, it would most likely happen in motor ramp up/down when it would never be at a high enough speed to be of any danger..
I refurbed a 2011 Samsung frontloader in 2016 that friends of my sister gave to her for the repair quote being too costly. Sister figured I could do it for less cost. The spider had broken presumably during spin. The machine didn't "explode" to complete destruction but the drum put a gash in the front half of the outer tub.
