DW Auto programmes : do they always work ?

[favorit]

What do you think about "automatic" programs on dishwashers ? Here are my doubts

A) Some machines let you decide the temp (as 10y.o. AEG F 8081 With auto 50°C and auto 65°C) and add/cut down prewashes and/or rinses only

B) Machines -such as TOL BSH- have more autos that work within a narrow temp range (i.e Auto pots'n'pans 65°C/75°C - auto gentle 35°C/45°C - regular 45/65 and so on)

C) Some have just one auto that works with a wider range of temps (i.e. euro whirlpools 40/70°C ,latest aegs 45/70°C)

Let's go into real life :

1) Summertime - cold meal with salad and ice cream - very soiled load (dressings, ice cream) but easy to remove with cold prewash + low temp Wash
With machines "A" (and mostly on "B") it's YOU to decide the right temp. What happens with machines "C" ? How can they manage that low temps are enought ?

2) Boiled sausages (i.e. italian cotechino) are extremly greasy but don't cause water turbidity. Pots and dishes need at least 60°C/140F°F water
Do machines "C" sense this ?

3) Pots and pans with dried soil (that you'd scrub if you'd handwash it). Not a full load, so prerinse cycle only, then you' ll run full load next morning after breakfast.
When you'll run the load, will be the machine "C" able to understand to scrub pots @ high temp ?

Ok,I'm rather skeptic [oops ... sceptic ;-) ] ..let me know your experiences

Carlo

 

[lavamat_jon]

Have to say that we almost exclusively use Sensor Wash on our Miele dishwasher, which has a temp range of 45-65*C, and adds prewashes and rinses accordingly, and it washes 90% of loads perfectly. Only time we use the 75*C pots and pans wash is when we're using an inferior detergent.

(Ironically, we've found that cheap supermarket dishwasher tablets work better than Finish which is three times the price!)

Jon

 

[favorit]

thanks Jon

G1270 - do you have sensor wash adjustment switched on or off ?

Finish - here the ads claim "With F. you'll have diamond perfection". Any mention about diamondish price, expecially for gel+ball+powder tablets.
I found the same of you about supermarket powder

Carlo

 

[lavamat_jon]

Carlo - I don't remember programming the dishwasher for adjust sensor wash, and my parents aren't the type of people to mess around with programmable functions, so I doubt it's selected

Have to say that, although the Favorit 40850 we had for a few months was a good dishwasher, and miles better than the previous Zanussi, that the Automatic programme didn't work as well on baked on pots and pans whereas most of the time even the sensor was will get pans spotlessly clean.

Seeming as you mention it, Finish and Fairy are the detergents that don't work as well in the dishwasher!

Jon

 

[variomatic]

My new Bosch TOL DW also has a auto 55-65° programme. When I´m starting the dishwaser with the auto programme, the display says that it will take 2:26 - 2:30 h till it´s done.. But most of the time it cuts the prewash, and shortens the cycle for 50-60 minutes. I don´t know at which temperature it´s washing or if it adds extrarinses and so on, but one thing is certain. Everything, really EVERYTHING comes out sparkling clean!

 

[Bearpeter]

I have the Bosch slimline...

This has the Auto programme... have to say... the final rinse water is not always clear. It cleans well but I do think it could have done with an extra rinse at times to ensure the final water is clear... after all, that final rinse has to make the dishes "sparkle!!!"

 

[favorit]

Variomatic - What about your nightmare Favorit ?
Was it a rebadged Zanussi (horizontal upper basket)
or a real AEG (old-Bauknecht-style slanted upper basket, as Jon' s one)?

It sad to say for us in Italy, but Zannies are loosing their reliability: as you can see on many electrolux euro brands websites now there is a recall on zanussi-made DW

Bearpeter -Rinse(s): this is another of my doubts about latest DWs. I read on some manuals that some programmes have just one rinse (i.e. Candy/Hoover "59 minutes", Zanussi/A.E.G. "30 minutes 60°C"). This is the trick: these cycles are faster because don't run interim rinse.Tub and load are still hot after wash so sparkling rinse heat up is even faster. But is ONE rinse enough ? don't think so.

Carlo

 

[logixx]

We have a B/S/H, too, which has two Auto cycle: 55-65° and 65-75°. I usually use the regular Auto wash for most loads. It's interesting to see how the DW alters the cycle.

The pre-wash is always heated on the Auto cycles. Nothing special there: it'll either do a pre-wash or continue right into the main wash.

The main wash on Auto 55-65° usually starts out on medium water pressure. Sometimes it'll go back and forth between low and medium. It usually ends with some minutes of high pressure spraying. It once happened that I ran the machine empty to clean it and, after skipping the pre-wash, the machine decided to wash both baskets simultaneously - I guess to save time on this low-soil load. On Auto 65-75° it focuses on exclusively washing the lower basket for some minutes and the pressure it on high throughout the wash. At the end of both the pre- and main wash the pumps alternate between spraying and draining.

I once heard the DW doing two interim rinses due to high-sudsing detergent. Usually, rinsing is only a purge, then the interim rinse, which is sometimes follow by a second purge. The final rinse is always low water level and low pressure.

varioSpeed is a really nice feature - it literary turns the clock back by more than a decade: lots of water, heat and pressure clean in little time.

 

[logixx]

Here's the, well, cycle chart of the new Blomberg SmartTouch dishwasher. It has basically only one cycle to choose from, which is the Auto cycle. There might be more cycles, but I haven't found the manual yet.

 

[variomatic]

favorit

Yes, my AEG favorite really was a nightmare. I always thought that i´d have a good dishwasher and I always was more or less pleased with the results! But most of time, I only put in plates, glasses and other lightly soiled dishes. Pots &pans have nearly always been washed in the sink.
But since I have the Bosch, I put everyhting in it and 60min to 2:30 h later, everything is sparkling!
However, I think it was a real AEG and not a rebadged Zanussi or something like that. The racking was a great mess and the racks really were shaky and poor quality.
But anyway, I´m happy not having it any longer. It just would have been a small repair to get it fixed but I prefered getting a new one. After I got my new one, I even repaired it and finally sold it for 200€. That´s fun because we bought it for 400€ and used it for 5 years!!
The AEG also had the 30minutes cycle doing a main rinse and then starting with the final rinse. My dishes were cleaned not too well and the glasses also were cloudy when the cycle was done. My new Bosch performs the 45° Quick cycle in 30-40 minutes doing a main rinse, interim rinse and then a final rinse at 55°C. It cleans very well and the glassware also is shiny ans sparkling but the drying results aren´t that good, but it dries sufficiently. All in all: I never had a better dishwasher than my new Bosch and I also think that it´s the best you can get! A consumer report also rated it best, Miele only was one second place!

 

[rolls_rapide]

Sensor Washes

My Bosch 'Logixx' has three sensor programmes: Auto Delicate (35-45 deg C.), Auto Wash (45-55 deg C.), and Auto Super Wash (60 - 70) deg C.

The Auto Wash 45-55 deg C. had a prerinse that virtually was always kept for the main wash; an intermediate rinse and the final hot rinse. Drying is done by cold wall condensation method.

I tried the Auto Wash 45-55 deg C. for various loads, but found that cups and glasses had a greasy dishwashery smell and taste, as though there was insufficient rinsing taking place. In my mind, similar to someone handwashing crockery in tepid greasy water, and not rinsing before placing on the draining board. Puts one quite off!

I tend to use the 'Auto Super Wash' @ 60-70 deg C. This has two intermediate rinses and does a better job all round, and there is no smell/taste from the crockery.

The 'Auto Super Wash' has a prerinse that is kept for the main wash in most circumstances. The only exception is when cheese sauce dishes (macaroni cheese) are present; then the water is tipped out and fresh added.

'Auto Super Wash' time display varies between 2hrs 14 mins and 2hrs 32 mins, with several stages of "Recalculating Time". However, the actual measured time (by me) is always 2hrs 10 mins.

I agree with 'logixx', the final rinse is a low-pressure, slow rinse, probably to keep glasses in fine fettle. I always think that the machine is not operating correctly, having previously been used to Zanussi and Hoover machines where the spray is full power.

'lavamat_jon' mentions cheap but effective supermarket detergent. I agree, and so did Which? Magazine. Tesco's Value standard tablets and Lidl's W5 standard tablets performed almost as well as the 'multi-in-ones' from Finish. Tesco's has a lime fragrance to them which is quite refreshing. Lidl's has almost no smell. AND they don't foam up like some of the others.

 

[favorit]

Variomatic,so now you've to call BSH service to update your nickname into IntervallVarioSchleuder ;-))

Touch iron/wood, I hope my favorit will resist for some years.
When I'll have to change, don't dare no more with E'lux and will go back on Miele or BSH
It's my sister's 6yo zanussi that is about to die, so we're looking around

BTW Electrolux brands now seem on late: BSH has VarioSpeed, Miele has Turbo,Candy and Smeg have similar features

I' ve seen in a store latest ActiveWater BSHs. Racks are even more improved. Finally draining pumps are quiet too. But I was very surprised when I opened the TOL model : it has a miele-style cutlery tray !!! Probably after 20 years patent has expired. Anyway it hasn't the 3rd spray arm, so wonder if it works with such a small spinning nozzle .....

Logixx - what about "new Blomberg" reliablity ? Some time ago their semi-commercial washers were quite diffused also rebadged with professional laundry equipment brands

-Bosch is as Skoda, Siemens as WW , Neff wie Audi, Gaggenau as Porsche. This is true in ovens, ranges and fridges.
But is a Neff DW so different from a Bosch one?

Carlo

 

[rolls_rapide]

BSH

As far as I can gather, Bosch is basically freestanding appliances.

Siemens appears to be the semi-integrated appliances.

Neff appears to be the completely built-in / hidden range.

Gaggenau seems to be the 'arty-farty' range.

But they are all basically Bosch machines in different clothing.

 

[rolls_rapide]

favorit

I was disappointed too, with Zanussi quality. My mother had a Zanussi dishwasher that lasted 7 years, followed by another that lasted 5 years, followed by another that lasted just over 3 years. (Basket wheels fell off, door springs went, corner of control panel cracked and fell off!).

She now has a Hotpoint (Indesit made) that is noisy and just as cheaply made, but it washes well and she likes it. The only thing that has proved to be shoddy quality, is the door catch. The small internal interlock spring keeps snapping every couple of years.

 

[logixx]

Don't know about the new Blomberg's Smart Touch reliability. Our consumer magazine tested Blomberg dishwashers twice before and quite liked them.

What I really liked about our AEG dishwasher was the upper rack. Since it was tilted, I could fit large plates (for pizza) in the bottom, while it would still hold long-stemmed glasses in the top. The Siemens will either fit tall items in the bottom OR top. I know they have this wire for holding glasses in the bottom but I need that space for plates. I can see this being even more of a problem with the cutlery tray, now. Other than that, I do not miss the AEG. It's 60 minute fan-assisted drying cycle never dried as well as the 17 minute dry of our Siemens.

@ Rolls rapide: I think the final rinse is low pressure because the fill level is so low so there isn't enough water to recirculate at high speed. varioSpeed does a full-pressure rinse but also fills to the max (and also heats during the interim rinse).

Alex

 

[rudin1969]

The new German consumer magazine DW test rates the new Miele G1343 highest, whereas according to Which? the Activewater Bosch with Cutlery tray does not qualify as a Best Buy.
If I'm not mistaken, the 'adjust sensor wash' function on Miele DWs raises the temperature to 55 degrees

 

[mrboilwash]

I have an older Bosch and have to say I prefer for most loads the non-automatic 50°C cycle.
It has an automatic 55°-65° cycle that has let me down sometimes with cloudy glasses on slightly soiled loads.
Though it always performs a cold interim rinse before the final rinse, I think the skip of a purge is to blame for.
It has also been unreliable if only a few items are badly incrusted on an otherwise rather clean load.
I also experienced trouble with the low preassure final rinse leading to a frozen-up upper spray arm and leaving a mess of rinse aid on the door. But the type of detergent I use seems to make a huge difference on both problems.
So on balance it`s a good dishwasher, but automatic programmes and turbity sensors are quite unnecessary for my needs.

 

[rolls_rapide]

mrboilwash

Which rinse-aid do you use? I found that there were streaky rinse-aid deposits in my Bosch, when I used those gloopy versions that are meant to dry plastics. (Finish Turbodry and P&G's Fairy version).

Ordinary rinse-aids appear to be okay in my machine.

I've also noticed that some detergents are too foamy. So much so, that if you open the door during the wash phase (maybe to add a forgotten item), the machine sometimes goes into 'suds lock' and the diverter valve will not properly flip, preventing any water going to either spray arm.

I don't open the machine anymore once it is set in motion.

 

[mrboilwash]

I use Somat rinse aid, it has about the same vicosity as water. As long as the upper spray arm is turning in the last rinse everything is fine.