Electrolux vs. DAM

[veg-o-matic]

Here's a question for the Vacuum Gurus.

I have an Electrolux Discovery Plus upright that I really like. Not sure how old it is, as I got it off ebay a couple of years ago. It's nice and solid and heavy and works well.

The only upright I'd consider as a replacement would be a Hoover Dial-A-Matic. Why? 'Cause I like the design!

Should I come across a DAM on my travels, would it make a good replacement for the Lux? Other than the handle problem, are there any drawbacks to the DAM?

Do they come in any pretty colors? Or would I be limited to Hoover's famed Hideous Lime Green?

Thanks for you help.

veg

 

[hoover1060]

oh boy....

Veg,
The DAM came in a rainbow of colors, so you won't be limited to lime green.
You pose an interesting question though, I have never thought too much of the Lux uprights(except for the first ones)so I'd say a DAM would give you better carpet performance than the Lux by a mile.
I always thought the suction motor in the Lux was wimpy, the ductwork in the cleaner itself a nightmare, and Lux brushrolls have not been known for their "dig into the rug" performance, that is unless you have all berber/thin carpets.
The downside to the DAM is its filtration system is not all that, and the bags are getting harder and harder to find.
Still in my opinion, a DAM thats properly tuned and greased would sweep circles around that Lux upright.
What you need is a Convertible! {ducks and runs}

 

[petek]

Don't know how well an Elux upright works but he DAMs are pretty good, they're one of my faves just for the look as well. Don't forget they also come either self propelled or not. I have one of both

 

[brettsomers]

IMO the Dial A Matic cleans better. the DAM is also a beast to push, since the rear wheels are WAY too small. if youre dealing with a DAM with the older, softer brushes, an Electrolux Discovery-style upright may clean as well. the weakness of the handle on the DAM is a considerable flaw. some might call it "pilot error", i call it bad engineering! though a tad top-heavy (like most modern clean-air uprights) i find the Discovery style upright to be nimble and easy, i like the L-shaped powerhead. i also dont care for power drive, so thats not an option for me. go ahead and get the DAM, but dont "replace" the Discovery so quick. it may not be a great carpet cleaner (like a Convertible) but there are lots of good things about the Lux. David

 

[hoover1060]

I totally disagree

That the DAM's handle is bad engineering. Thats a bunch of crap. I have almost every DAM model represented in my collection, and while there are a few wobbly handles, there are also some that are just like new. Its not bad engineering its the way the machine was handled.

There have been lots of broken Convertible handle forks over the years too. Will you call that bad engineering too?
Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[hooverwheelaway]

DAM Handles...

Good points, Jeff...

My 1100 DAM was used by the same lady for 40 years. It came into the shop for a new cord (her cleaning lady ran over its ORIGINAL cord, and chewed it up). She ended up very affectionately giving the cleaner to me, as I replaced her machine with a new one. I assured her it was going to a good home...she appreciated that and told me that she took great care of it for those 40 years (after all, it still had it's original cord, and it was the cleaning lady who her children bought her as a gift who practically murdered it). Anyways, it's mint. The handle is tight, it's got no furniture scrapes, it has the original white filter inside the bag chamber, it has the red switch, it had the original brush strips (which I replaced), so on...

She told me that when she purchased it, she was told not to lift it by the handle; she was shown the convenient carrying handle--and had used that to transport the machine over the years. She was also the primary user of the machine.

I also have a model 1136 that was used as a 'loaner' machine at the store I used to work. Its handle is another story. Many, many, many people took that machine home, and used it. It would most of the time, come back filthy; and it would come in the door being carried by the handle--after being wheeled across the parking lot, of course.

Yes, the handle was problematic, over time--and they knew it, I think. Hoover did change the design of the screw that holds the handle in place at one point.

But, one also has to realize that Hoover spent a LOT of money designing the DAM, Portable, and Slimline--I don't think that re-designing it was really much of an option. After all, they didn't have the luxury of computer aided anything back then--and re-designing something was a major undertaking.

For 1963, the machine was SO far ahead of it's time; it really revolutionized the vacuum industry. After all...ALL clean-air machines on the market today are anscestors of the Dial A Matic.

Could the fact that the fan on a Convertible could be broken also be construed as bad engineering,? How about ripping the cord out of the handle socket? Or dropping the machine on it rear wheels--resulting in the infamous 'wobble'?

~Fred

 

[petek]

me think Freds got his dander up.. LOL
Since I haven't had my DAMS all that long I was unaware that there was or could be a handle problem so I just went and checked both of mine and they're as tight as they ever were from the factory. I haven't really used either other than when I first go them a couple of times. The non self propelled one is a bit of a bugger to push, not for me mind you, but I know my mom would have a time with it now and my sister with arthritis it would be out of the question totally. Quite the opposite with the self propelled model it actually works smoother and easier than my Powermax and way easier than the G3 Elux. I had some friends over last Saturday for dinner and one of them was a building caretaker..he was looking at all the vacs and oddly enough didn't even know about self propelled vacs. He really enjoyed the DAM self propelled and the G3. Now put the DAM against its later "versions" which are the Panasonics, i.e. that Jet Flo I have and what a difference, the Jet Flo is so light and manouverable and not anywhere near as noisy as the DAM. It's a wonderful vacuum I think, anyone else have one or used one?

 

[petek]

Pics of the Panasonics in case anyone isn't familiar with them. This one here is a super vacuum I think, look at how much cord it has. You can't see it in front picture shot but on either side of the motorhousing there are two revolving brushes, extensions of the brushroll that actually do allow you to get right up into the crevices along the wall. This ones quieter than the DAM but not as quiet as the next pic, the smaller Jet Flo model

 

[petek]

Here's the little Jet Flo, I just love this little vac because of its manouverability and how quiet it is for an upright. You can carry on a conversation with it running.
I wonder why Panasonic didn't keep the Dial-a-matic dial on the back of these like the original Hoover had? Instead there's just an opening port for sticking the hose in.

 

[hooverwheelaway]

Dander?

Hey Pete-

Nope, dander isn't up.. Just further playing devil's advocate...

A good debate can be enjoyable every now and then.

~Fred

 

[petek]

Here's a picture of them together so you can see the similarity of the Panasonic to its DAM predecessor. Panasonic did put much larger rear wheels on which makes them easier to push and the power switch moved to the front of the handle.

 

[westytoploader]

Hi Bob,

Unfortunately the Type D bags for the Dial-A-Matic have recently been discontinued, so it's best to look on eBay and other places for spares to "save up", so to speak. As for the handle, there's no "bad engineering" to it, IMHO; it just it depends on the machine itself. My Power Drive DAM from the late-70's (light blue) isn't exactly the prettiest machine cosmetically, but works like a charm and the handle is tight. My non-self-propelled 1149 DAM has the handle wobble, but other than that it is in good shape. My reasoning is that it depends on the machine and the user. While I don't lift the Power Drive machine up by the main handle, I need to get in the habit of using the carrying handle on the 1149!!

From my experience, DAM's clean well on carpet and have TREMENDOUS tool suction. Unless you have the tools, they're not the best on bare floors; since the hose is mounted on the right of the base (from the user's perspective) it is harder for the dirt to be picked up and tends to scatter. I believe you won't go wrong with one of these!!

--Austin

 

[westytoploader]

And there's mine...

My Power Drive DAM is exactly like Pete's, on the far right.

 

[hoover1060]

Fred makes a good point too

The DAM was a HUGE risk for Hoover, namely because for the previous 55 years before the DAM everything had a bag on the back of the handle and a vertical motor on top of the base.
The DAM was totally different, and I believe thought out as much as possible for its time.
If you examine an 1100 DAM(first) and a U5015(last) there are very few differences between the two. I think Hoover believed in their DAM, and so they changed little on it. From the machines I have seen over the years they did revise the handle mount several times, and the agitator spiral was reversed. Thats about it. The biggest changes were made between models 1100 and 1110, where the ductwork was enlarged in the bag door, the full bag indicator added, and the nozzle hose revised so it could be removed easier from the bag door in case of a clog. From then on, they changed little
Panasonic did their version when they bought the patents. They may have a better cleaner than the DAM, but comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[hooverwheelaway]

D Bags

Hey Austin-

The type D Bags have not been discontinued. They're still an active part number in our system; we got two cases in last week with a shipment of bags. We still go through a ton of them! It's just getting harder and harder to find them at places other than vacuum stores.

~Fred

 

[brettsomers]

the loosening of the handles on Dial A Matics was so common, that for many years an aftermarket part was available meant to strengthen the handle. im told a lot of these reinforcements were sold. and most everybody who knows anything about Dial A Matics knows the handles loose reputation. unless you were to buy this reinforcement for the handle, there is no way to tighten the handle on a Dial A Matic once its loose. on plush carpets the rear wheels really get buried in the nap. the machine gets soo hard to push im sure this helps to loosen the handles as well. for sure, the loose handle problem was very common. Hoover resolved this quite well on the model that "replaced" the Dial A Matic. The Concept vacuum has a very strong handle with excellent rear wheels. i have always said that Panasonic really did some good things with the Dial's design. i actually like the Dial A Matic. thats why i wish Hoover wouldnt have abandoned it, just improved it, instead of designing an all-new machine (Concept One). I like Hoover because they did some Great Things with vacuums. im not so sure *a non Hoover enthusiast* should replace their current vacuum with a DAM. David

 

[hoover1060]

Ummm well think about it

The DAM was designed in the late 50's and debuted in 1963. Shag and plush carpet were unheard of back then. Rather than redesign the DAM, Hoover came out with a new cleaner that would clean Shag and Plush very well: The Concept One.

You also can't really compare DAM and Concept handle mounts. The pivot point is different, as are the handle mounts. The Concept handle goes into the housing about 4 inches, the DAM's maybe 1.5?
you're comparing apples to oranges again my friend.

 

[petek]

Fruit salad, yay!!!!

 

[hoover1060]

you're too funny Pete!!

 

[brettsomers]

something else just occured to me. is it possible to take one of the double-brush commercial Convertible agitators and put it in a Dial A Matic? has anyone tried this?

 

[hooverwheelaway]

Brushrolls!

You can take the double-row brushroll used on the PowerMax/PowerDrive machines from the mid-90's, and swap the endcap that has the 'nipple' on it. That will fit in a powerdrive Dial A Matic. It REALLY works well on modern plush carpeting, it eats the dirt and grooms the nap of the carpet--and deletes the track marks left by the powerdrive assembly, that you normally see (at least on my carpet).

The 4-brush brushroll for the Convertible won't work in a non-powerdrive DAM; it has a groove for the belt, and as a result is too wide. It may work on a powerdrive DAM... by putting a belt pulley on one end, and using the longer agitator shaft. (The powerdrive DAM's used the same brushroll as a Celebrity Powerhead--that had the groove for the belt--the shell was the same as that of the Convertible).

Hmm. I'll have to play around with that.. Good Ideas.

~Fred

 

[hoover1060]

Brushrolls, Brushrolls...

Hoover always got the most out of some parts!
A Convertible brush roll body(2-brush/2-beater bar)will fit in a DAM powerdrive and the first generation Celebrity power nozzle, with the swapping of the ends and such.
The Celebrity and DAM p/d agitators are interchangable as they are.
With the swapping of 1 end plate you can put a Concept One Quadreflex agitator or the Elite style PowerDrive agitator in the DAM p/d as Fred described above. They work well, the only problem is drag on the motor/belt from all that extra bristle.
I don't know that a 4 brush Convertible agitator will work in the DAM, mainly because of the belt end. The DAM's belt pulley end may not work in the 4 brush.
I suppose you could try a Concept One and and see how that goes!

 

[veg-o-matic]

Wow, thanks for all the info, guys!

I'm thinking I want a self-propelled DAM. I remember messing with the button on the handle of one when we were in an appliance store buying an air conditioner.

Anyone have a "rainbow shot" to show the available colors?

veg

 

[hoover1060]

I'll get you a "rainbow shot" tonight Veg

 

[veg-o-matic]

Big smooch to you!

veg

 

[jasonl]

Discontinued bags

And here's why...

"Hello? I need a bag for my DAM vacuum. "
"We ain't go no more bags for your DAM vacuum, now leave me alone.

 

[westytoploader]

Thanks Fred...I had no idea about the DAM bags still being around!!!

About a year ago, I read *somewhere* (maybe it was on one of the Yahoo vacuum groups) that Hoover was no longer going to produce the Type D bags, but I'm relieved that it isn't true!! Although even if it was, I have enough bags in my "hoard" to last a while, and there is eBay...

Couldn't remember who made that remark, but whoever that was needs to get their facts straight

--Austin

 

[myhooverco]

if misused...

Here is an example of a Dam that was not used properly. The carrying handle was more than just for convenience it was to protect the machine. I do however think that the Dam had some design flaws and am not sure why they chose not to redesign the machine or improve it. The major improvements came with the introduction of the second model 1110 and with the advent of the powerdrive feature in 1969. It was basically a good idea and a good vacuum if you used it correctly something that the average American user is clueless about. My mother's Dam from 1977 is still in my collection. The only problem it ever had was the handle breaking. It was repaired with a metal neck brace that looked like something from a Frankenstein movie. I restored it, replacing the entire body structure in part thanks to Jeff Parker. That machine has thousands of hours on it, but my mom was very good about changing the belt and bag. Nonetheless it still broke. It was definitely a weak point but it also was used for over 10 years and longer after the handle fix. Here in North Canton, you never see a Concept for sale. They are still used...ocassionally you will find a Dam but they are not as prized as the Concept. However, the Dam wins the award for the most innovative vacuum from the Hoover lineup.

 

[toggleswitch]

I blame all of you!

I went to Homo Depot and checked out the vacuum cleaners. I was acutally comparing the engineering! I pinched myself to get out without buying one.

Then I went on to washers an DW-ers and stoves just to re-establish my sense of balance.

Sign me~
Starting to get enamored by things that suck.

 

[myhooverco]

a rainbow of colors...

Here are my Dams. They go from the 1100 on the left to the last of them the U5015 from the later 70's. My mom's green Dam is the third one from the right. I have all of the American standard non powerdrive Dams. I do have the first Dam with powerdrive and the second Dam with powerdrive AND a headlight. I do not have a passion for the powerdrive units and also have limited space. I hung them on the wall flat to save room. I disconnected the handle spring on the bottom. These machines all run and are complete. My personal favorite is the first green unit from 1969 compliments of Jeff Parker. Again a unique design and a very strong well made versatile motor. Hoover spent thousands if not millions bringing this machine to market. They really should not have given up on it so quickly. And worse yet they should not have sold the patent to Panasonic. I guess if they didn't do that then we would not have the Concept, which is one of their best carpet cleaning uprights by the way! I just thought you all might enjoy the rainbow. I hope Jeff posts his pics of Dams...he has some models that I don't! Thanks to everyone for this thread!

--Tom