Energy wasters

[hoovermatic]

I am always amazed at the attitude of some people to the environment, and I am not just referring to some responses that this question has garnered. Only today, a work collegue refused to put his empty Coke cans in the recycling bin, which is provided because he wasn't being paid to do it. It was one of the most selfish attitudes I have encountered in some while. So many people seem to care less than nothing for the environment and the future generations that will suffer because of our greed and resolute refusal to change our attitudes.

I am very passionate about this and recycle virtually everything I can. What recyclables aren't collected by the council, I take to the recycling centres at the local supermarket. I am going there anyway to buy food so what is the problem? I know some people have no cars etc so they in that are helping.

It makes me sick when I hear people saying that they don't care. Perhaps they should think themselves lucky they are on the planet now and not in 100 years time when the landfills are all full and huge container ships prowl the oceans looking for somewhere to dump their toxic cargoes.

I have replaced as many of the light bulbs with energy saving ones, which are massively reduced in price and last much longer, despite the doom mongers who witter on about them being too expensive. My local electric supplier sent me some for free also.

One of the best ways to reduce my heating bills has been a de-humidifier. Only today, have I turned on my heating for an hour only, as it got too warm. This is down to the drier air being easier to warm and to run the de-humidifier is very economical. I recommend them to everyone after 8 years experience of one.

For months, I have been dropping laundry temps to 30 degrees. Yes, I agree that some items, like heavily soiled tea towels and such require a hotter wash and they get 50 degrees rather than the 60 they used to get. EVERYTHING else gets 30 and I have not one complaint about staining, smells or any of these other problems I read about. When I lived in Australia, I, like a vast proportion of the population, washed EVERYTHING in cold water and never had any problems. Unfortunately, the cold water in the UK at this time of year it too cold to do that. It seems that there are still many people in this country are still clinging on to the old ways of boil washing and over dosing detergents and fabric softeners in the misguided belief that it is superior and appropriate.

The time came (a long time ago) to pay attention to the facts and they are that if we carry on polluting this planet it won't be fit for habitation. But there are those who don't care, as they won't be around to see that event occur. good for them but they may be comforted in the knowledge that they played their part in the planet's demise.

I don't say all these things to any particular contributor to this thread as I have been on the receiving end of unfair critisism for speaking my mind. These are the opinions that I have with everyone on this topic and make no apologies for them.

 

[aquarius1984]

not that im kicking off or anything, im treading very politely but this is a topic where we all must agree to disagree. I proven to myself whites dont clean full stop on 30 degrees. Even with Ariel. Maybe we should stop creating threads like this. Its not good. What works for me does not work for others. And vice versa. Lets just keep the peace. Nick.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hoovermatic- I'm with you all the time when it comes to recycling. It pisses me off when I see people put stuff that can go in recycling straight into the dustbin, or even worse just on the street will throw their rubbish on the floor. Fortunately Lincoln has a good town council and you often see a lot of rubbish pickers on the street, however you wouldn't really need them if people were all just responsible and did their bit. However the ludicrous thing is that our local council (we're just outside of Lincoln so are served by NK District council) only collects dustbins and recycling bins, get this, EVERY TWO WEEKS. Now if you recycle everything the bin fills up in a week and stuff does overflow into the black bin, which hardly gets full at all. And being a busy working family we don't always have the time to take the recycling to a recyling centre (supermarket trips are rushed as they are, both Asda and Tesco are hellholes here). We've complained several times to the council, and have also wrote in to the local Look North regional news programme and have had it mentioned when they were running a story on it (with lots of complaints to the council), but still 6 months later we've heard nothing from NKDC, the only option they're offering us being that we can pay £100 for a larger bin!!!

I also don't drive at the moment, and see no point at the moment as I have local buses which run into town - so I try and take public transport as often as possible. And when I do eventually drive, I'll still commit myself to trying to use the car only when necessary. Cars emit more carbon dioxide emissions then washing machines, and me doing my bit in terms of transport both saves more than switching to 30*C ever would, plus allows me to do washes at 60 or even 95*C sometimes without a guilty conscience. As I mentioned before I wash all my 40*C laundry now at 30*C, but I won't reduce the temperature below 60 for towels/whites or sheets just as a personal & hygiene preference.

In terms of problems with no hot washes in machines - I have seen (as I have mentioned before) a lot of machines with mould problems, and they are always usually with people who have the cycle selector permanently set on 40*C... we've always used high temperatures (60*C) at least once or twice a week and never have problems with mould or smells building up in the washer. And I don't really think my beliefs are misguided, seeming as it is all trial and error on my part and that I have found what works best for me. In terms of detergent - I have the habit of using the water hardness dosages below the one I am - we have hard water here, so I use medium water doses and get good results. I did buy some water softening tablets today actually to use in the washing machine, so I will try reducing the detergent dosage to soft water to see if that helps though in my opinion limescale tablets probably add just as much chemicals to the water as the normal dose of detergent would so it might just equal out. (If that makes sense lol). Fabric softener I've never used a full dose on, and I only use it on clothes and jeans to reduce static cling, and to break away the "brittle" feeling jeans have if you don't use it. I've actually noticed that sheets and towels come out the dryer soft and fluffy anyway so there isn't need to use fabric softener on them. I've also been using eco-friendly fabric softener (currently using a bottle of Ecover fabric softener, and bought Tesco's own brand one earlier on today to try out afterwards) - and also only use half a cap even for a 6 kilo load. I personally hate it when clothes are "too soft" like they are if you use the full doses. Have tried Ecover washing powder too but won't be trying that again - there's no wonder it's environmentally friendly seeming as it doesn't clean very well at all! So I will remain with Persil, Bold or Ariel (in that order) for the time being.

BTW - I have an A+ rated washing machine, which uses less electricity on a 60*C wash than older washers do even when washing at just 40*C.

In laundry terms, I also try to limit my dryer usage even in winter. I try to only dry towels, sheets and underwear in the tumble dryer and everything else goes on the clothes horse. Not only is this more environmentally friendly, but it's also kinder on the clothes too and (especially with our stupidly small dryers here) creases aren't set in too easily either.

Lightbulbs - I have standard R63 spotlights in my bedroom, which are normal bulbs. However I hardly use the "big lights", and usually just use my desk lamp and my bedside table lamp for lighting - not only does it save energy over using the big light but also makes for a more relaxing atmosphere to wind down to in the evening too.

I must admit I am a slave to the stand-by button to turn the TV off overnight. I will watch TV in bed and hit stand by as it's all too easy when I want to go to sleep, and also in the morning it's good because you don't have to get out of bed to put GMTV or BBC Breakfast on, but it's always switched off when I have gotten up and am done with the TV.

Interesting to hear about the dehumidifers, it's worth thinking about. I feel the cold an awful lot and my radiator is always cranked on full blast in winter - even if I wear thick jumpers.

Curiously, what washing machine do you own?

Jon

P.S. I also think the reintroduction of Ultra washing powders would be a huge help in the laundry industry when it comes to being more environmentally friendly.

 

[vivalalavatrice]

Don't exagerate...

I thinks that the right choice is to don't exagerate... considering every use of the energy in our life. From the hot water for a shower, to the energy consumed for a wash cycle.

None said to be dirtier... You should be clean after staying after a 40°C shower for a quarter of an hour so why don't consider to stay less and let it last 10 min only? You'll be clean the same but you have saved water...simply it's enough to don't exagerate,
Or if you have to wash at max temperature your laundry, because of the level soil, becasue of the detergent you use...I can't imagine that you have to get IN ANY CASE the max temp even if is not necessary because YOU LIKE TO DO LIKE THAT!

I do whites at 70°C GENERALLY, it means that if I find them not so dirt I decreas the temp e maybe don't do the prewash...

So, don't think with standing parameters but let's think with changeble parameters...adapting every day our energy usage to the REAL need we will reduce the energy wasting in a great percentual...

Really I though they were americans the bigger wasters (sorry lovely US people, you know I love you all! )... just never thought to Canadians and even less to Britannics...

Until we cannot take the best advantages of the "renewable energies" (less environementally inpactive) I thinkg the situation will not change... we will see our earth to die...

GoodBye
Diomede

 

[hoovermatic]

Jon - I have a Hotpoint TL, the slimline variety but I also have the old agi one - which is not in use. I also have a mains water softener so use about a quarter of the recommended dose, for everything, from shampoo to Jif and Ariel and softener etc etc. A small box of Ariel last me about 2 months.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hoovematic

Ah cool. I've always been interested in a water softener - water here is relatively hard to the extent that if you don't wipe down the washer door and door seal every so often limescale forms on it. Same with kettles - you can buy a new kettle here and within a week or two it has furred up already. But the fact that I can get away with a medium water dose of Persil or Ariel just shows that the manufacturers recommend using more than you really need.

A 30 wash box of powder will last me about 2 months for colours, and 3 months perhaps for whites, as I don't wash whites or sheets that frequently. But now I've got these water softener tabs I'll try dosing for soft water - I did a couple of loads earlier but it's a habit to dump a full scoop in the drawer (which is Persil's medium water dose) but I did get more foaming than usual.

I see you still call "Cif" Jif too... we're too ignorant to call it by it's new name. We still call channel 3 Yorkshire too rather than ITV1, and of course Opal Fruits instead of Starburst.

Take care,

Jon

 

[glamwales]

It is clear that the comments are directed to me. But until there is a global shift not just in the UK I don’t care about Global warming and Energy use. I will not apologise for my view either. I frankly don’t care what will happen after im not here! Do you really think that global pollution is fixed to location? Would the fact that if the UK does it bit, really matter while other countries pollute the earth?

I do recycle but once my pathetic microwave size box is full that’s it. I also, resent the fact that I have to separate items into plastic bags or they will not be taken away - How is this environmentally sound? Until systems are in place for effective weekly recycling I see no point at all. The current environmental hype is nothing more than scare mongering and will result in increase costs to working and middle class people - typical of this country (UK). As Jon has stated, people will be more inclined to recycle once it is made easier – there is no excuse not to have weekly collections.

Where I live public transport is more expensive than keeping a car. I will not pay to use a dirty bus or train while there are 5 cars outside. Actually in this part of the world you will be hard pushed to find public transport after 6 pm. Again, this means it is not viable to give up the car.

As for energy light bulbs - have u seen what they look like in period 5 arm light fittings Oh , I don’t think so some how ... As a family we have worked hard to have a nice house and standard of living, if environmental alternatives are more expensive, its not a priority.

End of the matter ________________

 

[aquarius1984]

names that stick

i still call cif jif too as well as oral fruits. And that particular uk soap shot in the Yorkshire Dales will always be Emerdale Farm to me. I dont say vacuum cleaner either lol. Its just "the hoover" even though its electrolux. And when i use it I "hoover up" My dialect can be awful at times. I stick' kettle on when i get home from work. Etc etc. Nick.

 

[dascot]

I recycle everything that I can, our local council has a 3 bin system. One for recyclable waste (tins, plastics, paper and cardboard), one for compostable garden waste and one for everything else. In addition to that I take other things (glass etc) to the recycling depot when I need to. I did this even before they started the 3 bin system anyway. I, along with a few colleagues, have been trying to get work to start encouraging recycling too.

I do the majority of my laundry at 40/50/60C, with the occasional wash at 90C. I don't see why I shouldn't - I have an energy efficient machine, I wash full loads and having soft water I don't need to overdose on detergents. I use a dryer, but not all the time. If I have space on the airer when it's wet out I'll tumble them for 20 minutes and then put on the clothes airer.

I drive, not everywhere but the majority of places because it's far more convenient to do so than to use public transport. If I lived in the city, I probably wouldn't have a car, but I don't.

Incidentally, you mention the UK being named as the biggest energy wasters in Europe, but I've not seen any mention of the government's ludicrous plans for more nuclear power stations in preference to utilising the natural resources and providing green energy. Nor do the government encourage people to be environmentally friendly, in some areas they make it incredibly difficult.

 

[Cybrvanr]

I believe in global warming, but I don't think it's being caused by humans...the earth has had temperature cycles throughout it's life, and we've only been here a very short while. Besides, if a volcano blows up, it throws out more "greenhouse" gasses than humankind has ever produced with all it's hydrocarbon activity.

As far as pollution goes, I try not to pollute because I don't like to breathe dirty air, drink dirty water, and see trash sitting around on land. It's more of a local thing for me. and a courtesy thing to the others that live around me. Not only do I not want it, but I know someone else is not going to want smell my stinky worn out furnace or out of tune automobile. I'm not going to waste so much electricity that the power company has to open up or upgrade another stinky coal plant in my city. I refuse to leave a field of toxic waste for my kids to clean up!

Here in Virginia, we already have problems with private companies opening up landfills and accepting out of state trash...the trash industry is big here! Because of that, I'm going to try and not contribute to the problem by recycling, and at the very least, minimizeing the volume of garbage I generate in my daily living.

Much of what I do is not a sacrifice in life, but things that make my life better. CFL lamps give out nicer light than incandescants, and they don't heat up the house either. Less trash means less vile, stinky stuff to deal with. I have found many of the "natural" choises in life to be better...have any of you drank organic milk....great stuff! Yes, it's more expensive, but definitely worth it!

One of the best ways I have found to help the world out is just what we love doing here at A.W. and that is re-using older things. Many of the articles I have here in my home are older products that people have thrown out. Yes, some older products consume more energy when they are used, but the amount of energy and resources needed to produce a new product, and then dispose of an old product I believe outweighs the benefit of replacement.

 

[panthera]

Passions

I think Steven pretty much hit the core of the problem:
"As far as pollution goes, I try not to pollute because I don't like to breathe dirty air, drink dirty water, and see trash sitting around on land. It's more of a local thing for me. and a courtesy thing to the others that live around me. Not only do I not want it, but I know someone else is not going to want smell my stinky worn out furnace or out of tune automobile. I'm not going to waste so much electricity that the power company has to open up or upgrade another stinky coal plant in my city. I refuse to leave a field of toxic waste for my kids to clean up!"
We can disagree on all sorts of things (I, personally, do believe we are contributing to global warming) but they are all minor if we accept that we have a responsibility to leave the place for those who share it with us or those who will come after us in (at least) as good shape as we got it. People who take Neil's approach, frankly, frighten me.

 

[mattywashboy]

I've been washing in tap cold water for the past year now and i'm getting a front loader in november. And i will never let the temp drop below 40*, i want clean clothes for a change, not just clean dirt.
Matt

 

[hoovermatic]

I guess at the end of the day, whatever you do to preserve energy/protect the environment, be it a little or a lot, it boils down to taking responsibility for your actions and not expecting everyone else to do it for you. I realise that in this increasingly litiginous age, taking responsibility for ones own actions is becoming an alien concept. Very sad.

 

[aquarius1984]

Well like i said earlier "this is an area in which we agree to disagree. Hoovermatic you will never change my laundry habits I will not walk around in dirty whites. As much as I recycle, and save the planet other ways. So i think its best not to create Threads like this in order not to stir up arguements. Of which as you state above is ALSO very sad.

 

[hoovermatic]

Sorry I didn't realise that I had to put my subjects for discussion before a panel of judges. I agree that we have to agree to disagree but there is no need to call the discussion sad simply because you don't agree with it.

There is such a thing as free speech and as I passionately agree with my right to it, I will continue to post threads that fit with the criteria of the moderator, whether you like them or not.

 

[aquarius1984]

Oh dear Hoovermatic. Just as i suspected. Your here to stir it up- so who do you work for P and G? Well Ariel sucks. Tell your boss that from me. Not one single positive thread have you made that I can see in the archives. Your profile is empty. You dont share actual washing machine experiences or get involved in other topics. So you just want to wind everyone up when you know full well boil washes are IN with us. Im not rising to your bait. Just letting you know that I know what your upto. So i suggest you dont create threads in this nature,i doubt many people will respond in the future. Your first post on the topic indicated to me where you were going, and you have proven me right. I doubt your actually here as a washer enthusiast.

 

[2-drumsallergy]

P&G Detergents

I have to disagree with the "Ariel sucks" remark. I have tried every detergent available in the UK and I have always found Ariel outperforms the competition. I am not suggesting that Unilever products such as Persil are poor but Ariel is in my experience better. Which magazine regularly test UK detergents P&G products always perform best in fact in a recent Which test of washing up liquids (Dish soap for our American friends) Persil washing up liquid performed so poorly that is was the worst on test. See extract from Which Magazine below.

As an appliance engineer I have also noticed a trend in households that use Surf or Persil powder as their main detergent I always find a white build up on the internal components of the washing machine. This is not lime scale as I live in an area of the UK which enjoys extremely soft water. I have also found where P&G detergents are in use there are no deposits on the internal components. Now I cannot say that this white build up is harmful to the washing machine but lets just put it this way I would not like it in any of my machines.

David

Which Magazine extract:

How do you test washing-up liquids?

To test the liquids, we washed more than 2,300 plates in a machine which mimics the action of washing by hand.

To check how good each liquid was at removing a mixture of everyday foods, we smeared plates with ingredients that replicate residues of pasta, meat, eggs and fish.

We then counted the number of plates cleaned before the foam disappeared.

This gave us our 'Foam duration' rating and a figure for the number of plates 100ml of each liquid could clean.

We then tested for fat removal by pouring a coloured animal fat on to our plates and counted the number cleaned before the fat started to settle back on to them.
Why are there no results for Persil in your data?

Persil is the second biggest brand in the market after Fairy, but its products performed poorly in our laboratory.

The two products we tested, Persil Fresh and Persil Aloe, cleaned fewer fatty plates per squirt of liquid than any other liquid on test – six times fewer than our Best Buys.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Persil vs Ariel

This is a big argument as of recently; but I think that both products are just as good as each other and I'm not really biased as to which one I use. Though I do prefer Persil as it rinses out much more easily than Ariel, which along with other P&G products will tend to sudslock in the wash spin whereas Unilever products don't. I also feel though that Persil does get whites whiter to the eye - when you hang them on the washing line they almost blind you on the washing line whereas Ariel doesn't seem to have the same effect, but they are clean nevertheless. Nevertheless; I did wash a load of whites tonight in my AEG on a long cottons 60*C wash and Ariel still left the bottoms of socks a tinge of light brown whereas I never seem to get that problem with Persil even though I use less. Perhaps it was because I didn't suck up to Ariel's advertising and used 60*C instead of 30, LOL. But anyway, I have found that even with our hard water that you don't have to use as much of Persil and a box of Persil will get you a longer way than a box of Ariel.

I have to say and stress again that I am apalled at how the current batch of Ariel rinses. On the same whites load (I don't use softener because of the towels in the load), even the 5th rinse in the AEG had a layer of suds of about an inch, and was quite cloudy whereas Persil always has a clear rinse by the 2nd rinse, plus the machine had to slow down due to sudslock even on the spin before the final rinse. We have found this to happen too often to the point that my mum doesn't use the Extra Rinse on her machine when she uses Persil non biological but always has to with Fairy or Ariel Sensitive. If she doesn't use the Extra Rinse with Fairy or Ariel Sensitive, my dad and my sister both itch like hell. She tends to use Persil as it means she can get her wash done quicker.

Liquids wise though, the Persil stuff is absolutely awful for rinsing, whereas Ariel is totally opposite it's powders/tablets/liquitabs with it's liquids that it leaves a clear rinse almost straight away.

It does seem to swing between both brands though; before both Persil and Ariel were reformulated last year I found that Ariel was significantly better than Persil and the first batch of the Persil "splat" powder smelt vile, but the tables seem to have turned at the moment.

Not too sure on the washing up liquid as we have used Surcare for a long time due to members of the family having sensitive skin, and never had any problems for it. I have to say though that those new Fairy Active Bursts for the dishwasher still left tea stains on mugs, so I will stick to the good old fashioned Finish dishwasher powder and separate salt & rinse aid. The best one was Glist 5, but only Morrisons sell it now, and we prefer Sainsburys, Tesco or Asda and would sooner shop at Waitrose or Lidl than Morrisons.

Fabric softeners, I've always thought Comfort to the best - Lenor smells too chemical to my nose, but unfortunately both Lenor and Comfort makes me itch so I have to use either Surcare or the eco-friendly softeners. I have found though that Ecover fabric softener actually does quite a good job - as good if not better than Comfort and Lenor, and also doesn't leave a smell or any harmful residues on laundry like Comfort and Lenor do.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

An afterthought

If I remember rightly, when Which last tested detergents, which was around May of last year I believe, both Ariel and Persil came out in the top 2 - Ariel for bio and non bio, and Persil for colour detergent. So again, as I stated in my last post they are both as good as each other in some parts, and better or worse than each other in other parts. They are both better than Bold (which is still a nice detergent), Surf, and that nasty Daz rubbish, or even worse, storebrand detergents.

In terms of the build up though - any build up should be prevented anyway by running a maintenance wash every so often. I do this so I don't worry at all about any deposits building up.

And besides, supporting that a P&G washing machine detergent is better than a Unilever washing machine detergent with figures based on washing up liquids is a bit pointless, unless you wash your whites with Fairy liquid.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

go jon go jon! I have to admit after my dabble with surf tabs this week, Surf is as good as Persil in keeping whites white! On the verge of dropping persil non bio me thinks. Watch this space. Oh hi jon! Give us a wave! Lol.