EU Bans Powerful Vacuums in Name of Environmentalism

[washman]

See Jetcone

that is an example of common sense. Something that is lacking in DC today. And the EU so far as I am concerned.

Thus, to punish homeowners who are the minority in terms of water usage is pure nonsense.

The little secret here is of course money and lobbying! Obviously big biz, big agriculture and big whatever has the $$$ and influence at THEIR disposal to influence legislation to benefit THEM, not you and me. Been that way for years and it will not be going away any time soon.

What is depressing is no one really wants to question all of this. Goobermint sez, I do. Because after all, goobermint knows everything and I'm an unwashed minion incapable of seeing the so-called big picture.

And that is precisely why we're stuck with this eco-crap and why we're having it shoved down our throats 24/7/365.

 

[iej]

We've an utterly insane situation here in Ireland, speaking of mad capped environmental legislation.

Residential (domestic) fresh water has always been provided here as a service by your local city/county council and paid for out of general taxation. The only water users who were metered were businesses.

However, after our financial crisis one of the T&Cs imposed by the "Troika" (EU, IMF and European Central Bank) was that we introduce water metering for residential users. Apparently they seemed to think that the main cause of our housing bubble and banking credit bubble was that we had enjoyed FAR too much 'free' water. So, that had to be fixed immediately under their plan to override Irish democracy and micromanage the economy from Frankfurt (ECB HQ) and Berlin (Angela Merkel's office) (not even Brussels).

This was slipped in as a 'rider' to the bail out basically forcing us to do things that were nothing whatsoever to do with banking or financial issues.

(At one stage the German Bundestag knew our budget before our own parliamentarians did!)

Now, bear in mind that Ireland has a relatively small population 4.6 million, relatively low population density and the climate ensures 'abundant' rainfall. Our only 'water shortage' issues are that Dublin City expanded quite substantially during the 2000s and the reservoir infrastructure needs to catch up which is nothing to do with the availability of fresh water form an environmental point of view.

We've now exited the bailout and are no longer subject to all of these things apparently but we're still allegedly bound by the conditions of this deal which include implementation of water metering.

Slight problems:

1) Irish homes and plumbing was never designed with water metering in mind. This means there's no clear place to put the meter other than in the street outside. There are all sorts of practical plumbing issues with gaining access to the incoming mains (buried under driveways, gardens, external stopcocks may be difficult to locate. You're also talking about homes that may be anything from new to over 300 years old. This isn't all just slotting water meters into suburban driveways.

2) While we don't have that many apartment buildings (less than 3% of the population lives in apartments) none have the cold water supply systems divided up on a per apartment basis. So they're actually impossible to meter.

Here's what they're doing:

1) Create a state-owned utility company "Irish Water"
2) Irish water initially subcontracts its work to the existing city/county councils. (Doubling the bureaucratic layers).
3) Install a water meter in the sidewalk/pavement outside every single home in Ireland. In some cases (not that many) this is easy and cheap, in most it's involving groundworks outside the house and plumbers are encountering all sorts of old cast iron pipes that suddenly give way when disturbed. The result has been a project that's probably going to spiral out of all cost control and is already going to cost the new utility about €1.5 billion (almost US$2 billion).
4) Because no water metering was in place, leaks underground need to be repaired. Irish Water's agreed to do a 'first leak repair' for home owners. So, that could cost any amount of money really as nobody knows what they're going to unearth as the months go on. If you've subsequent leaks after that, you've got to repair them at your own cost or pay per L for the any water lost.

So, basically this 'ambitious' (I use that term for comic value) project could end up costing us billions because we're being forced to implement an environmental directive by blackmail pretty much by adding it as a rider to the terms and conditions of a bailout for the banking sector!?!

Not only that, but it's created so much political hot water (pardon the pun) that I suspect it could even bring the government down before the end of its term.

Irish Water produced proposed costs per L which would make Ireland's domestic water amongst the most expensive in the world.

€4.88 (6.32 US$) per cubic metre (1000L / 264 US gallons)

....

I'm in favour of environmental protections and incentives to reduce, but this is really bordering on just gouging us for tax revenue.

Then there's also the risk that this new state-owned utility company may just get sold off to some European commercial company.

I'm actually starting to suspect that the EU was heavily lobbied by water utilities to force this through.

...

This month we get a registration pack where we're supposed to provide the PPSN (Personal Public Service) (like social security number) of every person living in the house to ensure we get our 'water allowances' which is the free usage allowances.
I suspect a huge number of these will be not filled in and never returned.

I wouldn't have minded paying a flat fee for water usage, or even a reasonable water charge on a metered basis where meters were introduced bit by bit as new plumbing went in, but this whole setup is just absolutely crazy.

I have no idea why it's being driven so hard or who is driving it because the politicians all know they'll be voted out of office in 2016 over it, if the Government doesn't cave in or collapse entirely before then.

Opinion polling with 76% of the population saying the water charges are unfair and strong rises for parties with 'Euro critical' (not quite Euro sceptic) stances, particularly Sinn Fein as a result of it.

I think the EU needs to be damn careful at the moment, they're pushing too far into areas of domestic policy and far too aggressively and it could just end up causing a major backlash and rise of all sorts of anti-EU parties on the left and right that will derail all the good aspects of the EU as well as the more annoying ones like this.

 

[jetcone]

James

thats very interesting and it outlines perfectly whats going on over here. We home owners have no big lobby so its easy to victimize us and say"Well you elected me and I am doing my job by getting things done!" What things, for whom I ask??

 

 

That metering thing in a country as old as Ireland is just stupid !! A flat rate across the country would be more than enough to cover new water development. Case in point here water has always been metered and every 40 years or so big repairs replacements take place but they have the money to do that so we have a system that has been upgraded about 3-5 times since it was built from colonial times. To try and do that in Ireland from the get go will be an unbelievable mess - Case in point:

Even though the Boston ( MWRA- Massachusetts Water Resources Authority) have been working on our systems since the time only 2 people lived in Boston there are still sections original they keep finding !

Right in front of my house 5 years ago they started and completed a massive refit of high pressure trunk lines under the road. Using high tensile steel pipe- they found in front of my house a section of WOOD - YES WOOD pipe from the Colonial Era !! Still working ! I had been drinking water out of it for 15 years !!

The section was carefully removed and now sits in some museum I hear !! 

Just think of what they are going to find under the streets of Ireland !!!

 

 

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Oh my gosh, how could I have missed this thread???? Very interesting stuff.
I agree with many things expressed by  Washman and others.... and disagree with the usual ones....
iej also,  you have cleared a few things, and made  a few valid point of  EU  and what   it is meaning for  Ireland..and could complete  and reply to your speech with my views and tell you  about alot of other indecencies EU means and brings for  spain, Italy, France and others who are not German "cousins" or "friends"... we already know the tale...
I wish 5 stars movement wins at next elections here so Italy can make this damn referendum and say goodbye to EU!

Anyway....

Ya'll already know my views about the eco bullshit-fascism..widely expressed before in this website and they  applies here also, and could see others already perfectly pointed out many concepts of the matter with which I agree also.
And someone really got to learn how things are really in Europe! Not the fairy tales they tell you!

Anyway....
For what concerns the very matter of the vacuum cleaners... well, it's not just them, and  it all came by the manufacturers, it's them who actually  used the wattage selling strategy...
Ignorant/naive consumers did the rest...
In this case yes, it's one of cases we can actually speak of  efficiency and waste...

Wattage was initially equated to power, and there was a time when things were done virtuosly... different wattages meant actually different powers you got.
Especially on vacuum cleaners, he wattage always had a synonim of power over here... just think....we had vacuum cleaners like the philps that on  the speed selectors  had watts as marks to refer the power and speed....we had no numbers or the growing line marks like, they just put the watts....
But with the time, the watts = power  thing applied to many other small appliances, and then,  that simply gone out of control, and you had stuff  purposedly made to absorbe more energy than what they needed  to do the exact same job, this  just to  figure out as more powerful  and become more appetible for the consumers, so  just to give the idea of something that was more powerful than another, we have seen it done  with hair dryers, coffee makers, toasters, irons, hand mixers etc... in Europe...but not only...
I have said thousands times here that I  have never explained  (actually I did) myself the way, vintage vacuum cleaners could do just as good while using 2 or 3 or more  times less the power newer does, my vintage CGE is an example, 450 watts usage and sucks up just the way our old 1100 wats Bosch optima 55 did, and compared to the previous 2000watts philips it does a wonderful job comparing the 2 different wattages and jobs, if the CGE pulled 2000 watts then what I'd have had a Jet???  And the CGE  is alot  quieter too, never heard a quieter vacuum,  speaking of  the rest,  the wattage thing applies to lots of small appliances, steam irons are another example...  vintage,  both american  and european,  steam irons  heats up just the same way or faster   (and actually the VTG ones gets hotter than the newer, and that's why I like them ) than modern 2000 or more watts  does, this by pulling "only"  800 watts to 1000 , and no, it's not that the vintage ones by pulling less they takes more time to heat, I can tell you that they takes just the same time if not even less, by using step up converters to convert 220 for my 120 volt  GE's, Sunbeam and proctor steam irons I am able to hear when element cycles on and off, as it proudce a very light buzz when operating because of the converter, and can confirm  you here  they  don't take more time than my 2200 watts  newer irons.

So....
My vintage Girmi  toaster/grill  I recently acquired just the same speech of steam irons.....

Uh and how can I forget  the fryers,  My vintage Sunbeam  pulls 1650 watts.... and i never had a problem of a breading coming off because of lard taking a lot to re-heat, like indeed it always happened with the tefal one that pulled 2000 watts and was smaller,  it could hold the  half of  the oil/food the sunbeam does!
Mixers and blenders...just the same...
So IMO as someone else also pointed out...
This was all to sell...sadly, that's the truth..
Anyways....

I am happy this  thing  has been brought to light as in this case it is real waste, not  the waste they suppose it is like for the rest ....forcing you to be happy with stuff that just doesn't work as well as the others...but in this case it's diffrent, and  that's a swindle-like thing..this was done on purpose....
Fascism though is fascim , and mandating/regulate this, is always fascism in this case also,  but there had to be done something..

Regulate the way they are doing is liberty limiting and anti-democratical, fascist infact...though  instead of  this why not  starting a champaign  like: "how many watts do your appliances actually need" pointing out, showing with facts and  substantially educate the consumers that their  small appliances could  actually use less power, and  so that wattage doesn't automatically and always mean more power out of it, I think this would actually set consumers on the seek for the lowest wattage usage rather than otherwise, this would  actually kill the wrong idea of "highest wattage  synonim of more  powerful"  ...no?   Nobody likes to waste....
But let people decide if it's actually so ...... if it is so,  tree huggers and politicians will have nothing to worry about......this will come by itself...

[this post was last edited: 9/27/2014-20:31]

 

[ovrphil]

Conservation and Jobs

It's about businesses seeing an increasing cyclical spasms of climate becoming destabilizing hiccups in their profit growth models. So as the EU mandates limitations on vacuum motor wattage, the many jobless or under-employed will find no use for a 1600 or less watt vacuum, let alone hope to buy, for instance, a new Electrolux household appliance. This isn't a thread about the social-economical status that soberly plagues some European countries, but it's hard not to ask, "what will a cleaner, less fossil-fuel dependent world mean to a world population that is unable to have access to enjoying it?"

Compared to some here, who have reported water/lighting savings with more efficient appliances and lighting sources(led vs. CFL and the standard tungsten), I haven't seen it in my water or electric bill. While it may be collectively helping to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels, it would be nice to receive a greater monetary savings for implementing a greener house, car, and overall environment. And, that's not in the form of a once-only tax benefit if I bought a dual-fuel, electric car or a rebate for some appliance, but in the form of real yearly reductions to my lighting, water, and gas costs. It's not going to happen, because businesses are charging fees in lieu of decreased useage; our California friends are penalized for not using enough water. Fees are tacked on if they don't use enough water(Redondo Beach). So it goes.

Vacuums limited to 1600 watts? I'd put a Hemi in it and let it rip.

Phil.

 

[foraloysius]

Freddy

Apparently you have forgotten the real meaning of fascism. You being from Italy makes it flabbergasting. Just for you here is the definition of the word again:

Fascism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kenmoreguy89]

No....I haven't forgotten anything.....dear Luis.... and I think I know much more of you also about fascism, especially italian.

You could have kept for yourself your page that I don't need, and please try to be a bit more elastic, and don't think of it  just according to the letteral meaning, so the Nationalistic driven politic  it was, but what it meant in practice... and how it took place.
Nationalistic authoritarian politics have little to do with the eco driven politic,  though  eco politics  are taking place in a very similar way.....so in the way they're applied. Hence eco-fasicts.
My paternal side granpparents were both part of the resistance, they were partisans,  it's them who have had a gun pointed on the front several times by the black shirts to defend the freedom,  It's my granpa who later (when Mussonlini started partnering whith Hitler, Nazi-fascist era) was taken as an hostage and put in Jail in Germany, and forced labour in Potato fields, mowing ground with pure human force like animals, feeding himself just with the potatoes skins he could find (infact he almost died for starvation),  I think I know something more Louis as I love to hear stories about that era from old People.... and I think I know something more than what they teach you on the books.

The way they're doing   with these eco-regulations is similar by all means to the way they did things  during the  fascism, perhaps you don't know that during fascism,  you were told what to buy,  what to eat, and that  only the  stuff that was approved by the Dux was okay to be sold,  folk had no voice in this, decisions were taken according to what the Dux and bunch of others believed, not according to what the people believed and or  wanted in a democratical way, same way happened with socialism/communism, and that's why I don't consider the two different in their nature.

See for example the Autarchy, and  the battle of the wheat and what that meant for bulls and cows breeder, as for the same human diet and costs of food....
What happened during fascism  is similar to what they're doing with these eco theories.....banning or limiting and regulating certain things upon what's a mere personal belief... not objective, undemocratically....forcing people to go with stuff that the Govs believe to be good even though isn't so for all.
You would say "you elected them"? NO!  I didn't elect them to do this! I don't believe they have the power or the right to do this in the way they're doing!

If you don't want me to use the word Fascism as synonim of Dictatorship, then I will use the word dictatorship, because what they're doing is dictating  how much an appliance has to consume, limiting liberty,   and whatever doesn't stays within certain   limits they put  is "wasting", this alwasy according to them,... and all this is done in a dictatorship-like way... rather than making it a free choice.....
To my point of view that is no different of what the Dux did.

Most of these regulations are coming from the EU, the same EU who  is telling us what to do in our own home, like where we should buy our milk , weath, what police forces we should have (see abolition of Carabinieri for the European gendarmerie) etc...
We don't want that! Nobody asked for that!

I am really looking forward to a referendum!

[this post was last edited: 9/28/2014-07:24]

 

[foraloysius]

Well, in honor of your grandparents then, please don't use the word fascism for anything minor as regulations for vacuums. There is still enough real fascism in the world to be fought.

That said, I saw a video from the IFA2014 today in which the Dutch consumer organisation welcomes the new rules. The new label is not only for energy use, but also for forcing the manufacturers to make better vacuums. They called it a kick in the butt for the manufacturers. Manufacturers have been very busy with innovating vacuums.

Things that are better on the new vacuums are:

- Better nozzles;

- Better sealing, closing leaks that older models had so less false air is sucked in;

- New bags, that filter better but also let the air through better.

Also some of the newer models make less noise. The label also gives ratings for performance on carpets and performance on hard floors. Less wattage, but better performance, I say this is a win-win situation. Don't understand why anyone could be against a better product.

BTW, here is the video. It's in Dutch, but you can see in the pictures some examples of the improvements.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Louis I have never said I am against this, i am glad the matter has been brought to light..... and it's espcially for vacuums!
And if it is just a labeling matter...that would be fantastic....as people could decide if they can trust it, or not..... i've seen I usually cannot....but who knows...
Though I am afraid it is not so, they will limit power absorbition along,  and that's infact potentially  limiting...but more than else,  and in all honesty as  I said I have seen that I  usually cannot trust  the EU  labellings.

 As I have seen  it  done with washing machines and dishwashers, the labelling doesn't meet always with the truth, speaking of front loaders I can perfectly see  how the Sangiorgio we have where I work was rated A for washing as well as  A plus  for energy label... and sister's boyfriend new beko as well.... my Bosch dishwsher...and mnay other things...
Well, the washing  results they gives are not at all A, like pretty much do many of the new front loaders which results are much less good than the older ones, that while using more water and more energy gave  also "better" results...thing that doesn't figure out in this labelling actually, rather the opposite!
OTOH I see how machines with some  lower vote on energy label and washing label, also to me  actually seems  giving a better results of the others rated higher....though of course not comparable to a vintage ones...they just don't make them the "old good way" anymore....I mean, would you compare a wash of an early constructa to the average of the newers? I personally wouldn't/cannot...

So I have seen I really cannot trust them! And so realized many people.

I am afraid it will happen the same with vacuum cleaners.... though here is just matter to measure suction and  electricity used, which is a thing that has not many variants...difficult to cheat on it or have different views/findings about...it's rather objective, even because as I said it was done purposedly...

In any ways I am against the mandation ideas.
I'd prefer things to take place differently....and give to the people the final verdict,  make it a people's driven thing and give the freedom to choose and see and eventually come back if not satisfied...not just impose things this way .... i think that if someone impose something like this,  is because they've something to worry about,  and just are not transparent in their intentions.....
Infact that's what I have seen happening with most of things during the time....and don't want to see it repeating with the rest.

Not to mention, I don't understand/accept  the governemnts fury toward these aspects in principle, covered as enviroinmentalism or energy conservationism, while nobody or very few actually cared and  cares to invest money, efforts  on alrernative energy fuels and  and  so ways to make energy and actually go "greeener"....they choosed the easier way at the expense of us simple citizens to keep them and others in the traditional fuels lobbies, made lot of money on us and still do.. and now ask us to scarifice with crappy appliances?
We'd already have hydrogen cars, and lots of renewable source's energy from years  if it weren't for these greedy pigs.....the same pigs who still now are not doing anything really to "save the planet"... but everything to save their "wallets" making even more money than before over us....  this is not acceptable to me...and I will not lie down  or change my way to live for  their will.

I don't believe in what they're doing, and how they're doing it all.

 

[this post was last edited: 9/28/2014-12:21]