Euro Air-travel Disrupted by Iceland Volcano.

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And What If They Arnt???

Would be very surprised if at this point if they where found to be lying!! but again history....

I`m sure they didnt fly through the same zone, altitude, ash cloud, time zone!!! and an F16 jet engine is rather smaller than a 747...

Compare eggs to eggs if you need to but dont assume lying!!!

Now will the person with all the answers please step forward!!!
 
chestermikeuk ,

Since you want to compare eggs with eggs, well, it is worth noting that those trial flights of the commercial carriers were all done at low altitude and low speeds and in known-clear corridors.
The military flights, at least here in Central Europe must be over 8,000 meters. That is much closer to the air corridors the passenger jets would have to resume using if they were to return to normal flight patterns. It is enormously expensive and legally difficult to have 22,000 plus flights/day running at 3,000 Meters here in non-UK Europe.

What, please, is your basis for assuming the size of the jet engine plays a role in its ability to withstand damage? I should have thought the damage to those RollsRoyce engines in '82 and '89 (the best built) would be sufficient proof that that engine type clearly is vulnerable.

Is your faith in the Airline industry based on any real knowledge?
 
Exactley My Point!!!

They wern`t conducting the same tests at the same time, with the same outcomes...very different outcomes, being reported, but you assume & report that one is lying!!!

Nowthen the data might be more conclusive if they flew multiple test planes both military and commercial through the ash clouds at the same time (with safety distance)etc... As I say, will the person with all the answers step please forward....
 
I say they are lying

because:
1) The military tests are the most recent and the airline executives knew of them before they made their outrageous statements.
2) They can't fly the commercial airliners at the normal height in the normal corridors because the pilots (and I daresay they do have a bit of an idea, rather) refuse to risk it.

Look - maybe you haven't noticed, but I fly back and forth to the US at least four times a year, to and through the UK frequently and am totally, absolutely dependent on safe, economical and reliable air-transport for my family's health and well-being. If it were up to me, I'd have long since thrown a virgin or three down the volcano in the hope this would be settled.

Just, let's not pretend the airlines are somehow not lying when they know the facts and are still pretending otherwise.
 
Well, You Pays Your Money and You Takes Your Chances

As of Monday morning flights have resumed to parts of southern France, Ireland and other parts of the EU.

According to this published report at least, airline pilots are "begging" to get back into cockpits and start things moving again.

My take on this is that sooner or later, EU and possibly airlines of other nations are going to start seeking funds from EU officals to compenstate for losses the longer they keep the ban in place. If this volcano goes on like it has for months, (which as been discussed as a very real possibility), will the EU officals keep everything shut down until then?

On both sides of the pond airlines weren't in the best financial shape to begin with before this thing het, and the losses are mounting, not to mention ill will. There is also the fact many persons face serious employment, financial, and other personal problems the longer they are delayed in returning home.

Airlines have cut quite allot of capacity out of the system, including retiring many large jumbo jets such as the 747. Even where such planes are in the system, or even the huge new Airbus, they may be booked on outer routes having nothing to do with trans-atlantic travel. Rejigging things will be a nightmare, and that is for the planes that can be used. Mothballed planes cannot be easily recalled, so airlines are going to have to make due with much of what they have.

 
Laundress,

So true.
I firmly believe we should bail out the airlines - but that the bailout should be paid back with a minor customer surcharge over the next years.
At prime + 1%.

That said, this is a tremendous opportunity for us to finally grasp on an infrastructure sector which can easily be ramped up, would create jobs on both sides of the Atlantic, would circumvent the Chinese (yay!), reduce the CO² problem enormously:
Bring back the dirigibles.
With today's technology, no problem.

Speaking a someone who flys a lot, it now takes me longer to get from Munich to Denver than 24 hours. Realistically. The era of fast, rapid flight is gone - it is not the airtime which is eating up the hours, it is the whole horror trip of the airport, security, luggage, customs in the US (Europeans do more detailed security and customs checks than the Americans do and can process an entire plane in 1/3 the time the Americans need.

This is an opportunity, we need to seize it!

Oh, read just now that NYC is losing something like 250 million $ every week because of this?

 
First planes from Amsterdam will takeoff in one hour (18:00 UT). One for New York, one for Dubai and one for Shanghai
 
False alarm

The reports the Americans are getting that a second volcano just cut loose on Iceland are false - the video link was mislabled.
It is, unfortunately, still true that the first one is still roaring away...
 
Man proposes...gods dispose...virgins?

I would think the tea-baggers should like the EU.
We now, finally, have guidelines - which nobody is following.
They basically would make the UK (except for a few Scottish islands) a totally no-fly zone, Germany an emergency only and Madrid a fly-if-you-feel-like it.
Really clear and timely, that's the EU.

The UK have apparently continued their tests and the results are continuing to be split: Military and government sponsored tests all show damage, commercial airline$ all show everything coming up roses...or was that pushing up daisies. You can't sue airlines in Europe for millions like in the US so their losses are calculatingly, er, make that capable of pre-determination. May the heavens forbid I ca$t a$per$ion$ on these honorable people who wouldn't dream of making a profit at our ri$k.

Germany is permitting visible path flight only, as are The Netherlands and several other countries. The Italians and Spanish are doing their best but don't have the infrastructure to quickly get arriving passengers from here to there.

And on, and on, and on.

Meanwhile, another eruption (a real one, this time) means a new ash cloud is headed our way. My local radio program counsels us not to wipe the gritty ash off of our cars and optical instruments but to "flush" it off with plenty of water and a biologically degradable detergent.

I think it's time to go looking for some virgins - and we should apply the old Salem solution: Throw them in, if it stops great, if not, well, try try again. Let's start with the airline executive$ who in$i$t all re$triction$ be lifted.
 
Why don't people just car pool?

Everything in Europe is within driving distance and they do have a pretty good highway system. I would just hire a car and enjoy the drive.
 
Well that is true but...

The persons stranded by this event are mainly tourists or other travelers, and thus either do not own cars, or their cars are at home, which could be anyplace, but certainly not at the local airport.

Rental car capacity never could begin to accomodate the amount of persons needing cars. Also it is not inexpensive, read one account of a man stuck in LA taking a plane to Mexico, then Spain then will drive to some northern EU country home. The cost of the rental car is 2K euros, excluding petrol, which is VERY dear in EU.

However yes, by and large many persons merely stuck within the EU and some within the UK are taking trains, ferry service, motor coaches, cars and trains to get where they need to be. The largest problem however remains persons stuck on either side of the pond with no way to get across the Atlantic.

Again with ocean liner service killed off ages ago, everyone and thing mainly goes via air, one that route is cut off for whatever reason, we have the situation we see today.
 
Olav

I think your concept of distances in Europe is, perhaps, just a teeny, tiny bit inaccurate.

I frequently hold seminars in Berlin, at least, I used to before my family situation forced me to limit my business activities enormously.

I could drive, this took at least six hours at speeds approaching 160kmh...in the middle of the night...or, closer to 10 hours at realistic speeds. I did, once, actually do the drive at over 100mph average...on a Sunday evening...on a bank holiday.

I could take a train. This is an all day or late evening to mid-morning activity. Lots of fun and four times as expensive than flying, if we count the private sleeping car, three times as expensive if we count sharing a sleeping car with two other people or nearly three times as expensive if I were to go second class...not counting three meals.

Or, for less than the cost of the petrol, I could fly. Counting the time to get from my apartment to the next airport, security , boarding (we haven't had to go through check-in here domestic flights in over a decade), flying, debarking and getting to my seminar at Alexandarplatz...not quite two hours...maximum...with mid-day Berlin and Munich traffic counted it. Done it over thirty times, so not exaggerating.

So, let's see - less than €100 round trip and two hours maximum travel time each way...more than €400 by train...about €150-200 Euros by car.

And that is the problem. Our distances are far greater than just looking at a map might suggest and we travel a great deal more than the rest of the world - which still thinks of us as all living in quaint villages and never venturing forth past the local pub (I wish) might believe.

This is a major problem. We have to find another solution as there is no way our planet can continue to support the enormous amount of carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere every day.
 
rapunzel

I do apologize if that was too harsh - I didn't mean it to sound that way. One of my dearest friends is in the air right this minute, returning from the US and I am very much worried about her.
 
Thanks for the offer, Keven.

Their first flight that they could get rebooked on is for Friday. So it looks like the vacation goes on (& on & on & on).
 
Well, my friend's

flight was cancelled and they are locking down Norway, again.

There are 250,000 Germans known to be stuck abroad.

They're opening the Munich Airport from 11.00 pm to 2.30 in the morning for a few flights then closing it again completely.

So what are the cabins like on the Andrea Dorea and the Titanic?
 

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