Euro Air-travel Disrupted by Iceland Volcano.

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Actually, it does

Most people here believe that the real reason the Polish plane crashed is because the PM made the pilot land.
He was a nasty piece of work, a real tin-pot dictator and had a reputation for doing that quite often.

We have pictures of the crash, the funerals, the ceremonies on the front pages of our boulevard press every day, right below the volcano. I do think this plays a role in the psychology of things here - I know Russia nd Europe seem inconsequential to day to day life when I'm in the USA, here, though, we fly much more (flights are cheaper, security is both better and friendlier than in the US) and this has a direct connection for many.

Those test flights don't mean anything as Laundress so very well pointed out - and the head of AirBerlin should be fired for his disregard for human safety.

Yes, we passengers will have to pay more for this over the next years. OK, I can live with that. Set up a pool, save the airlines from dying then set up a time limited surcharge to pay it back.

There is a fine layer of gritty dusty on everything here this morning, I believe those tests like I believe anything a politician $ays.
 
Testing

Well, the business colleagues managed to get another 36 like minded stranded travellers signed up in Zurich at the hotel and hired a coach which left Zurich Saturday evening and arrived in London Sunday morning, at least they are the lucky ones but had to use own initiative to get things sorted....

Its going to be a long time before everything is A okay again...saying that BA took a test flight yesterday and the person on board was non other the the CEO Willie Walsh, that says a lot about trying to find out a solution to the problem, although I bet the insurance company where sweating on the results!!!

http://thedogsinthestreet.net/2010/...t-with-chief-executive-willie-walsh-on-board/
 
Latest news here is that our minister of traffic affairs is getting nervous, he wants to open the airspace as soon as possible. Besides gliders and balloons, helicopters are now also permitted to take off.

A Dutch plane has just been flown from Amsterdam to Paris without passengers.

A radio reporter based in Paris was stranded in the Netherlands and took the high speed train to Paris. He was very surprised to see that there were only four passengers in the car during the journey...
 
My oldest brother took his oldest son, who is graduating high school this year, on a "bonding" trip to Europe during his spring break. They were flying into England and then going to Amsterdam, Belgium and back. THEY'RE STILL THERE! Now they've seen France, EuroDisney, and much more that they didn't expect to see. It sounds like it's getting old. They are both so ready to get home. His wife just had to wire money yesterday because his funds are about gone. I think it cost him something like $800 each to get back to England on the train since it was packed with stranded travelers trying to get elsewhere. They got a hotel room near Heathrow, but can only stay 2 days and they need to move to another one because of other bookings. It sounds like a nightmare. I am sure that this is a trip he & his son will never forget. I can't wait to talk to them when they get home & hear the whole story.
 
I saw on the news last night that one can book a flight from Europe back to the USA... but it costs around $10,000 a seat. LOL.

The good news is that the Icelanders say that their most recent flights over the volcano show a red glow. This means that the ice melt may be slacking off. The water from the melt is the primary cause of the ash eruption. Once the ice has melted and the water is gone, then the volcano will switch to lava flows which obviously don't threaten air traffic.
 
Latest news from Netherlands:

First ash particles are expected to land on Dutch soil tomorrow;

Dutch minister of traffic affairs wants to resume flights tomorrow;

Transport priority will be given to the dozens of corpses that have accumulated in the mortuary of Schiphol airport...
 
Two very interesting and mutually exclusive reports. One is

Guess who:
(excerpted from link):

Separately, senior Western diplomat said several NATO F-16 fighters suffered engine damage after flying through the volcanic ash cloud covering large parts of Europe. The official declined to provide more details on the military flights, except to say that glasslike deposits were found inside the planes' engines after they patroled over European air space.

Over the weekend, several major airlines successfully tested the skies with flights that did not carry passengers. The announcement of successful test flights prompted some airline officials to wonder whether authorities had overreacted to concerns that the microscopic particles of volcanic ash could cause jet engines to fail.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36637380
 
And What If They Arnt???

Would be very surprised if at this point if they where found to be lying!! but again history....

I`m sure they didnt fly through the same zone, altitude, ash cloud, time zone!!! and an F16 jet engine is rather smaller than a 747...

Compare eggs to eggs if you need to but dont assume lying!!!

Now will the person with all the answers please step forward!!!
 
chestermikeuk ,

Since you want to compare eggs with eggs, well, it is worth noting that those trial flights of the commercial carriers were all done at low altitude and low speeds and in known-clear corridors.
The military flights, at least here in Central Europe must be over 8,000 meters. That is much closer to the air corridors the passenger jets would have to resume using if they were to return to normal flight patterns. It is enormously expensive and legally difficult to have 22,000 plus flights/day running at 3,000 Meters here in non-UK Europe.

What, please, is your basis for assuming the size of the jet engine plays a role in its ability to withstand damage? I should have thought the damage to those RollsRoyce engines in '82 and '89 (the best built) would be sufficient proof that that engine type clearly is vulnerable.

Is your faith in the Airline industry based on any real knowledge?
 
Exactley My Point!!!

They wern`t conducting the same tests at the same time, with the same outcomes...very different outcomes, being reported, but you assume & report that one is lying!!!

Nowthen the data might be more conclusive if they flew multiple test planes both military and commercial through the ash clouds at the same time (with safety distance)etc... As I say, will the person with all the answers step please forward....
 
I say they are lying

because:
1) The military tests are the most recent and the airline executives knew of them before they made their outrageous statements.
2) They can't fly the commercial airliners at the normal height in the normal corridors because the pilots (and I daresay they do have a bit of an idea, rather) refuse to risk it.

Look - maybe you haven't noticed, but I fly back and forth to the US at least four times a year, to and through the UK frequently and am totally, absolutely dependent on safe, economical and reliable air-transport for my family's health and well-being. If it were up to me, I'd have long since thrown a virgin or three down the volcano in the hope this would be settled.

Just, let's not pretend the airlines are somehow not lying when they know the facts and are still pretending otherwise.
 
Well, You Pays Your Money and You Takes Your Chances

As of Monday morning flights have resumed to parts of southern France, Ireland and other parts of the EU.

According to this published report at least, airline pilots are "begging" to get back into cockpits and start things moving again.

My take on this is that sooner or later, EU and possibly airlines of other nations are going to start seeking funds from EU officals to compenstate for losses the longer they keep the ban in place. If this volcano goes on like it has for months, (which as been discussed as a very real possibility), will the EU officals keep everything shut down until then?

On both sides of the pond airlines weren't in the best financial shape to begin with before this thing het, and the losses are mounting, not to mention ill will. There is also the fact many persons face serious employment, financial, and other personal problems the longer they are delayed in returning home.

Airlines have cut quite allot of capacity out of the system, including retiring many large jumbo jets such as the 747. Even where such planes are in the system, or even the huge new Airbus, they may be booked on outer routes having nothing to do with trans-atlantic travel. Rejigging things will be a nightmare, and that is for the planes that can be used. Mothballed planes cannot be easily recalled, so airlines are going to have to make due with much of what they have.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ts_as_volcanic_ash_cloud_begins_to_clear.html
 
Laundress,

So true.
I firmly believe we should bail out the airlines - but that the bailout should be paid back with a minor customer surcharge over the next years.
At prime + 1%.

That said, this is a tremendous opportunity for us to finally grasp on an infrastructure sector which can easily be ramped up, would create jobs on both sides of the Atlantic, would circumvent the Chinese (yay!), reduce the CO² problem enormously:
Bring back the dirigibles.
With today's technology, no problem.

Speaking a someone who flys a lot, it now takes me longer to get from Munich to Denver than 24 hours. Realistically. The era of fast, rapid flight is gone - it is not the airtime which is eating up the hours, it is the whole horror trip of the airport, security, luggage, customs in the US (Europeans do more detailed security and customs checks than the Americans do and can process an entire plane in 1/3 the time the Americans need.

This is an opportunity, we need to seize it!

Oh, read just now that NYC is losing something like 250 million $ every week because of this?

http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/#
 
First planes from Amsterdam will takeoff in one hour (18:00 UT). One for New York, one for Dubai and one for Shanghai
 
False alarm

The reports the Americans are getting that a second volcano just cut loose on Iceland are false - the video link was mislabled.
It is, unfortunately, still true that the first one is still roaring away...
 
Man proposes...gods dispose...virgins?

I would think the tea-baggers should like the EU.
We now, finally, have guidelines - which nobody is following.
They basically would make the UK (except for a few Scottish islands) a totally no-fly zone, Germany an emergency only and Madrid a fly-if-you-feel-like it.
Really clear and timely, that's the EU.

The UK have apparently continued their tests and the results are continuing to be split: Military and government sponsored tests all show damage, commercial airline$ all show everything coming up roses...or was that pushing up daisies. You can't sue airlines in Europe for millions like in the US so their losses are calculatingly, er, make that capable of pre-determination. May the heavens forbid I ca$t a$per$ion$ on these honorable people who wouldn't dream of making a profit at our ri$k.

Germany is permitting visible path flight only, as are The Netherlands and several other countries. The Italians and Spanish are doing their best but don't have the infrastructure to quickly get arriving passengers from here to there.

And on, and on, and on.

Meanwhile, another eruption (a real one, this time) means a new ash cloud is headed our way. My local radio program counsels us not to wipe the gritty ash off of our cars and optical instruments but to "flush" it off with plenty of water and a biologically degradable detergent.

I think it's time to go looking for some virgins - and we should apply the old Salem solution: Throw them in, if it stops great, if not, well, try try again. Let's start with the airline executive$ who in$i$t all re$triction$ be lifted.
 
Why don't people just car pool?

Everything in Europe is within driving distance and they do have a pretty good highway system. I would just hire a car and enjoy the drive.
 
Well that is true but...

The persons stranded by this event are mainly tourists or other travelers, and thus either do not own cars, or their cars are at home, which could be anyplace, but certainly not at the local airport.

Rental car capacity never could begin to accomodate the amount of persons needing cars. Also it is not inexpensive, read one account of a man stuck in LA taking a plane to Mexico, then Spain then will drive to some northern EU country home. The cost of the rental car is 2K euros, excluding petrol, which is VERY dear in EU.

However yes, by and large many persons merely stuck within the EU and some within the UK are taking trains, ferry service, motor coaches, cars and trains to get where they need to be. The largest problem however remains persons stuck on either side of the pond with no way to get across the Atlantic.

Again with ocean liner service killed off ages ago, everyone and thing mainly goes via air, one that route is cut off for whatever reason, we have the situation we see today.
 
Olav

I think your concept of distances in Europe is, perhaps, just a teeny, tiny bit inaccurate.

I frequently hold seminars in Berlin, at least, I used to before my family situation forced me to limit my business activities enormously.

I could drive, this took at least six hours at speeds approaching 160kmh...in the middle of the night...or, closer to 10 hours at realistic speeds. I did, once, actually do the drive at over 100mph average...on a Sunday evening...on a bank holiday.

I could take a train. This is an all day or late evening to mid-morning activity. Lots of fun and four times as expensive than flying, if we count the private sleeping car, three times as expensive if we count sharing a sleeping car with two other people or nearly three times as expensive if I were to go second class...not counting three meals.

Or, for less than the cost of the petrol, I could fly. Counting the time to get from my apartment to the next airport, security , boarding (we haven't had to go through check-in here domestic flights in over a decade), flying, debarking and getting to my seminar at Alexandarplatz...not quite two hours...maximum...with mid-day Berlin and Munich traffic counted it. Done it over thirty times, so not exaggerating.

So, let's see - less than €100 round trip and two hours maximum travel time each way...more than €400 by train...about €150-200 Euros by car.

And that is the problem. Our distances are far greater than just looking at a map might suggest and we travel a great deal more than the rest of the world - which still thinks of us as all living in quaint villages and never venturing forth past the local pub (I wish) might believe.

This is a major problem. We have to find another solution as there is no way our planet can continue to support the enormous amount of carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere every day.
 
rapunzel

I do apologize if that was too harsh - I didn't mean it to sound that way. One of my dearest friends is in the air right this minute, returning from the US and I am very much worried about her.
 
Thanks for the offer, Keven.

Their first flight that they could get rebooked on is for Friday. So it looks like the vacation goes on (& on & on & on).
 
Well, my friend's

flight was cancelled and they are locking down Norway, again.

There are 250,000 Germans known to be stuck abroad.

They're opening the Munich Airport from 11.00 pm to 2.30 in the morning for a few flights then closing it again completely.

So what are the cabins like on the Andrea Dorea and the Titanic?
 
We had rain last night and there were predictions that ash particles would land in the Netherlands. I saw nothing on the black surfaces that I inspected this morning. I had expected deposits like that of Sahara desert dust.

Despite the considerable amounts of Sahara dust that we sometimes see here, our airports have never been closed for that reason.
 

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