Euro wash times vs. US wash times...

[favorit]

Johnny - hot fill and "washing time warranty"

Hi Johnny, about miele's hot fill Brisnat said it right.

In older machines it was difficult to have long washing times @ low temps. So many brands solved that with an ECO button to extend washing time.

Miele had another solution : the "washing time warranty"
Unless "short" option is selected, the machine runs a warm wash in the same time of a boilwash, as many other brands do too nowadays.

On my old timer controlled W480, this "warranty" works this way : when you choose 80°-95°C the timer skips some increments after heating. In the range cold--->70°C it stops at everyone

@ 40°C it takes 10 minutes less than the boilW ,@ 70°C it is a little longer than @ 95°C

When "short" is selected it works in the old way (every temp is routed into the timer in the same way), so heating time + 15 mins

In the Novotronics and Softronics the "warranty" makes a trade-off with the load sensor on the motor (smaller loads = shorter times)

Carlo

 

[favorit]

Hot & cold fill Zanussi Electrolux in EU ?

Haven't found the Sunny h&c fill w. elsewhere than on rex.it It's very strange, cause the IronAid dryer came out everywhere in EU at the same time.

 

[newwave1]

I've just connected my new Bosch WFF2000 to hot And cold. It does help when using shorter programmes.

Darren

 

[launderess]

Space in French Kitchens?

Pipe:

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[paulinroyton]

Wash Times

My Hotpoint Aqualtis AQXXF 149pm takes,

Whites, 2.23hrs, 60c
Coloureds 1.35hrs, 40c
Synthetics 1.10hrs, 40c
Fast Wash 30mins, 30c
Synthetics 1.25hrs, 60c
Shirts 1.15hrs, 40c
Silks 53mins, 30c
Wool 55mins, 40c
Duvets 1.34hrs 30c
Bed & Bath 1.52hrs 60c

Its a great machine, but takes so long to wash, you do have the time saver, but does not cut out the lenght of time very much.

Paul

 

[yogitunes]

many people don't understand and a common problem...in my new house the BRAINIACS who did the plumbing put the hot water heater on the other side of the house away from the kitchen and bath/laundry....it takes a long time for the hot water to get there....with my front loader only using about 3 gallons, if I want a hot wash I have to run water in the tub until it gets hot, otherwise it fills cold and by the time it gets hot the machine is done filling...same thing for the dishdrawer...water cools in the pipes, so when the machine calls for a refill its getting a cold fill and dishes don't get clean....I'm gonna have this moved...

 

[laundromat]

From what I was told by folks I met in England during my '93 trip to London for the Shakesspearien Festival they have anualy in November,I asked why they had machines that had no bleach dispenser.One of them said "We would rather boil the 'racing stripes' off our undies than to use a caustic,poluting chemical to get them out.We are in no hurry on wash day to do our chore because during that cycle,we can go to market,vacuum our floors,beat our rugs,walk our pets and work out." We here in America are so god damned spoiled and want everything right now.I call that McStupid.I do my laundry once a week.I am currently using a Staber washer that is in for service.So far,I have replaced its presure switch,balance switch,presure hose,and the mother board.Now,due to the receded water that swishes around the outer tub during the spin,I found there is a missing clamp that holds the sump hose going to the pump in an even keal with the pump.Currently,it just hangs down like an old boob causing water to rest and not drain into the pump properly.However,it is a good performer and the average cycle takes just over a half hour with a wash and two rinses.Realitively easy to work on but,you have to be "dainty" while replacing the cheapasss,plastic parts.Otherwise,as in my case,they break and you have to reorder and wait for another.They will not allow you to stock up on parts.That's because the Staber customers are suposed to do their own repair.They have no dealers or service companies that are authorised to searve their customers.

 

[hoovermatic]

For what it's worth, I guess that after years of the housewife being tied to the kitchen sink minding her twin tub or wringer washer, the change to being able to bung the clothes in and walk away to take the kids to school, go shopping, do other chores or just sit and watch TV was a total revolution. Certainly here in the UK we went from labour intensive to labour free laundry and are so used to the long cycle times that we don't really know any different. I always have loads to be getting on with whilst the washing machine is on so the cycle times don't bother me. The only time I wish it could be quicker is when the weather is changeable and with imminent rain, a 2 hour wash cycle could make the difference between drying indoors or outdoors.

As for hot/cold fill, I have ALWAYS fitted a y-piece to all my washers to use cold water fill only. As has already been said, by the time the hot water pipes are purged of cold water, the machine has stopped taking on water and is into the cycle so to me, it is pretty pointless.

 

[ronhic]

The Blomberg we had in the UK would only take cold water in if set to 30c or below, mixed on 40c and 50c and hot only on 60c. Mind you, the ancient Vaillant boiler had to be run not only to purge the lines, but to get some water up to any form of 'warm' before you started the machine....even though the machine was only 2 metres away from it.....

 

[launderess]

Oh my Miele W1070, unless the temperature dial is set to "cold" which effectively turns off the thermostat, should the machine sense incoming wash water temperature is higher than the one set, it will stop adding hot and add cold water to get the proper balance.

Installation manual makes it clear the washer MUST be hooked up to hot and cold water (or cold only, but still both hoses must be used), and one assumes the above is one of the reasons. It certianly would prevent "boiling" water from a hot water heater from being "dumped" onto laundry. Well unless the thermostat was dialed off, then that is whomever is doing the washing's problem.

As for European washer (front loader) long cycle times, was reading a rather interesting post on one of the UK washer/appliance repair boards. Such sites are similar to our group here and THS. DIY is VERY popular in the UK as well, so there a lots of posts from persons looking on how to do their own appliance repairs as well.

Anyway, the author of said site gave an interesting view of why today's Euro/UK front loaders take so long to wash, even when set to cool or warm water. Answer? Though manufacturers have produced larger drum tubs, the machines all still suffer from energy rating madates an or desires to use less water. So you have a 6kg, 7kg or larger unit having to wash with the same or only a tiny bit more water than the new standard for a 5kg unit. Obviously it is going to take longer to get laundry saturated with water/detergent solution, even when doing "wet wipe" washing.

If one looks at how much water a commercial or laundromat grade washer uses for the same rated laundry capacity, it is more than what domestic washers are forced to struggle with.

The above may also tie into why so many consumers are reporting increased wear and damage to their washing when using newer front loaders. Laundry tumbling to and fro with very little water is bound to create increased friction as textiles rub up against each other.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~in my new house the BRAINIACS who did the plumbing put the hot water heater on the other side of the house away from the kitchen and bath/laundry....

There may be a reaon for it, but it may not yet be apparent to you!

This may have been to keep the gas or the oil lines short or they may have needed to use a flue associated with the chimney of the fireplace.

Regardless, one can always have a return-loop added from the furthest point of piping realtive to the hot water heater. Use a small pump to reintroduce the cooled hot water back into the hot water heater by fitting a "T" behind the drain valve.

In order to control the electric pump, use a mometary contact switch,an ordinay *COUGH* toggleswitch or a 5-minute electric timer. If you really wnat to get creative, use an ordinary circulator relay and have 24v class-2(low-votage) wiring at each point-of-water-use location.

Of course insulating your hot water pipes is a "green" thing to do, with or without a new circulating "return" loop.

Le voila. C'est fait!

 

[launderess]

European Wash Times Verus American

One thing to remember, and one has stated this before, detergents are tested and marketed under the conditions of whatever local market the product is destined to be sold.

American laundry detergents were designed for the rather short (eight to perhaps fifteen minutes) wash times of top loading washing machines, and the rather dilute detergent to water ratio. That meaning one cup or less (or more depending upon soil, stain and water hardess levels), diluted into ten to twenty or more gallons of wash water.

As top loading washing machines until rather recently all tended to use the rather aggressive central beater (in all manner and sort of form) action, detergents while strong, did not require very high concentration levels. Remember the four variables of good laundry practice. By increasing the mechanical action (and or also water temperature), along with perhaps adding additionals chemicals (chlorine bleach), you can have shorter wash cycles and a "weaker" detergent.

OTHO detergents designed for front loaders have to cope with cleaning, stain removal, soil suspension, water hardness based upon at most about only five gallons of water for a wash cycle (probably a bit less on modern washers), and the reduced mechancial action of tumble style washing machines. Because the wash action is more gentle, off the bat one of the variables of good laundry practice has changed,and the others must be altered to compensate.

Notice you've not seen American laundry detergents, even those designed for "HE" washers redesigned for "short wash times", whilst many European/UK versions have.

L.

 

[yogitunes]

Toggle...

I have been looking into the recirculation pump...but also been thinking about 2 hot water heaters to split the useage...I have 2 dishwashers, 3 high effic washers, and 3 full bathrooms, one with a jacuzzi, have never run out of hot water but sometimes to take the load off of only one...

builders just put all equipment for the house in one corner...eventually I will have them moved to under the stairs which will put them in the center of the house....I have the same issue with heat/AC....one side chills/heats rapidly but the other half barely gets any...I did try to consider why they put them where they did...and I could see if the lines coming in were on that side but actually they don't...they cross over the entire house...even the well is on the north side of the house and they ran the pipes under the basement floor to the other side...I think what confused them is my house was a reversed design and they didn't reverse the basement plans...but just the same it should have been put in the center....like washer manufacturers...they don't think of what makes sense!

 

[paulinroyton]

Wash Times

One thing with my hotpoint aqualtis aqxxf149pm, it has a delay start option, which I find so usefull. I time the machine so by 8am, or 9am my washing is done

Paul

 

[mrwash]

My Miele Navitronic needs 2H 36 Mins in the Hygiene cycle with the option "extra rinse" X-D

 

[ronhic]

Electrolux machines sold here are very similar to the versions sold in the UK, though ours tend to come from Thailand.

My Electrolux/Zanussi made Westinghouse is Italian made and has the following cycle times that I use regularly

Cotton 1200rpm spin
.........Normal......Quick
Cold.....1.44.........55
30c......1.51........1.01
40c......1.58........1.08 (wash component of Quick is about 40m @ 40c)
60c......2.00........1.15

Synthetic short 900rpm spin
Cold....................39
30c.....................45

There is also a Quick 30 programme I use often

30c....3kg....30m but it is let down by a 700rpm v.short spin

Additionally, whilst the machine is rated at 6.5kg (15lb), I run the quick cycles 80% of the time and with probably about a 4-4.5kg (9-10lb) load with great results.

 

[logixx]

Yep, our washer has the exact same cycle times as Chris' machine above. I use the Quick wash option all the time - with extra rinse.

Here are the cycle times for the UK version of the Duet washer. Look at the amazing SuperEco cycle - takes only five hours! But I really like how the washer adjusts to different amounts of laundry.

Full Programme Guide

 

[ronhic]

I gather that those cycle times for the Duet are substantially different to the equivalent cycle on those sold in the US...

 

[dj-gabriele]

Duet/Dreamspace

Italian wash times and cycles are different!
Anyway, whirlpool has the longest cycles I have ever seen!

http://www.whirlpool.it/app.cnt/whr/it_IT/pageid/pgproddtl001/catid/3/subcatid/11/prodid/28368

 

[launderess]

Five Hours?

You have got to be kidding!

If this is the best modern front loading washing machines have to offer, one will hold onto the Miele until it literally turns to dust.