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Ok guy's and garls, thought this was a friendly neighbou

but help what are you guys doing. We all know that we on this forum know 100 times more about washers, brands, and other applainces that this guy will ever do IN HIS LIFE! We studied all machines in different forms and different functions. We have testresults that tell us what crap there is on the market and what the good machines are. Never forget that these words are just put together to look pretty on a website or in a magazine!

What we must do:
STOP THE SILLY DISCUSSION ABOUT ARE FRONTLOADERS BETTER THAN TOPLOADERS, because the point is they are better at some points, but they aren't at others. This brings me to my second point. If we all want to save the planet... it's not about how expensive your washer is, it's how you use it! If people want to wash in a GE RAMPOMATIC (sorry can't find the right type, but you know the filterflotypes with HUGE baskets,...) and do full loads, maybe even save the rinse water. What's the big deal?
 
"they are machines designed to come in at a certian pri

And there's part of the problem with most of today's front loaders. I guess I'm a bit of a contrarian, as I want a heavy spin bearing and a stainles steel outer tub. I also want enough water to flush out the detergent on rinse, and a big motor to provide me with adequate drama and entertainment. I especially like the idea of a heavy suspension that can take what ever gets thrown at it. I think that would rule out most of what's available at the local Home Depot.

Everybody else? Well, they just want to wash cloths. So when theirs breaks down just slightly beyond the warranty, they'll go get another one. The typical U.S. consumer pays for the USE of the product, not the product its self. That's what the throwaway society is all about. Meanwhile, I am still looking for that Calypso that hasn't yet developed any issues or rusted beyond fixing. Some day, I maybe I'll get lucky.

NorfolkSouthern
 
neptunebob said

"I wonder why the British makers of front loaders did not try to sell their units in America. If maybe we had a good experience like you do with your machines, there would be plenty of them here by now"

as neptunebob said i second that although we are opting for a frontloader in the future here in my house they are slightly more repair prone as a group compared to what were used to as a whole, what is that you ask? a toploader!!! it just takes a good purchase on a reliable model and some education on how to use them PERIOD!
 
Top load vs front load

I tend to agree with posters who say this is just a never ending and no win argument, each style of machine has it's own particular benefits and drawbacks it is just a matter of doing some homework and deciding which would best suit your particular needs.
Personally, after my dreadful experience with the Bosch F.L., I am kind of turned off them,but that does not mean at some time in the future I would not consider owning another one,it just would not be a Bosch,at the moment I am really happy with my L.G. T.L.it does everything I expect and has not let me down.
Ronhic ,you make an excellent point about people learning how to use their machines properly to get the best out of them,however,I think most people just go by the theory of chuck the washing in the machine turn a knob or push a key and hey presto all done and they end up disappointed when the wash isn't up to the standard they expect when the real cause of the problem is their own inability to use the thing correctly or by incorrect loading.
The old stuff it all in for one single,quick load still holds sway I believe, indeed my neighbourhood friends don't believe that we don't stick 2-3 days worth of total washing in even though my machine has an 8.5kg capacity we still prefer to wash slightly smaller loads. the water isn't really a problem because the machine senses the weight of the load and adjusts the water level required automatically and if needed I can override by using the keyboard manually.
If I may digress a little I also looked at the tech's article on fridges just to see what he says about G.E.and I am a bit surprised that his views basically mirror the view that Peter,the service tech who fixed my G.E. S.B.S. twice earlier this year in as much as the cost of replacement parts are horrendously expensive and there are regular reliability issues with G.E.i.e.frequent service calls etc, although the tech in the article seems to be anti L.G. and Samsung, yet if one looks at Choice magazine,(our local consumer magazine.)L.G. and Samsung have very high approval ratings by those surveyed around the mid 90% the same as the local Westinghouse/Kelvinator.
Indeed Peter my tech actually went as far as to advise me when the time comes to discard the G.E.(hopefully not for quite a while though.)I should give serious consideration to purchasing a new L.G. fridge as performance wise they match it with any and they actually do keep quite a lot of spare parts for repairs and the spare parts are relatively inexpensive.
I think there is aslo a view in the community that because something is made in an Asian country that it is automatically inferior and will last 2 minutes,well speaking only from personal experience and use, they are not as bad as made out,for example Chinese made Haier T.T. is now 4 years old and going well,Korean made T.V.,7 years old and perfect,Korean made vacuum cleaner 9 years old and still working great,Korean made microwave oven,6 years old going great, but has now been given to a cousin who did not have one and been replaced by another Korean made model,working well,Korean made washing machine, only 18 months old but going quite well.
No offence intended ,but American made fridge/freezer serviced 3 times in one year and before that local Australian made fridge serviced 5 times in 1 year.
 
Listening is an attitude

I don't want to be rude and anyway I apologize about what I'm about to write, in case anyone could be offended by my words.

My guess is this forum is an amazing way to get in touch with different frames of mind.
Despite we're talking about plain things as the likes of washers, indeed we can share our different habits and cultures

This is possible only if we are able to listen to the others, otherwise we don't communicate but just produce (unlistedned) words.
Monologues have nothing to do communication.

Listening doesn't mean just hearing. IMHO we really listen to the others we we are able to "think in their clothes".
We really listen only if we leave aside our frame of mind and try to think as the other would do.

If I guess my thoughts are "the truth", there's no hope to listen to the others .....

So I don't want to be be too serious, enjoy this ....laundromat ! Oh yeah, it's a row of washers ;-)

favorit++9-12-2009-06-10-2.jpg
 
Oh God here we go again *rolls eyes*

Toploader1984...

First of all you cannot say a top loader is more reliable than a front loader. Some top loaders are more reliable than some front loaders (eg.modern Samsung, LG etc) and some front loaders are more reliable than some toploaders (remember Miele make the most reliable washers on the market, that's not opinion thats fact)

You happened to have an LG, these machines are horrendously overpriced and are some of the worst on the market for balancing on spin and reliability. You are judging all front loaders by your experience of this one, which isn't fair.

You sing the praises of Speed Queen appliances, in my dorms at uni last year we had commercial Speed Queen front loaders. These particular machines were actually cold fill only and heated the water themselves, making the cycle times well over an hour. Despite all this, after a few months my whites were more dull and dingy than anything I've ever seen before, despite using copious amounts of Ariel (the leading brand) powder. Perhaps I should have drenched them in chlorine bleach, but my whites are always gleaming from any other front loader without it.

Having also used a 1970s Maytag, a belt drive Kenmore, and modern Whirlpool Toploaders, they all left a lot to be desired, especially where coating everything in lint was concearned.

Top loaders and US front loaders with really short cycle times do clean the clothes I don't deny that, but it seems great lengths are needed to get whites whites, such as soaking, using tons of additives and lots of chlorine bleach. I actually suspect this is more to do with the poor quality and design of American detergents than the machines, as the Aussies don't seem to have the same problems with their top loaders.

In my personal view (now this is opinion which you can take into account or not) washing in a top loader or a US front loader is like washing dishes by hand, whereas using a European front loader is like washing dishes in a dishwasher. Both methods will clean stuff, but I doubt anyone on here would say dishes are cleaner by hand than by machine, and washing them be hand is a lot more effort.

I think if you had actually used European detergents and machines you would think differently about them. I'd say the reason most Europeans will disagree with you is that we have often tried both methods and know which one is best AND most efficient.

Matt
 
Repair Prone Front Loaders

This does not have to always be the case.

Miele and other European/UK H-Axis washing machines, especially vintage and or TOL models such as V-Zug are quite rugged machines, and often give years of service before repair is required, if ever.

Again, rubbish in equals rubbish out. Nothing is wrong switching from electro-mechanical timers or even electronic timers to computer controlled machines, long as the parts are up to the job. However often is the case there are more than one weak links, and when the machine fails costs of repair are dear.

Long cycle times with front loaders, at least modern ones are caused by several factors, one of which is the movement away from timers to totally computer controlled machines. On my vintage Miele can make cycles long or short as one wishes, skip rinses and so forth, all by moving the timer.

Today's modern detergents clean quite well with short cycle times in front loaders, and the best rinse cleanly without four or five rinses. Even better in vintage front loaders like mine that use enough water per cycle to get the job done.

Will agree there isn't a "best" machine, just a washer that suits one's purposes. However will say the American man who firs saw Wascomat washing machines on a Swedish ship realised at once they would do for commercial/laundromat applications in the United States. Top loading machines weren't really suited to the hard use of such conditions (or so the man's theory went", and the rest as they say is history. One rarely finds top loading washing machines in commercial laundries. Most laundromats have either totally switched over to front loading washers, or they make up a majority of washing machines. There has to be a reason for this.
 
I will not say anything for or against top- or frontloaders but only this:

When I was born my mother bought a toploader from Constructa(part of Siemens/Bosch). It ran until I turned 18 years, then we sold it because of a bathroom makeover. It was still working at this time. My mother decided to replace the Conctructa toploader by a Miele frontloader. Guess what: It will have its 10th b-day next year and still running. We replaced the rubber gum one time because of a tiny hole but this was it.

So..what do you guys think, I want to say with my post? ;-)
 
mmmmmm......

Flo,

Part of me says I should and part says I shouldn't....

...but was the Constructa a top-load, horizontal axis machine similar to those still made by Miele, Blomberg etc?
 
LG Tromm - Approved

I own the LG WM2233HW Washer and the DLE3733W dryer, and love them both! Speaking of that, I just bought another LG washer and it was delivered yesterday. Wanted more of a basic model for "play", and to help keep up with laundry at times. Got the older model WM2010CW for $498, and works very nice. My partner had a hard time getting acustomed to having more than enough vacuum cleaners for everyone on my block, but the washer thing he really tried to fight me on. I won!

Anything electronic can fail, period. I'm sure eventually I'll have to replace something on these, but what appliance don't you have to do this to eventually? You can get most any of the parts you need for these on Sears Parts Direct, and the prices aren't too bad either. Yes control boards and such are spendy, but that is true with any brand.

Everyone knows that nothing is made like it used to be 20 years ago. I would buy LG again for sure, but eventually I'll have a set of Mieles. A bit pricey for me at the moment though, so I picked the LGs. If you go into Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, etc, try pulling out the detergent drawer on every model you can find, then try the LG. To me, every other brand had a real cheapo feeling detergent drawer that didn't open smoothly. Maybe it's just that they are opened 500 times a day by wandering hands. Anyone else ever notice this? I think the worst detergent drawer I "tested" was on a Frigidaire. Yucky.

Andrew

vacfanatic++9-12-2009-08-28-13.jpg
 
~Most laundromats have either totally switched over to front loading washers, or they make up a majority of washing machines. There has to be a reason for this.

Yes:

Much less water usage and the lack of a transmission, lack of a water pump, all-stainless tub and drum, can't "overload" them, and timed dispensers.

On a Wascomat one gets a pre-wash, a main wash two or three rinses and a spin/extract. Psychologically that helps the customers beleive they are getting more than a wash /rinse spin of a top-loader. Just don't tell them that the Wascomats use only a bucket or two (two to four gallons) [8L to 16L +/-]of water per fill.

There are 3.78L per gallon- I use 4.0 for ease of estimation.
 
I really want a Euro boil-washer, and from what I hear (thanks Chestermike UK and all others) ASKO is the ticket.

IMHO a heater makes all the difference in performance. Perhaps one day most U.S. laundry rooms will come with a 220v washer outlet for some good heaters in front-loaders! Let's just hope we can get washers with heaters for (our) 60hz rather than ("foreign")50hz.

If only it was known how small the world would become, the entire world could have been engineered for 220v, 60hz (Each beleoved to be the best) and had the same wiring, outlet/power-point configurations and wire-color standards.
 
for all of u people from the uk, who keep bashing top loaders forget, this website was started from vintage AMERICAN top loaders! for all of you who own an AMERICAN LG or any other brand front loader besides maytag have had it more than 5 years without ANY proiblems? probably NOT!
 
btw hoover1100, (also rolling my eyes) i have an aunt that AND a friend who bought the duet, my aunt had issues with the computer, my friend kevin got rid of his b cuz of the balancing issue, plus everytime he did a load therte would be a puddle of water on the floor, ALSO! with my LG there would be a small puddle and little dribble of water on the floor after i did a load in th LG, thank go it was in the basement.
 
well Toploader1984

This website is dedicated to people who like washing and washing machines, dishwashers, tumble dryers, and any appliances really of any kind in any country of the world.

You say the machines leak from the door, well that is a fault and not a normal trait of front loaders.

I also believe there are members of this site who have had frigidaire front loaders and Whirlpool front loaders, built to the US specification, who have had them longer than 5 years.

The title of your thread states that "EVERYBODY" should read this, not just the Americans on here. If one of us Europeans started a thread moaning and complaining about top loaders, without any real experience of them and just ranting about one or two we've seen/used are you trying to tell me you wouldn't comment?

Now please stop trying to create and AW.org apartheid, where only americans can comment on american threads and only europeans can comment on european threads, and let everyone have their say and input on everything.

Matt
 
to be honest no one so far in this thread has "bashed&q

merely stated which type of machine they prefer and why. It is you who is "bashing" front loaders.

You also fail to realise that we did have toploaders made and sold here in the UK until just over 10 years ago, they weren't very popular because most people have their washer built under a work surface here.

Also, you can buy Whirlpool/Admiral top loaders here imported from the US. Again these are not very popular due to their size and the fact they cant be built under the work surface. I'm sure the G wash, G energy and D spin grades they get, compared to the A wash A energy and C spin of the worst front loaders on the market, puts people off too.

Matt
 
Toploader1984 Why ao angry / argumentative? Believe anything

obviously i can't believe what i want! i know there are ALOT of people on here who cannot stand front loaders, and would never buy one, there are alot of people on here who only are interested in top loaders, yet it seems like everytime i post a thread, it gets bombarded with tons of people from the uk bashing top loaders, making rude and pointless comments about us using too much water and not caring about the environment. and i really DON'T appreciate people who make comments towards me like " i am rolling my eyes again " that is just rude! you guys arent even giving other people a chance to comment, ur bombarding the thread with nasty comments towards me JUST b cuz i prefer top loaders.
 
the main reason why i dislike front loaders is b cuz there is no washing drama, it is like watching a dryer dry clothes, it is sort of boring, they are all the same. with top loaders, every make and model has a different agitator, different speed and wash strokes, some have a spin drain.
 
If I'm being very honest Toploader1984

I think the main reason your posts provoke somewhat aggressive reactions is because they come across as being rather antagonistic and aggressive in themselves. If you actually explained what you mean instead of just saying "frontloaders are awful" and leaving it at that you would get more balanced and fair responses.

It's fair enough if you find the action of a front loader boring, but you can't expect everyone to agree. I personally find the opposite to be true but again it all boils down to personal preference.

You can't just say "I hate front loaders" and be shocked and offended when you get responses basically saying "Well I hate Top Loaders" Every action results in an equal and opposite reaction.

Matt
 
^Matt, thats very well said. In response to the comment about frontloaders not lasting as long, well my grandparent's Hotpoint 18361 and matching dryer are about 27 years old now and have survived my 5 aunts and uncles washing plus my Dads and my grandma and grandads. My aunt and my 2 younger cousins now live with my grandma and that washer and dryer is in use almost every other day and they STILL run like new. The washer had it's first repair last year and the dryer has never had a repair. I think Matt hit the nail on the head - front loaders take up less space and houses over here are much smaller. I personally don't like that I can't see whats going on inside a toploader and the agitator thing doesn't really convince me. The idea of my clothes being tumbled around in water seems cleaner than having them floating around in a tank of water. The upside for me is that they hold HUGE amounts of washing. We had a Whirlpool American style toploader in my last job that held LOADS but I never thought it washed particularly well. It was replaced shortly before I left with a Miele professional which was much better imo.
 
With a View

I was ready to buy the Maytag Neptune and when I found out there was no window I opted for a giant tub NorgeTag which is still running quite nicely. I am a laundry voyeur. I love to watch the clothes roll over in a top loader. A huge to distraction to top load efficacy is overloading which also causes excessive linting. In my experience of house guests and tenants most users familiar with front loading machines over load a top loading washer. I personally believe short stroking modern machine slowed rollover, radically increased noise, bangada, bangada, bangada and don't clean as well as older full stroke washers. The Eggplants (my name for environmental activists) have taken a strangle hold of conservation issues in America and so often the cart gets before the horse in legislative reform regarding energy and water consumption. I love my old 30 year old Maytag and the whitest and cleanest of washes are produced from its lowly and simple design. Digital clocks, 3 minute hamburgers, 30 minute pizza delivery have contributed to America's time consciousness. Most things need to be large, fast and cheap. I am not referring to my love life. In teaching adult students one must first establish a benefit of what's to be gained before the adult learner truly listens. There in lies a great rub. Some may want entertainment, others drama, someone else savings in time or energy. My feeling is a rush to market with machines that are pushed to the limits of performance, have not all been engineered or assembled with the best choice of materials have caused American appliances to suffer in reliability and reliable service. I feel badly anytime the discussion becomes divisive or them against us. I am enjoying the discourse and hearing from home grown experts around the world sharing their experience . A parsimoness use of hot water plagues many American homes, cheap detergents don't help and improper sorting and loading challenge any American washer front or top loading. Laundress, true to her lovely form, has best illustrated my position on front loading machines and yet she owns brands and styles of machines that represent some of what others have criticized. I applaud you laundress for your decorum and wordsmithing, as well as many others from around the world. I apologize for brashness and again request the conversations continue as I find it so very educational. Me, I admit, I'm a soaker. Oxyclean and good detergent have saved many articles otherwise subjected to harsher methods and often the trash bin.

mixfinder++9-12-2009-12-52-51.jpg
 
> The idea of my clothes being tumbled around in water seems cleaner than having them floating around in a tank of water. <

For most American front loaders the opposite is true: I cringe when I see a big load of filthy clothes being tumbled around in just a few gallons of water, and people thinking there's actually some way a load of clothes can be cleaned, let alone sanitized in that much water.

And then people wonder why their FL's develop mold problems. Personally the whole FL technology, at least as it curently exists here in the U.S., disgusts me.
 
U.S. front loaders use enough water, the same amount of wate

So that is not the problem with them. The problem is the wash cycles being about an hour or so too short, so obviously results will suffer. It's like expecting a machine with Bosch Maxx water consumption to wash the clothes with 80s Hotpoint wash cycles. If cycles are of a reasonable length and temperatures high enough, even the biggest (not overloaded) and filthiest load will come out perfectly clean and sanitized with a decent detergent.

There is one reason and only one reason for a front loader to develop mould problems, that is keeping the door shut between cycles. I run a towels wash at 60c once a week, and one at 95c about twice a year, always remove the clothes straight away when the machine is finished and leave the door open between cycles. I have never had mould or smells in a machine.

Matt
 
Chris,

you are right. I just wanted to say: Prefer what you want, it will be okay. I love to watch the clothes being washed. Thats why I prefer frontloaders. But if someone prefers toploaders thats so okay. Sometimes, I really feel nostalgic and think about if the Constructa ist still working somewhere. Probably not but I have s special relationship with this machine because I lied on top of this machine while my mother changed my diapers. I was really sad when we gave this machine away even if I had no possibility to see the clothes :-)
 
^Matt, I agree about the mould. Washing at 30 does that to any machine, especially over a period of time. I've never had a problem with mould and every so often, i'll run the machine at 95 on an empty drum with a tiny splash of bleach in it to keep it clean. And FYI, mixfinder - I find washing clothes in stupid amounts of water which are clearly draining the natural resources AND washing for a stupidly small length of time in mediocre detergent disgusting. You might as well just wash your clothes in a bath with some soap and a wooden spoon. What you said clearly means that you think the clothes I'm wearing are disgusting - I'm quite proud of my clean home and personal hygiene, so thanks VERY much for that.
 
an hour isnt long enough? who has time to wait over 2 hours for ONE load of clothes to get done, certainly not the fast paced american people.
 

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