My trusty 22 year old New Yorker oil boiler heats 2000 sq. ft. plus hot water on an average of 500 gals. a year. Cheap this year to fill my oil tanks, but other past winters have hurt.
Everyone ready for winter?
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Winter? it's summer!
It's Summer down here on the south of the planet.
Foggy this morning but currently 30 degrees C (86 F) and bright sunshine at 4.20 pm.
We had a HOT christmas day - 36 degrees C (97 F) so appreciating the cooler weather. Tomato and zucchini plants enjoying the heat.
Chris.
It's Summer down here on the south of the planet.
Foggy this morning but currently 30 degrees C (86 F) and bright sunshine at 4.20 pm.
We had a HOT christmas day - 36 degrees C (97 F) so appreciating the cooler weather. Tomato and zucchini plants enjoying the heat.
Chris.
gusherb
Well-known member
Yes an old mechanical thermostat in parallel with the digital one, or I think they even sell fixed temp thermostats just for that purpose (AKA a construction thermostat, those come preset at like 40, 45, and 50 degrees). Or one could use a spare wire and hook up the common on the thermostat and be using low voltage from the transformer instead of batteries, couple that with something reliable like a contractor grade Honeywell (not that Honeywell junk from the Homo Depot) and you won't have any issues. I've got several Honeywell digital thermostats over 10 years old and not skipping a beat. Higher end models like their Prestige includes a couple of temp sensors that go in the return and supply plenum that allows some features of the thermostat to be utilized, but also acts as a failsafe if the thermostat itself were to fail somehow.
I think we are starting a new trend for Christmas in TN. Last year and this one too we had the AC on for Christmas day! Then the next day storms came through and the heat kicked on! I wish I had a house with hydronic heating in the floors...I hate cold floors. My 16 year old Amana (Goodman) gas package still going strong, knock wood.
If you can't have underfloort heating, you could consider a Cozy Toes heated carpet.
http://www.floormat.com/heated-mats/cozy-toes-carpeted-foot-warmer.html
http://www.floormat.com/heated-mats/cozy-toes-carpeted-foot-warmer.html
Also consider this
heated mattress pad not cheap but very effective ifyou are cold blooded like me
http://electrowarmth.com/
heated mattress pad not cheap but very effective ifyou are cold blooded like me
http://electrowarmth.com/
vacerator
Well-known member
Yes, if have to sleep alone,
or cuddle to heat up the bed.
.!. x2 or .!. plus () or whatever floats ones boat.
or cuddle to heat up the bed.
.!. x2 or .!. plus () or whatever floats ones boat.warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
WarmUp, WarmBoard, WarmlyYours are all retrofit electric floor heating systems. They can be installed under your present first floor flooring if you can access the underside from the basement.
However, Vacerator really has the right idea, IMO. Three is the ideal number IF you're in the middle. Puppy piles are fun, but work better for naps, I think. I'm not sure. I'm still experimenting
Jim
However, Vacerator really has the right idea, IMO. Three is the ideal number IF you're in the middle. Puppy piles are fun, but work better for naps, I think. I'm not sure. I'm still experimenting
Jim
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
Petek,
The "waste" heat from your old boiler not only keeps your basement warm, it also warms the floor of the first floor. Most people are comfortable at a slightly lower temps if the floors are warm than they would if the floors aren't. A new boiler will give you colder floors, a cooler basement, and minor drafts will abruptly seem not so minor. Been there, done that.
This happens to a lesser, but still noticeable extent with forced warm air. Ideally, the furnace will be in the basement with ducts running along the ceiling of the basement to the registers at the perimeter of the house. Heat "lost" from uninsulated ducts actually serves to warm the floor above. This reduces the feeling of chill alternating with blasts of heat that so many people associate with forced warm air heating.
The "waste" heat from your old boiler not only keeps your basement warm, it also warms the floor of the first floor. Most people are comfortable at a slightly lower temps if the floors are warm than they would if the floors aren't. A new boiler will give you colder floors, a cooler basement, and minor drafts will abruptly seem not so minor. Been there, done that.
This happens to a lesser, but still noticeable extent with forced warm air. Ideally, the furnace will be in the basement with ducts running along the ceiling of the basement to the registers at the perimeter of the house. Heat "lost" from uninsulated ducts actually serves to warm the floor above. This reduces the feeling of chill alternating with blasts of heat that so many people associate with forced warm air heating.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I've even heard of people specifically heating their basement (past waste heat from the heating system) with at least a partial goal of keeping the 1st floor warmer.
I was in a house last weekend that uses radiator system built into floors. One day is hard to judge such a system...but I can say I was quite comfortable there. I NEVER drink anything with ice in it during winter because it's too cold, and yet had at least a couple of drinks with ice there, and thought nothing of it.
I was in a house last weekend that uses radiator system built into floors. One day is hard to judge such a system...but I can say I was quite comfortable there. I NEVER drink anything with ice in it during winter because it's too cold, and yet had at least a couple of drinks with ice there, and thought nothing of it.
thespiritof76
Well-known member
To Lord Kenmore...=)
I like Big Bertha too! Of coarse she is modest, she is Victorian...lol...Modesty was a Victorian virtue=)...
I am going to keep the vintage Honeywell thermostat. I don't trust anything new, and that has served its propose for twice of my life time. Nothing appears to be worn or broken, and the wires are not crumbling or deteriorating. So I see no point in using a new fangled, digital piece of garbage...lol....
And to answer Lord Kenmore's question about my house, It is just a craftsman style home. But it is a prestigious home, was built for the original Wichita City Commissioner Mr,Garrison Scott. It is pretty much a time capsule of a house, with all its original wood work, and doors, and lead glass, and door knobs, and hard wood still intact. I will post a few pics to let you get a idea. Enjoy.
I like Big Bertha too! Of coarse she is modest, she is Victorian...lol...Modesty was a Victorian virtue=)...
I am going to keep the vintage Honeywell thermostat. I don't trust anything new, and that has served its propose for twice of my life time. Nothing appears to be worn or broken, and the wires are not crumbling or deteriorating. So I see no point in using a new fangled, digital piece of garbage...lol....
And to answer Lord Kenmore's question about my house, It is just a craftsman style home. But it is a prestigious home, was built for the original Wichita City Commissioner Mr,Garrison Scott. It is pretty much a time capsule of a house, with all its original wood work, and doors, and lead glass, and door knobs, and hard wood still intact. I will post a few pics to let you get a idea. Enjoy.
philr
Well-known member
That's the kind of place I like!
twintubdexter
Well-known member
You can sure tell that house is not in my neighborhood...there isn't another home three feet away. That's real luxury.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Stunning house! Thanks for sharing the photos!
I like houses with interior woodwork like that. That house had the radiator system I've mentioned before in this thread apparently had good woodwork. I don't known when that house was built--much later than 1903; I'm thinking about 1920. I've wondered if I like houses from that era because I remember that one house on a deep level, and it was fairly good time in my family's history.
I like houses with interior woodwork like that. That house had the radiator system I've mentioned before in this thread apparently had good woodwork. I don't known when that house was built--much later than 1903; I'm thinking about 1920. I've wondered if I like houses from that era because I remember that one house on a deep level, and it was fairly good time in my family's history.
thespiritof76
Well-known member
Lord Kenmore,
All the City records show a build date of 1903, even the original permit for build. Trust me I went through yards of Microfilm at the Liabry to find it! LOL...The Permit was taken in 1903, my Mr Scott for $5000.00.
All the City records show a build date of 1903, even the original permit for build. Trust me I went through yards of Microfilm at the Liabry to find it! LOL...The Permit was taken in 1903, my Mr Scott for $5000.00.
Old thermostats do go off-kilter, become inaccurate. A store/office where I worked from 1999 to 2007 had (probably still does) a Carrier HVAC system that surely dated to the 1960s if not earlier. The thermostat was wonky with a wide, uncomfortable temperature swing. Had to be set cooler than necessary in summer so the room temp didn't swing too high before it cycled back on, and vice-versa for heating.
My aching back
After winter storm whatever finally ended today, I had to shovel my entire 150 ft. driveway by hand. Snowblowers will not budge that heavy wet cement. And naturally, we lost power for 10 hours. Thankfully, in about 3 months, this crap will be over. I hate winter, I am too old for it now.
After winter storm whatever finally ended today, I had to shovel my entire 150 ft. driveway by hand. Snowblowers will not budge that heavy wet cement. And naturally, we lost power for 10 hours. Thankfully, in about 3 months, this crap will be over. I hate winter, I am too old for it now.
gusherb
Well-known member
I wouldn't go so far as to call a digital thermostat a piece of garbage. I've seen many Honeywell digital models that are close to 30 years old and still working. Any consumer grade one is garbage, I agree, but Honeywell pro grade stuff, and Emerson to a slightly less extent is pretty good quality equipment. Perhaps as a compromise if you would like something far more accurate, you could pick up a NOS Honeywell T87F on eBay, preferably the gold colored one made before 2000 or so. Those and the T874 were the most accurate mechanical thermostat ever made. They work extremely well with hot water and steam heating systems with some tweaking of the heat anticipator to dial the cycle rate in just right.
John - Our first floor system with uninsulated sheet metal ductwork does a pretty good job at providing impromptu radiant floor heating, and I could care less that the joints are not air tight as that also keeps the basement conditioned summer and winter.
John - Our first floor system with uninsulated sheet metal ductwork does a pretty good job at providing impromptu radiant floor heating, and I could care less that the joints are not air tight as that also keeps the basement conditioned summer and winter.
I'm pretty happy with the performance of the Aprilaire 8400 series that was installed when I bought the home. True, I had to adjust the temp swing to "tighten" it up a bit, but it has been reliable and accurate.
At some point, I will replace it with another Aprilaire programmable unit.
At some point, I will replace it with another Aprilaire programmable unit.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
TheSpiritOf76
Clarification--my post above wasn't crafted too well (sorry!). I was in a hurry to get out to do some errands. The house I referred to being later than 1903 was one my family had (ca. 1920), not yours.
It's neat that you've been able to get historical information...even if meant tiresome hours of going through microfilm!
Clarification--my post above wasn't crafted too well (sorry!). I was in a hurry to get out to do some errands. The house I referred to being later than 1903 was one my family had (ca. 1920), not yours.
It's neat that you've been able to get historical information...even if meant tiresome hours of going through microfilm!
Too Big a Swing
I have lived in a few houses with steam heat. A swing of 5 to 6 degrees is normal for this type of system. When thermostat calls for heat and furnace starts its sometimes 10-15 minutes before the system is charged and producing heat in all rooms. When the thermostat is satisfied and the system shuts down there is still plenty of steam and heat in the boiled to keep the radiators producing more heat. It does not just stop just because the furnace has stopped. Plus the radiators themselves are heated up and continue for awhile till the pressure and heat in the boiler have lowered. What I have found was that the higher the temp was set in the house, the less amount of swing there was. The colder the weather outside I found to have less swing also. These type of systems are a different beast that what is found in newer homes of today. When these were installed some houses had no insulation and window curtains would move around from all the air infiltration. Oil and coal was cheap so you just cranked up the thermostat to compensate. My opinion is that a digital thermostat is not going to make any difference in the performance of this unit.
Jon
I have lived in a few houses with steam heat. A swing of 5 to 6 degrees is normal for this type of system. When thermostat calls for heat and furnace starts its sometimes 10-15 minutes before the system is charged and producing heat in all rooms. When the thermostat is satisfied and the system shuts down there is still plenty of steam and heat in the boiled to keep the radiators producing more heat. It does not just stop just because the furnace has stopped. Plus the radiators themselves are heated up and continue for awhile till the pressure and heat in the boiler have lowered. What I have found was that the higher the temp was set in the house, the less amount of swing there was. The colder the weather outside I found to have less swing also. These type of systems are a different beast that what is found in newer homes of today. When these were installed some houses had no insulation and window curtains would move around from all the air infiltration. Oil and coal was cheap so you just cranked up the thermostat to compensate. My opinion is that a digital thermostat is not going to make any difference in the performance of this unit.
Jon
The advantage of good digital thermostats is that they can learn. They'll have the weird swing for a couple of days or so, but if everything is set up correctly (type of heating plant, fuel, etc), after a very short period it becomes dead accurate, because the thermostat learns how long your home takes to heat from a certain temperature to hit the target.
Once it knows that, it will turn on just a tad bit before it's needed and run for exactly the right amount of time to bring it up to temp and turn off even if the temp has not been reached yet, because it knows how much heat the boiler/furnace will continue to add to the space.
I once installed one (Honeywell Magicstat, if I remember right) in a 60-ish year old home with very little insulation and an oil furnace that used 1 gallon of oil per hour. The first month it used 300 gallons of oil. I installed the magicstat, and 3 days later instead of the nearly 10 degree swing the house stayed at a constant 70F and used about 250 gallons/month for the rest of the several winters I've spent there.
Maybe it doesn't fit everyone's style or needs, but our household was very happy with the comfort and economy -- then again, that was back when oil cost a dollar per gallon or less. We moved out 6 months before the price of oil doubled, the new tenants were not happy. They also lowered the thermostat to around 50 degrees, but the walls were so badly insulated that the pipes burst all over the home. Apparently the landlord had to gut and insulate everything.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
Once it knows that, it will turn on just a tad bit before it's needed and run for exactly the right amount of time to bring it up to temp and turn off even if the temp has not been reached yet, because it knows how much heat the boiler/furnace will continue to add to the space.
I once installed one (Honeywell Magicstat, if I remember right) in a 60-ish year old home with very little insulation and an oil furnace that used 1 gallon of oil per hour. The first month it used 300 gallons of oil. I installed the magicstat, and 3 days later instead of the nearly 10 degree swing the house stayed at a constant 70F and used about 250 gallons/month for the rest of the several winters I've spent there.
Maybe it doesn't fit everyone's style or needs, but our household was very happy with the comfort and economy -- then again, that was back when oil cost a dollar per gallon or less. We moved out 6 months before the price of oil doubled, the new tenants were not happy. They also lowered the thermostat to around 50 degrees, but the walls were so badly insulated that the pipes burst all over the home. Apparently the landlord had to gut and insulate everything.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
I have a Honeywell Chronotherm Touch, I rececntly replaced my Chronotherm lll with it. I love it, it's very accurate.
Did I just get screwed?
I have this Trane Gas Force air system that was installed 13 years ago. I had maintenance done on Friday. The tech shows me the ignitor from the system and says it may crack and become useless. He said it would be $75. He also said the condensate pump is not working well and that was $125. He discounted the prices and the total was $180. I said yes. At first I was skeptical. I said yes even though I think I was taken for a ride. Anyone feel the same?
I have this Trane Gas Force air system that was installed 13 years ago. I had maintenance done on Friday. The tech shows me the ignitor from the system and says it may crack and become useless. He said it would be $75. He also said the condensate pump is not working well and that was $125. He discounted the prices and the total was $180. I said yes. At first I was skeptical. I said yes even though I think I was taken for a ride. Anyone feel the same?
Digital thermostats
Paulo: Thanks for the info on the newer digital thermostats. I did not know that they have incorporated a learning curve. Nice feature that can be useful on older steam heat. I guess in this day of technology someone is thinking and creating units that can function well with older systems and make them more energy efficient and controlled.
Jon
Paulo: Thanks for the info on the newer digital thermostats. I did not know that they have incorporated a learning curve. Nice feature that can be useful on older steam heat. I guess in this day of technology someone is thinking and creating units that can function well with older systems and make them more energy efficient and controlled.
Jon
My old Chronotherm III needed a long learning curve for how long the house would need to get warm. I caught it a few times heating the house in te middle of the night. The new Chronotherm Touch just took a few days. It's very convenient to just program at what time you want the house to be warm and the thermostat heating the house in time.
cozy toes
Louis, thanks for that link. I've been considering one of those. I sleep on a cozy waterbed so I have automatic climate control while I dream.
Louis, thanks for that link. I've been considering one of those. I sleep on a cozy waterbed so I have automatic climate control while I dream.
I have lived in this state for nearly 63 years and the winters are getting more stranger. 4 storms in the last 2 weeks that dumped heavy wet cement, not nice fluffy, easy to snowblow snow you have to shovel by hand. Instead it will be turning frigid to glare ice, when power goes out again, then shovel if you can, sand, rinse and repeat again tomorrow for the next one. Getting VERY old and 3 more months of this crap at least to go. Who knows if global warming has anything to do with it. All I know, I have never seen winters extreme swings like the past 2 years.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
"Who knows if global warming has anything to do with it.
Last I read global warming will cause everywhere north and east of Chicago and Wash, DC to become cooler and wetter. Kinf of sucks because as time goes by we'll need to produce a larger and larger percentage of the world's food.
Last I read global warming will cause everywhere north and east of Chicago and Wash, DC to become cooler and wetter. Kinf of sucks because as time goes by we'll need to produce a larger and larger percentage of the world's food.
Who knows if global warming has anything to do with it
<blockquote>
no, but if we keep listenting to Algore, we'll all come to the conclusion humans will cause Mother Earth to lurch out of orbit and careen towards an as yet unnamed planet and we'll all croak.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
no, but if we keep listenting to Algore, we'll all come to the conclusion humans will cause Mother Earth to lurch out of orbit and careen towards an as yet unnamed planet and we'll all croak.
</blockquote>
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