Filtrating in Minneapolis

[kenmore71]

Fabric damage in a filtrator is really not much of an issue if you know what you are doing and use some common sense.  

 

In normal operation things should never get hot enough to cause either degradation, melting or scorching of fabrics.  Fabrics such as polyester will start to signs of degradation at around 350 degrees but do not actually melt until about 500 degrees.  Nylon and Dacron are similar.  Dry cotton will begin to scorch at about 400 degrees.  The normal operating temperature on High for an early filtrator is 210 degrees at the thermostat bulb on high.  In practice this means that the temperature in the middle of a dry load can approach 240-250 degrees.  That's pretty hot, but not hot enough to cause damage first of all because, if timed correctly, things should never actually get so dry that they get that hot at the center.  Secondly, because there is so much steam present in the drum for most of the cycle it is hard to over dry things, again, as long as you keep the cycle times sensible.  Also, I don't know anyone who actually sets these early dryer on the HIGH setting.  I use the medium setting for cottons and LOW for blends and synthetics.

 

 

 

 

[tomturbomatic]

There is one problem with the temperatures in the Filtrator and that is that the drum surface can actually be hotter than the air temperature because of the radiant heat from the heaters. Great care must be exercised with heat sensitive fabrics because even if the air in the drum feels just warm, the cylinder can be hot enough for synthetic things to become damaged from the contact. You only have to have it happen once to becopme very, very careful. Generally, if things are wet enough and you are careful, there is no trouble, as Mark said.

 

[kenmore71]

Tom, I haven't had it happen to me yet, but I do know of people who have over dried nylon dress socks and found them fused to the drum!  This could actually also happen with the early Maytag dryers with the perforated drum.  

 

[launderess]

Cool Down

Speaking for myself (and I am unanimous) our AEG/Lavatherm does not "cool down" the way one is used to with American vented dryers.

Thus far loads emerge warm to even slightly hot to the touch upon coming out of the dryer. Indeed things are quite moist as well. All this changes as the load meets cool room air. Then whatever moisture remaining evaporates away and things cool down rapidly.

In our vented WP dryer once the heaters shut down for the "Cool Down" portion off cycles not only cool room air enters the chamber. However seeing how condenser dryers are sealed systems this is not possible I think. That is room air does not enter the chamber but is merely used to provide thermal difference for condensation to occur. Therefore it makes little difference to the load inside what the room temperature.

At the end of cycle AEG dryer is still quite warm both outside and inside, along with often moist as whatever water that was not evaporated remains.

 

[launderess]

Condenser Dryer "Scent" On Laundry

Yes, our AEG does this as well, even without an ozone lamp.

We put it down to the fact these condenser dryers are sealed systems thus no outside air reaches the laundry unless or until dryer door is opened.

 

[kenmore71]

The AEG dryer may well be a completely closed system.  

 

The first iteration filtrator (1952-1960) was not technically a totally closed system.  Frigidaire designed it such that there would be about 10 cfm of air change in the drum.  In their technical literature they stated that about 50% the moisture from the clothes would be condensed into the collection pan and that the remainder of the moisture would be dissipated into the room.  

 

The second generation of fitrator dryers (1961-1967) appears to be a completely closed system. 

 

[launderess]

50% Moisture Sent Into Room?

Well you'll won't be short for something to keep you warm this winter! *LOL*

 

[kenmore71]

Well, actually no.  It's more like 20 - 30% sent into the room.  Generally speaking you would never take the moisture content of a natural fiber below 20-30%.  So...50% condensed, 25% in the room, 25% left in the fabric.  

 

[launderess]

OIC

Carry on then.

 

[mickeyd]

Taking the Heat

Can't decide if I'd rather have a condenser dryer now, or a pudding which in our family would be Plum with hard sauce, (smiling).

Great short course and seminar, and many thanks. Last winter when I contracted Combo fever I noticed that all the combos available were condenser dryers. All reviewers mentioned what Laundress did about how the dried load at first seems so moist then quickly dries.

Part of the fascination of laundry for me is scent, the soap, the washing liquors, the clean fresh rinse water, the fragrant line drying, So from what I've read here, a condenser is gilding the lily when one must dry indoors; the scent , transporting; and it does not have to be a Frigidaire.

Have I read correctly?

 

[philr]

Here's another recent thread about condenser dryers. Both types of Frigidaire Filtrator dryers were covered in it.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47306

 

[tomturbomatic]

Manuals for condenser dryers and even the Hamilton, which dries clothes in a steamy atmosphere, instructed users to test for dryness by taking an item out of the dryer because items would feel damp inside the air in the dryer.

The Hamilton was another dryer which did not cool down because the air stream was mostly pulled through the bottom of the dryer so all of that heated steel at the top of the outer drum under layers of insulation stayed quite warm. I usually direct a stream of air into the upper regions with a Vornado fan to blast some of that heat out into the basement after I am finished with drying during cold weather when I use that dryer.

 

[combo52]

Cool Down in Older Dryers

One of the main reasons that early dryers including condenser dryers did not cool down well in that the cool down time was usually only 5 minutes and many MTs had only three minutes. The early dryer manufacturers were only concerned about the user being able to handle the clothes comfortably when removing them from the dryer, not about the wrinkles that would soon set in from permanent press items sitting in a hot dryer. On modern dryers the cool-down is at least 10 minutes and sometimes more than 30.

 

All Air-Cooled condenser dryers leak at least some of the moisture into the room air where they are operating, these early 1952-1960 Frigidaire s did release around 50% of the water left in the clothing into the room where the machine was operating. My 1962 FD Custom Imperial Filterator that I have been using in the winter for some loads for over 20 years does increase the humidity level somewhat after drying a few loads [ fortunately with an advanced hot air heating system in the house it is quickly well distributed ] but it is much better than early style Filtrator.

 

In the case of Laundresses new AEG condenser dryer that is accumulating little or no water in its collection container I am sure the moisture is going into the room. Laundress it would be an interesting experiment to check the room humidity before you start drying clothing and after you finished drying a few loads. If a condenser dryer is working properly you will always get some water in the pan no matter how fast the load had been spun out.

 

[tomturbomatic]

While it is not a condensing dryer, my early 50s GE has no cooldown and completely lacks a no heat setting. It just drys and shuts off. The Hamilton from the same year does have a short cooldown at the end of the cycle. The early Westinghouse auto dry dryers just shut off when the load reached a preset temperature, leaving things hot and dry as hell.

To show you what CAN be done, the Permanent Press drying cycle on our late 60s Philco Duomatic had a long cooldown where the condensing water continued coming into the machine and an 1100 watt element was used to keep the items from getting damp during the cooldown. I rarely used it because I was right there when we dried permapress shirts on the regular dry cycle with its short cooldown and removed items right away, but it was an ingenious cooldown method that gave satisfactory results. The Duomatic was auto dry only, but had a dial that could be set for the degree of dryness. That combined with the inherent soft results of condenser drying always gave perfect results.

 

[launderess]

@Combo

Wasn't going to post as am sure persons are that sick of hearing about my Lavatherm worries, but have solved the problem.

It turns out besides not having the hose connected to the collecting drawer one was inserting the heat exchanger/condenser improperly.

Directions simply say to *replace* the heat exchanger reversing the method of taking out (pulling out), however when one pondered what was going on whilst staring at the dryer things became clear.

Diagrams on the dryer tell one to pull the condenser unit down and then out. We were simply pushing it back in (again and again). So pulled the thing out and holding it up and pushing upwards reinserted then locked. For the first time one heard a "clunk" sound which meant the nozzle on end of heat exchanger was pushed into the opening in the rear of compartment that leads to the sump/drain pump. Long story short next load that was dried gave about 250ml of water. This water was lint filled and more importantly tinged with bits of blue. Since the hoodies one dried of that colour we take it to mean this was condensed water from this load.

As for where the water was going before we connected the drain hose to drawer properly and inserted the heat exchanger the right way, it cannot enter the room as vapor. Much of it as AEG technical service predicted leaked onto the floor behind and under the dryer. That conversation started by reminding us of our high school physics class; water will always seek a certain level.

The AEG Lavatherm dryer as told to us by AEG Canada is a sealed system. If water collects in the holding chamber before the pump that cannot or is not drained away it will overflow somewhere, but as water, and not turned back into steam. Of course if the sump overflows float will kick in and shut the machine down with proper warning signals as to the problem.

As for amounts of moisture leaking into the room as steam, we've not noticed any change in that regards. Warmth yes, as the dryer becomes very hot during use. Will be able to tell further when cold weather finally arrives and use of the dryer causes windows and or glass to become foggy.

 

[launderess]

IMHO How Much If Any Steam Leaks Into Room With Conendenser

Is related to how well sealed the door and heat exchanger area are. In a well designed and built condenser dryer those would be the two weakest links such as it was for air leaking both in and out of the dryer.

 

[danemodsandy]

Hoodies?

Launderess, have you taken to taking in washing?

I visualize you in a Marks & Spencer jeweled twinset, nothing less!

Robin's-egg blue, of course - and a pair of those cat-eye glasses so dear to the heart of Mary Whitehouse.

 

[tomturbomatic]

"water will always seek a certain level."

And one of the most damning things that could be said of someone's actions in the south was,"Well, water always seeks its own level," because it was always downward, just like behind your dryer.