Final Results from the Extraction Test

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

Yes, it will definitely be interesting to see how the Frankendaire stacks up. You put the bigger tub in that one, right? Wow, a 30-minute final spin.
Hi Eugene, that is correct, I put the 1963-1969 12lb tub into the Super Unimatic. It's 1.25" wider and a bit higher. Yes the Super Unimatic is the ultimate in Dial Pushing. I just changed the final spin time (or any step in the cycle) to what ever I want on the computer screen and press start! It's spinning right now, probably has about 20 minutes of more spinning to go.
 
Wow Robert!
You could start your own Consumer Mag.
Thanks for your hard work on these findings! It is very interesting!
Can't wait to hear about your creation, and how it did in the race.
Brent
 
Here they are, I removed the column "Water Removal Per Minute" because that was misleading. I added a column for "Residual Moisture Contents after Spinning", because that's the way the euro-boys like to see it :). It based on the Towels weighing 7lbs dry. The towels have now had enough and they are begging for a rest, so I hung them up in the basement to finish drying. Tomorrow I will fold them and reweigh them to see if they lost any weight in the tests.

Spinning the towels at 1140rpm for 30 minutes certainly makes them dry, but there was still water coming out of the holes at the top of the tub and hitting the window in the Super Unimatic after 29.5 minutes of spin!
 
I wonder if you put this on a graph, what the most efficent in time romoval of water on one axis would be vesus amount of water removed on another axis, seems like Matyag Amp would win,where the x cross section is is as the best, but we probably would have to factor in tub capacity, which is another variable. But I have to say that little Maytag amp kicked ass for its time.
 
I wonder if you put this on a graph, what the most efficent in time romoval of water on one axis would be vesus amount of water removed on another axis, seems like Matyag Amp would win,where the x cross section is is as the best, but we probably would have to factor in tub capacity, which is another variable. But I have to say that little Maytag amp kicked ass for its time.
 
Hooray for the wonderful "Super Unimatic"!!!

You broke the barrier and went beyond 70 percent extraction with the Fridigaire that you doctored up! Oh, but 30 minutes of spin. Such a long time! You might wear it out if that became a habit. Thanks again Robert for all your hard work of posting all the pictures and doing the comparative chart. You have no idea how much I have enjoyed this thread (well, and EVERYTHING else you do to bring this board together!) You are my hero!

I realized tonight that if we could figure out the complete mathmatical equation, spin dry results could be completely predictable mathmatically speaking, once we know things like G-forge. The wildcard here is time and that is the thing that I cannot quite see how to express mathmatically (I am a dunce who had to take freshman algebra twice and barely passed-at a community college. Sad, yah?) It would be some sort of very steep curve but maybe some one who did just a bit better in skool write this out as a mathmatical formula, so we can all figure out how well our machines do in theory.
 
Well Done Robert!!!!

Wow, just sat here browsing those results!!! makes great reading, That 47 GE certainly did kick some G`;s for its time, and do I remember it only having three castors??

Many thanks for the Residual %`s, I least you recognise how pernickity we Euro Boys are, ( okay, I am, I`ll own it...LOl) I`m with David, I nearly frazzed my brain trying to figure it all out...

I was thinking the GE Harmoney would have been somewhat better with the large diameter drum and fastest speed...I dont think the factor is to do with how long it spins, but the "Torgue and/or G Force....Also the % for the Kelvinator was not much different to the Harmoney, saying it was half the revs & time...

Most fast spinning Euro washers average 44% for a 1600rpm machine, Miele at 1800 is 43% and Gorenje at 2,000rpm is 42%, The MaytagAsko I have is 1600 at 44% but that spins for 9 mins continuously, but only 2 mins at max:
0 - 1 min 600
1 - 5 mins 1200
5 - 7 mins 1400
7 - 9 mins 1600

I`'m no mathmatician or physicist, but is it also to do with "Torque and G Force???..For instance some machines seem to speed up slowly and smoothly to gain top speed , particularly induction motors, but others with bigger motors power surge up to the speed very quickly, the MaytagAsko really powers up to the next spin phase and I`m sure its this "surge" and "Shift of Energy" that drives more water out...or I could have had to much coffee!!!

Cheers, Mike

p.s. Robert your Washer Fame is Ledgendary, you`ve got your own programme named after you!!!....LOl
 
Hi Mike, this is all so fun and very interesting. I have to admit I much prefer using your Residual Moisture Content as a rating. It shows a bigger spread between the machines and it’s much easier to weigh the clothes dry than to try and get their weight with them dripping wet. Plus this is what Consumer Reports and Consumer Research Bulletin used in the 1940's so it's the way to go for sure.

I was going to ask you Euro boys today what the ratings are for the some of the machines on the other side of the pond, so thanks for reading my mind and providing that Mike.
Most fast spinning Euro washers average 44% for a 1600rpm machine.

Now here is my question: do we know have any idea what type of fabrics they were using to measure and come up with 44%? The reason I am asking is because in April 1948 Consumer Reports found that the Unimatic scored 41% and the General Electric scored 36%. Then in June of 1948 Consumer Research Bulletin found that the Unimatic scored 51% and the GE scored 46%. Now obviously the machines didn't change so the only variable left is the type of fabrics they used for these different tests.

My tests find the GE Scored 60% and the Unimatic 66%, but this was done with heavyweight towels. What would happen if I run a few tests with 7lbs of standard men’s long sleeve shirts? I will try this in both the Bendix and the GE because these are on both ends of the spectrum and let’s sees what the residual moisture content rating comes out to.

By the way I love my very own cycle <blush>, but I'm sure long at 63 minutes!
 
30 Minute Spin -- Robert, wouldn't that be kinda hard on the machine?

Hi Jeff, Over time yes, but it was only a one time test to see what the effect of time has on the results, so it's just fine.
 
Secret Forumla

David the secret forum for figuring out Residual Moisture Content is:

<font color = blue>Weight of Clothing after Final Spin</font> x (100 / <font color = red>Weight of Clothing Dry</font>) - 100
 
Robert - European washers are tested using a load of cottons to the maximum load capacity of the machine (nowadays often 6-7 kg). As Mike said, an 1800rpm spin will average about 43% RMC, 1600rpm 44%, 1400 50%, and 1200 generally gets about 53-54% RMC.

In terms of spin time - as you probably know I have 2 1600rpm washers; both the AEG and the Miele. The AEG will maintain 1600rpm for 4 or 5 minutes, whilst the Miele spins at 1600rpm for 2 minutes at the end... and I have to say, although I haven't tested this scientifically, that I haven't really noticed a difference between stuff that has been spun for 1600rpm for 4 minutes and laundry that's been spun at 1600 for 2. I did read somewhere that, for European frontloaders at least, that the speed that gets the most noticeable moisture out of laundry is 1100rpm or so, whereas any higher speeds extract little more out though I have noticed a big difference between using 1600 and 1200rpm.

The spin profile on my AEG, is a long 12 minute process (and quite painful!). Distributes, 800rpm burst, back to distribute speed, 1 minute 800rpm spin, back to distribute speed (no tumbling), then it profiles through 800/1000/1200/1400 for about 2 minutes, then maintains 1600rpm for 4 or 5 minutes before slowing down. The Miele does it somewhat quicker - it will do 0-3 bursts depending how heavy/absorbent the load is, and will then start the final spin at 6 minutes - profiling up through 400/600/900 to 1200 in the first minute of the spin or so, 1200rpm for 3 minutes, then for the last 2 minutes the drum speeds to 1600rpm. It seems to do just as well a job as the AEG's elongated spin process, so I think with frontloaders at least the key stages of extraction are within the first few minutes of a spin - and spinning any longer than necessary doesn't really extract more water.

Anyway that's enough of my babble! Well done on the tests, they're very interesting and have got me hooked to this thread!

BTW - unfortunately the AEG is now out of service, but I could always perform a similar test in my Miele when I have free time, perhaps at different speeds too, to give a frontloader perspective? Mind you the towels won't be the same weight but if we're working out RMC values it might give a general idea.

Jon

P.S. - The 30 minute spin on your Unimatic may seem frightfully long, but my nana's newer machine takes 20-25 minutes to do the standard final spin cycle!
 
Hi Jon, very cool information thank you. I'm sure adding time to the highest speed spin does make a difference but that's on a sliding scale, 2 short minutes isn't enough where 30 minutes is way too much to be efficient.

Question for you, you say:

European washers are tested using a load of cottons to the maximum load capacity of the machine

My question is what does "load of cottons" mean exactly. Does it mean a load of heavyweight cotton towels or lightweight cotton shirts? I suspect that the two different cotton types will show very different scores, but we will find out for sure tonight.
 
To be honest with you, I don't know! That's all we as consumers know... a load of cottons. I share the same criticisms as you, as jeans, towels, t shirts are all made out of cotton but have varying weights. Perhaps that could be used to extend my little RMC test further, if I use "different" loads of cottons.

BTW - off subject, but another sneaky thing that manufacturers do to get around the EU energy labelling testing, is that the standards for the test is for a 60*C cottons cycle. A lot of manufacturers have an "Eco" cycle, set at 60*C, which washes for 2 and a half hours but uses very little water... whereas all the other cycles can be completed much quicker and with more water.

In terms of spinning time, I think that 2 minutes of 1600 is plenty enough seeming as laundry has already been spun at 1200rpm beforehand before speeding up - and doesn't take too long a process - there were often times I used to get frustrated at the AEG for spending so much time spinning when the Miele did the whole process within 6 minutes (including profiling up at the beginning and decelerating at the end). On the reverse, a Hotpoint washer we had from the late 1990s would spin at 1000rpm for 2 or 3 minutes then spin at the maximum 1200rpm speed for... wait for this... 20 seconds if that. Now *THAT* is a joke of a spin cycle! Not surprisingly I think the RMC was about 64% on that machine!

Jon
 
Fabrics!!!!!

Hi Robert

The fabric most testing agencies / companies use are "Heavy Absorbent Cotton Towelling" a number of towels the same size, grade and quality...This ensures the same load with max absorbtion, offering comparable results....

It will be interesting to see what results a jeans load or shirt load would be!!!

Nowthen any guesses what the Hotpoint twinny at 3,100rpm or a Spin X at 3,300 would be???

Mike
 
Robert are the towels dry?

wondered if they still weigh 7 lbs? after that marathon of rinsing spinning and weighing? were they 100% cotton or a blend? Lawd, i got involved in your experiment Sunday night and missed who the killer was on cold case LOL. arthur
 
Mike, I`ve had some difficulies, too to find out the secret formula. LOL

Robert, I did some research on da what kind of cottons question, but no success.
The norm testing institutes in Europe use is IEC 60456, would be interesting to read, but unfortunately the copyright doesn`t allow without purchase.
 
Mike the reason I'm asking is because if the Euro washer makers claim 44% with heavy towels that's over 15% more water removed than the 60% the GE recorded. When I had the 1600rpm Asko I found the final spin took out slightly more water than the Unimatic, but not enough to make that large of a difference. The diameter of the wash tub in the Asko was quite small. That's why I was curious about the fabric type they used to make these 44% claim, do these machines have much wider drums than the Asko?

Nowthen any guesses what the Hotpoint twinny at 3,100rpm or a Spin X at 3,300 would be???
Ohhh I want to make a guess but first can you tell us the diameter of the spin basket and how long of a spin they will get?????? I can't wait to hear your results.

wondered if they still weigh 7 lbs? after that marathon of rinsing spinning and weighing? were they 100% cotton or a blend?
Arthur they are 100% cotton. And I just weighed them, they way 6.85lbs, they only lost 0.15lbs of mass! I have a feeling not drying them in a dryer or on a line outside helps them to hold on to their weight.

Here is my seven pound wash load that is washing in the little Bendix as we speak, I was careful to make the wash load exactly 7lbs (had to remove some undees). This is really dirty clothes and not test clothes so I'm using a 1/2 cup of Dash for the wash. I wont put in any softener. They are washing in warm water (105F) and rinsing in cold (39F/+3C). After they come out of the Bendix and I weigh them, I will put them through a cold rinse in the GE and I will take the results. All these fabrics are 100% cotton. I can't wait to see what happens!

Stay tuned, also Kevin was kind enough to let me know that my formula for calculating G-Forces was incorrect so my G-Force ratings in my chart were double of what they should. I will correct that with the latest update.

Here is what's washing...
 
Breaking News from a Basement in South Minneapolis...

The dramatic results are in (the two green lines on the updated chart below). Unfortunately they show that load type really effects the RMC scores! It appears the only fair way to really compare any machines properly is to use the exact same wash load. The GE scored and amazing 32% with a 7lb mixed cotton wash, down from 60% with thirsty new towels and close to the 36% that Consumer Reports reported in April of 1948...
 
G Force!!!

Hi Robert

I see where you are coming from, thats why I was very surprised at the GE result being in the sixties...

My contact who worked in a testing lab said that they had to use heavily absorbent towelling, because it had to represent the most uniformly absorbent item that a home user would wash.

The ASKO you had was the same size as mine 5kg, the newer machines are rated 6kg but the difference in drum width would only be cm`s etc.

Will do the drum sizes later, Mike
 
Thanks Mike! When you get a chance to run some tests please let us know what you find out, I'm very curious.

You know, Ms. Jetcone has a Miele. If I can get in touch with her maybe she will let me come over with my scale and thirsty towels and let me run a test through her Miele Front Loader. It will be interesting to see how it performs compared to the GE.
 
Hi Mike,

Great results as well. I didn't know you had a Maytag automatic! I'd like to see some pics...if you get a chance ;-)

Btw, the normal spin speed for all Maytags (AMP and Helical Drive) is 618 RPM. I'm not sure what low speed is.
 
Oh Mike that is so cool! 50% is excellent in the Asko and the Hotpoint did really good as well!

And leave it to Frigidaire to take the cake for best extraction, even in a little extractor. Thanks for posting the results they are very fun to read and study!

I'll have to do more tests myself on some other machines.
 
An amazing comparison.

Thank you for taking the time and using your expertise to do this.

I knew the Maytag wringers were the best of their class but did not realize they were that good, although they may not do as well with synthetics.

I know that if I leave items in an Easy Spindrier or ABC Spinner for an extended spin, they are almost dry enough to iron.

Mike A.
 
ABSOLUTELY brilliant and scientific and really interesting! Now, how about a scientific lint extraction test? I submit that it would be measured by two factors, lint quantity(I guess weight or volume, wet) extracted from the washer's lint filter, added to lint quantity from the extraction/drain process wherin one would have to measure the lint of a complete load in one of those steel lint "condom" traps at the end of the discharge hose= total lint removed from wash. This would solve the solid tub versus perforated tub question because it would be total lint extracted from wash. Of course, the same size load of towels would have to be used in all samples,and perhaps not brand new ones,and then down the line to each machine. I guess the conclusion would be the washer with the least combined discharge of lint in a filter and wash/rinse discharge catch would leave the most on the clothes. I guess it would be lint in ounces extracted per pound of laundry per machine, keeping the pounds of laundry and the laundry the same. Then, I wonder if we ran the test in the new machines without any lint filters to clean, how much lint they extract, all things being as equal as we can get them? The only problem I see is that a washer with really good water extraction would extract water from the lint well too, so measuring by wet weight of lint might not be accurate. Maybe lint is just a visual test on a clean sheet of white paper with only the abnormalites cited? Phil
 

Similar threads

S
Should I fix/put up with my Hoover PowerScrub Deluxe or buy a Rug Doctor Mighty Pro X3?
Replies
8
Views
56
neptunebob
neptunebob
M
Speed Queen Front Load AFN50 Washer Review - Long Post
Replies
15
Views
424
jetcone
jetcone
murando531
So..I splurged and bought a Maytag Bravos XL
Replies
19
Views
416
scrubflex
S
P
Question for Aussies on this board re: washer preferences down under
Replies
25
Views
201
ronhic
ronhic
peteski50
LG Complaints
Replies
2
Views
95
bingwsguy
B

Latest posts

Back
Top