Fix or Replace?

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blench

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Feb 11, 2019
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East Texas
We bought all new Whirlpool appliances when we built our house 7 years ago. We have not been overly impressed. The dishwasher (not me, but the electric one) had issues at about 1 year -- blowing thermal fuses. I would replace them and they would last about a year then blow out again. After about 4 replacements, I just replaced the whole unit.

Today the washer died. (Whirlpool Duet model WFW94HEXW2). It is throwing an error code F6E1 (communication error between MCU and CCU). I went through the troubleshooting and finally found that the MCU was burned up. I pulled the MCU and it definitely has visually blown components on the board.

Now... do I buy another MCU (about $300 at random google)? Or am I likely to find another cascading failure where the MCU died because of a motor problem?

Or do I just toss the whole thing and replace it entirely?
 
 
My aunt's Duet of the same model blew the motor board last year.  I diagnosed the problem, ordered the part from SearsPartsDirect.com (they paid so I don't recall the $ but it was less than now), uncle did the replacement when it arrived.

Part Number W10374126 --> WPW10374126

There are several new choices on eBay $169.99, $171.99, $189.95.  Also probably some used choices if you feel comfortable going that route.

Can also have it repaired via CorecentricSolutions.com $150 + shipping & taxes.
 
WP Duet, Fix Or Replace ?

Hi, How many loads a week has this machine washed a week on average and have you ever let it get smelly and or moldy ?

 

If it has done much more than 10 loads a week and or gotten fairly smelly and moldy it probably does not have that much more life in it.

 

In any case if you fix it either get the board rebuilt or buy a cheaper board, I would not spend $300 just for the part.

 

As a WP tech I have never seen a WP built DW go through 4 TFs in four years, are you sure the leads were replaced with the heaver leads when the first TF failed, if they are not replaced they will fail again and again.

 

John L.
 
No experience with Duets, but the motor control board failed on my Maytag Neptune a couple of years ago.  I bought a used one from eBay for around $70 and it was good as new. 

 

Service calls and new parts are very expensive.  Going that route makes it harder to justify repair.

 
 
This thread has me wondering if blown electrical components are ever caused by dirty power or line surges. If so, that might explain why some people have more problems than others.

When I got my Kenmore HE3t and matching dryer (over 15 years ago), it was suggested that they be plugged into surge protectors, so I did. Is that necessary, or do appliances have built in power protection components?
 
I have my Kenmore (LG) front loader plugged into a surge protector. At $20 for a decent surge protector, it's cheap insurance but you have to remember to replace them every 2-3 years, they do NOT last forever and do wear out from having to sustain spikes after so long. I simply use the kind that sit directly on top of the outlet.

I also have my Whirlpool DW and refrigerator on a surge protector since they both have control boards, and also have one on my Panasonic countertop micro. The only appliances I don't have on a surge protector are my range and dryer. The range has a control board of course, but is 240v/50A and would need surge protection at the breaker level, which is something I've considered implementing for the whole house eventually. The dryer is a BOL Kenmore (Whirlpool) and does not need a surge protector since it is old school and without control boards.
 
I forgot to add that yes, most appliances typically have surge protection built in but not in the way you'd think (protection of the machine's components). It's more of a fire prevention thing since a fire is bound to start if tens of even hundreds of thousands of amps pass through the tiny traces and board components. Fuses are in the first line of defense but onboard surge suppression a secondary means of defense, particularly with arcing/crossover.

Typically the onboard surge protection does its job (prevents a fire), but the surge protection circuit is almost always integrated in the very board it's "protecting", and the board is dead since the circuit is open. Computer power supplies, TVs, etc. are the same way.
 
combo52: We definitely don't do 10 loads a week. We are a 2 person household. No smell, but we do get flecks of black mold. We always leave the door/soap dispenser ajar to try to avoid this, but it appears to be happening anyway.

As to the DW: Yes, I replaced with the heavier/longer leads that came with the part. I believe there were other issues going on. The fuse blows got closer and closer together each time and by the end the wiring harness was clearly turning black in some places. Without any real diagnosis, I was guessing the main board was going bad. (See next item below)

---

Joe in philly: We have long wondered if dirty power was an issue. I *know* we have dirty power. I'm a computer nerd. I track how many drop-outs/spikes my UPS sees. It ranges from 2-10 a day. Some are predictable and happen the exact same time every day (like when the morning grid switching occurs). I have a whole house surge protector and surge protectors on all 120v appliances... but that won't help with the drop outs.

Since moving in I've had issues with: This washing machine; dishwasher; replaced HD in Tivo; replaced power supply on Tivo; replaced multiple computer HD; replaced main board in garage door opener. I'm probably forgetting a couple. (Tivo and computers and networking are now fully covered by UPS with no unexpected failures since. I've replaced a few drives since, but they were old enough that they were not unexpected.)

---

And doing a more exhaustive search, I do find the part for much less. I am seeing it for around $180 now... which is feeling like probably worth gambling on. I'd prefer to just put in an older Maytag/Speed Queen, but we are on a septic and I don't know how much water I want to be pushing through the system.
 
Superocd: Thanks for the explanation about surge protection. Now I am thinking I should have surge protectors on other appliances!

Blench: I am sorry to hear about all the items you have had to replace. It sounds like you’re doing everything you can do to prevent problems.
 
Not accurate

As a servicer I can tell you 100% the morning after a lightning storm my voicemail is lit up. I will agree that surges are very rare, (voltages north of 140v, or 260, but most boards fail due to brown outs, or when a line on the pole touches and sends 120v through the neutral. You wouldn’t believe how many people have the polarity reversed on their outlets.

Boards that live in a cool dry environment and get fed clean power will basically last forever. Or at least until the solder shrinks and cracks.
 
Appliance Board Failures

Polarity is either reversed or not and there are a few appliance boards that do not function properly with reversed polarity, mostly spark ignition boards on gas ranges, BUT it does not hurt the board, you just have to correct the polarity and the range will work properly.

 

I have never seen any big increase in calls after lighting storms and we get some really serious lighting here in summer storms.

 

Brown outs are very uncommon and will not hurt boards.

 

All appliance boards have all the surge protection they need built in, A surge protector is most unlikely to ever help, if you have a serious surge they are not going to help. A large whole house would be far better than a cheap plug in protector.

 

70% of appliance board are caused by combinations of excess heat, moisture or other liquids seeping into areas they should not be in, cheap membrane touch controls, high current causing solder connections to fail, cheap capacitors and other components that are just not durable enough.

 

John L.
 
Next time you guys talk to anyone who knows anything about electronics, ask them what would happen if you install a capacitor backwards.

Reverse polarity will kill a board , so will: low voltage, high voltage, dirty voltage, L to N, moisture, excess heat, ROACHES, and much more.
 
If you are talking DC supply sure.
If you are talking polarized capacitors, sure.
However you can't really install a non-polarized capacitor backwards, especially if the verry definition of "backwards" usually changes 50 or 60 times a second.
(Small, almost insignificant errors in the stated frequencys are part of normal operation of this system and can not be fully avoided, we ask for your understanding.)

Moisture will cause short circuits, duh.

Don't see how roaches can kill a soldered solid state piece of equipment though.
They might eat away at wires, but honestly, if a roach has enough time to eat through a wire, I would be more worried about why roaches a crawling through your electronics for so long without you either noticing or taking action.

Of course to high voltage kills components, that is the verry idea of a power surge.
How low voltage is supposed to harm equipment I don't really see though. Like, you mean that less power applied to it then it's supposed to handle breaks it?
Like, having a shelf that perfect well handles all the books sitting on it for years suddenly collapse after you picked up one of the books.
Sounds perfectly logical, sure...

"Dirty voltage" dosen't exist in DC supplies really.
I mean, it can, if the voltage suddenly and unexpectedly shoots up or reverses polarity.
Wait, fluctuating voltage that reverses polarity periodically, that sounds familiar, right?
(Yeah, of course hooking up a DC powered device to any AC supply will cause problems, but running an AC powered device on DC most likely will not work either...)
On AC it is indeed true that noise on a supply can reduce the lifetime of certain electrics.
That is why stereo systems, computers and actually a lot of normal appliances have line filters.
But as you know electronics so well you knew that already.

Heat of course can kill components.
Like, why do you think computers have elaborate systems designed to keep a component from overheating (aka CPU cooling).
Even some smartphones of today have heat pipes to spread the heat from the CPU over a bigger area to dissipate it more effectively.

And of course just holding the 2 sides of a supply together will cause a short circuit.

Like, your trying to tell me that the verry definition of a short circuit causes a short circuit situation and the resulting consequences/damage to arise as if I never visited 5th grade physics.

Actually, to make this even worse, no, just grabbing the life and neutral of a random socket and sticking them together will most likely result in basicly no damage to anything in the room.
The short circuit causes a huge current surge (I=U/R, U being your line voltage, R your wire resistance) turning all the wire basicly into a resistive heater for a verry short moment.
Then the circuit breaker cuts the connection to prevent a cable fire due to the current flow being absurdly much above the specification of the electrical system.

Grabbing a high voltage supply line and just smashing in into its counterpart causes havoc because of an entirely different effect.
You know that electricity always takes the path of lowest resistance.

If the supply line touches the other part of the supply line somewhere along its way, the path of lowest resistance is no longer down the line to the next traffo station as that traffo station is bigger load on the supply (aka a bigger resistance) then just two bare metal wires touching.
Thus, the power going to that transformer is suddenly cut.
Now, you still have the same supply voltage, but suddenly, the overall resistance of the entire system is cut significantly.
And we are not talking the AC of one house switching off, we are talking entire parts of a city suddenly no longer drawing power.
We know that I=U/R, and as U is consistent and R drops, I immediately jumps up.
It is like two people pushing against a piece of furniture that is about to fall over and suddenly one of the 2 just lets go and jumps back.
That person will be totally fine, but you suddenly have to endure twice the current flow UGH I ment weight of the furniture pushing and in turn, you get crushed.

Same if a power line touches ground.
Power suddenly no longer runs it's supposed path, overall load drops (a fault to ground is basically a 0 ohm path), current spikes.

If a lightning strikes a power line, the overall energy in the system suddenly spikes dramatically, thus current and voltage spike.

All of these things can mean insanely violent destruction of anything in the path of the current and not somehow protected by being separated by any component taking the brunt of the force (aka surge protector).

Our power grid is designed to adapt to changes in power demand pretty good and pretty fast.

It's actually kind of a fun amazing fact that there will always be the EXACT same amount of energy being put into the grid as is being needed at that verry moment.
It is always perfectly balanced.
How? Mostly huge moving masses in power plants. If demand increases, these flywheels physically slow down, pushing energy into the grid until the control systems can crank up the power out of what ever energy source that power plan uses.
That is why grid frequency always fluctuates ever so slightly.
Another fun fact there: The grid frequency is always 100% in sync with EVERY SINGLE generator connected to the entire grid.
That is why new power plants celebrate grid synchronization as the start of actual power production.

Oh, and, btw, I am studying engineering.

While not studying electrical engineering, I did pass my exam in the electrical engineering class I had to take last summer.

The exam was on the 19th of June last year, I prepared verry little for it and still passed with a 2.0 (1.0 would be the best, going down to 4.0 being the worst passing grade with at least 50% of the maximum achievable score being needed to obtain that), which is 0.8 grades above the average of the exam comparison group I was added to putting me in the top 36% of students in my exam group (13 of 36 exams in that group were a 2.0 or better).
That earned me 5 of my currently 50 ECTS credits towards my bachelor's degree.
Only 130 to go, yay.

So, before claiming profession in something, do a quick reality check of who you are claiming superiority against.

Really, being wrong is totally natural and as an adult one should be abled to stand up to that.

You won't believe how often I insist I am right only to realise that I totally misunderstand what ever the matter was and was the obviously wrong moron who made totally nonsensical arguments.

For real, daily would probably not even be a bad estimate when averaging those occurences over my lifetime.
 

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