FL Washers - Normal Cycle Warm Temp. Correlation to Soil Level

[niclonnic]

Here's an observation that I've made with front-load washing machines. It has to do with how exactly warm the "warm" temperature option is on a Normal cycle, and how it correlates with the soil level that is selected. This applies to the LG at my old house, as well as my current GE UltraFresh.

When I select the normal cycle and leave the washer on the default settings (warm temp and normal soil), the machine adds just a small amount of hot water to the load. Therefore, the water is more cold than warm on the "normal" soil level. Although I haven't tried this, I think it applies to the lighter soil options as well.

However, if I bump up the soil level to "heavy" or "extra heavy," more hot water enters the drum, thereby making the water warmer than it is compared to the "normal" setting.

I've also observed that this varying hot/cold ratio doesn't occur on any other cycle option. On these other cycles, the cold/hot ratio on "warm" becomes 50/50, regardless of soil level.

So, in essence:

• Normal Soil: Cold > Hot
• Heavy Soil: Cold = Hot

My best theory is that when the "heavy" soil option is selected, the washer allows more hot water than cold to enter, thereby leading to better removal of stains and dirt. Has anybody else noticed this with the "normal" cycle on their FL washers?

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Here's an observation that I've made with front-load washing machines. It has to do with how exactly warm the "warm" temperature option is on a Normal cycle, and how it correlates with the soil level that is selected. This applies to the LG at my old house, as well as my current GE UltraFresh.

When I select the normal cycle and leave the washer on the default settings (warm temp and normal soil), the machine adds just a small amount of hot water to the load. Therefore, the water is more cold than warm on the "normal" soil level. Although I haven't tried this, I think it applies to the lighter soil options as well.

However, if I bump up the soil level to "heavy" or "extra heavy," more hot water enters the drum, thereby making the water warmer than it is compared to the "normal" setting.

I've also observed that this varying hot/cold ratio doesn't occur on any other cycle option. On these other cycles, the cold/hot ratio on "warm" becomes 50/50, regardless of soil level.

So, in essence:

• Normal Soil: Cold > Hot
• Heavy Soil: Cold = Hot

My best theory is that when the "heavy" soil option is selected, the washer allows more hot water than cold to enter, thereby leading to better removal of stains and dirt. Has anybody else noticed this with the "normal" cycle on their FL washers?

I have the Kenmore Elite by LG, and I noticed that it will do cold water first, then hot water. If the pump cavitates due to fabric absorption, it will add more cold water. This is using the default normal/casual cycle with accelawash.

 

[henene4]

US energy rating regulations basically boil down to "Normal cycle as they come preset".
I still find it highly interesting very few people in the US know that in washer circles - here in the EU, it's been pretty much instantaneous knowledge after the Eco-rating cycle really became a thing in the mid 2000s.

So that very specific cycle - Normal, as it comes preset - is the only cycle used to rate energy usage.
So, only in that cycle, you need to hit certain usage targets.


Nothing stops a manufacturer to use any fill ratio they want on any other cycle and option combinations.

 

[launderess]

US energy rating regulations basically boil down to "Normal cycle as they come preset".
I still find it highly interesting very few people in the US know that in washer circles - here in the EU, it's been pretty much instantaneous knowledge after the Eco-rating cycle really became a thing in the mid 2000s.

So that very specific cycle - Normal, as it comes preset - is the only cycle used to rate energy usage.
So, only in that cycle, you need to hit certain usage targets.


Nothing stops a manufacturer to use any fill ratio they want on any other cycle and option combinations.

USA energy regulations state that "normal" cycle (or whatever one used for energy regulation purposes) must have fixed parameters that consumers cannot change. What would be the point of submitting a washer that used 100F degree water for "hot" when consumers could easily override that setting and choose a higher temperature.

This feeds into modern computer washers with motherboards having endless array of cycles. Everyone knows (or soon finds out) usually "Normal" is the last cycle they should choose depending upon what's being washed. Happily there is an extensive choice such as towels, bedding, shirts, denim and so forth that cover most of what might be laundered today.

 

[henene4]

That just can't be true.
Show me one LG model that has any cycle where all parameters are fixed - there are none.

That wasn't even true back in the day with timer machines - you could always change parameters.



But you are correct - label cycles are only good for labels.
That's true across any labeling system and kind of has to be.

 

[henene4]

Found it!

Not the actual documentation, but documentation calling back to it.

The default must be used except for those mentioned.
Soil level isn't one - thus that's the factor you can change to get out of "Eco" mode.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

I have not noticed this on my LG built Kenmore, though usually run either low soil on Normal, or Whites cycle. I will have to try this out. Warm usually fluctuates depending on load size. Larger size is cooler, leading me to believe that there is a certain amount of hot water the machine is willing to add for “preset” normal cycle. Temp is usually anywhere from 24-30°C on warm. TurboWash seemingly allows for slightly higher temp.

 

[henene4]

Keep in mind that this can vary WILDLY from model year to model year.
Heck, before WiFi-connectivity, you could get different behaviour from the same type of machine depending on software revision that was in production at the very day your machine was produced.

But warmer temps on shorter cycles makes sense.
Sinners circle and such.
Given that TurboWash - at least for the wash - appears to aim at lower water levels for higher detergent concentration, that would also still align with the fixed hot water amount theory.

 

[rich1953]

Found it!

Not the actual documentation, but documentation calling back to it.

The default must be used except for those mentioned.
Soil level isn't one - thus that's the factor you can change to get out of "Eco" mode.

Thanks, where is this from?

 

[henene4]

It's a DOE document - just something more general about the procedures and topics regarding them:

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/articles/rcw-tp-rfi

 

[gelaundry4ever]

I have not noticed this on my LG built Kenmore, though usually run either low soil on Normal, or Whites cycle. I will have to try this out. Warm usually fluctuates depending on load size. Larger size is cooler, leading me to believe that there is a certain amount of hot water the machine is willing to add for “preset” normal cycle. Temp is usually anywhere from 24-30°C on warm. TurboWash seemingly allows for slightly higher temp.

I think mine does the same. I have observed this.

 

[Chetlaham]

It's a DOE document - just something more general about the procedures and topics regarding them:

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/articles/rcw-tp-rfi

I can't thank you enough for finding this and posting it.

With that said, I give my criticism for a lot of flawed assumptions through out. Like the assumption of an 60*F cold inlet.

 

[henene4]

Most testing is somewhat removed from reality.
You gotta define some parameters that are standardized - what ever you choose, you'll be off in some way.

60F is 15C I think?
Honestly don't know what EU start parameters are set to, but it's either 15C or 20C/68F.
I think fridge testing in the US is even further removed from reality, with room temps in testing being set to north of 30C/86F.

But then there are always reasons to do so.
15C/60F intake water across the nation and all seasons is I think somewhat reasonably close to a possible average and it's an easy number to work with.
Fridges test at high room temps to allow for easy testing while also offsetting usage patterns you'd only be abled to test for with very high investment otherwise - mainly opening doors.


And with washers and dryers, there's the age old tale of testing in a few cycles - and all others using as much as they want.

And with soil removal testing that's so far out there, that even some of the worst tested washers will perform perfectly fine on daily laundry needs.
Or DWs that perform admirably in tests with specific soils and loading - but horribly fail in actual use, simply because racking and spraying is so hyper optimized for one specific condition and nothing else.



Testing is a great jumping off point, but certainly never tells the whole story...