FL'ers - tilted tubs vs. true horizontal tubs

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zipdang

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What are the opinions out there of tilted-tub front loaders versus true horizontal tubs? The two FL'ers that I've owned (a Bosch and a White-Westinghouse) were both true horizontals, and they worked great. I'm considering replacing my 2 year-old KitchenAid top loader with a new front loader. It seems like all the large capacity front loaders (Duet, HE3/4, Bosch Nexxt, etc.) all have tilted tubs, and only the small units still have horizontal tubs. What are the pros and cons of each? I seem to remember Asko touting that their horiztonal tub design was more reliable than Maytag's tilted tub design, which makes me wonder if there's greater stress on the bearings or something.

If tilted tubs are so great, how come the biggun' triple-loaders (Milnors, Wascomats) in laundromats don't have them?

Just curious.
 
I think the Asko website used to say something about Hoover abandoning their tilted-tub design because it was a nightmare.
 
Westinghouse was the last American front load washing machine to have a titled tub, and it was a disaster from a housewife's perspective. Nicknamed "the rope maker" laundry would emerge in a tangled mess that would take ages to set right. IIRC titled tub designs were then a nightmare in terms of design and repair, but could be wrong. For whatever reason European and US front loaders abandoned titled tub design long ago, until now.

In order to design large capacity front loaders to appeal to the US market, that have "easy access", the titled drum has made a return. This enables US domestic front loader with this feature to advertise ease in loading and unloading, something which in traditional front loaders seemed to turn Americans away in droves. Commercial laundromats solve the unloading and loading problem of large washers by raising them on platforms. Most platforms designed for home washers in the United States seem more for storage rather than supporting/stablising the washer.

Finally the jury is still out on the life span of tilted drum versus pure H-axis front loaders. IIRC tilted drums have slightly more stress on their rear bearings than their "pure" cousins, so it should be interesting to see how these machines hold up say over 10 or so years. Then again considering how many FriGeMore washers with traditional designs needed new bearings after just 3-5 years of use, could mean it all is relative.

Launderess
 
Comparing my new tilted tub HE3 to my not so old Frigidaire horizontal tub, I can definately say the tilted tub has more of a tendency to tangle clothes by comparison. The Frigidaire was indeed harder to load and unload, but was also far superior in lint and hair removal, and had much shorter cycle times. Overall, I don't care what Consumer's Reports says, my Kenmore HE3 doesn't come close to the cleaning performance of my Frigidaire. I wish I had kept it.
 
Bendix started it and nothing really has changed since then; front load washing requires lifting and dropping against the drum. With a tilted tub laundry naturally will move towards the rear of the tub, unless the machine is some how designed to compensate for this. Still it probably takes "longer" to wash in a tilted tub washer than a pure H-axis machine since no matter how well designed, the laundry still must be moved from the back to the front.

Titled tub machines seem also to have more issues with balancing loads. By some accounts LG washers are the worst for this, with Bosch in the middle. The Bosch Nexxt seems more inclined to be more hyper sensitive towards unbalanced loads (or perceived thereof) and use a lower spin speed, while LGs simply take ages to ramp up to spin if at all.

Launderess
 
Bendix started it and nothing really has changed since then; front load washing requires lifting and dropping against the drum. With a tilted tub laundry naturally will move towards the rear of the tub, unless the machine is some how designed to compensate for this. Still it probably takes "longer" to wash in a tilted tub washer than a pure H-axis machine since no matter how well designed, the laundry still must be moved from the back to the front.

Titled tub machines seem also to have more issues with balancing loads. By some accounts LG washers are the worst for this, with Bosch in the middle. The Bosch Nexxt seems more inclined to be more hyper sensitive towards unbalanced loads (or perceived thereof) and use a lower spin speed, while LGs simply take ages to ramp up to spin if at all.

Launderess
 
Both Zanussi and Hoover have had tilted FL machines on the market within the last couple of years so there is still something marketable about them
 
Inclined axis: more load on rear bearings; less on front bearings. Rear bearing also has to take a thrust load as well as a radial load. Probably has an easier time coming up to spin speed with small loads, because the load tends to accumulate toward the rear. Front seal less critical especially with low water levels. Less vertical pounding on front bearing since the slope of the rear wall of the drum deflects the load as it lifts and drops during rotation.

Horizontal axis: load distributed more evenly to front and rear bearings. Rear bearing does not have to take thrust load. Front seal more critical since water line may come up to seal level more often. More vertical pounding with small loads and more adjustment needed to get up to spin speed without offbalancing.

Washing action should be comparable as long as length of drum does not exceed diameter and inclination is not more than about 15 degrees, assuming all other factors equal including blade design. However, speed of rotation could be a factor; inclined axis drums should rotate more slowly to allow lift-and-drop action and avoid unproductive "carry-over."

Horizontal drums should be possible to handle slightly larger loads than inclined axis drums, because the critical variable is how high the load is relative to the axis itself. The higher the load line above the axis line, as measured when the drum is at rest, the less scrubbing action will occur and the more the load will tend to rotate with the drum. In the latter case, the washing action will be primarily due to water passing through the clothes rather than due to mixing & scrubbing action and flexing of fabric.

These design issues are not very far different from those related to concrete mixers and other revolving-drum materials handling equipment. In that regard, a concrete mixer of 3-1/2 cubic foot capacity (standard contractor's size) has to handle a load that weighs 525 lbs., and does so without complaints for ten to twenty years (typical useful life) or more. Therefore it's safe to say the design issues re. bearings and longevity have been solved for almost a century; the issues re. doors & seals have been solved since Bendix; and the issues re. speed of rotation relative to load characteristics have also been solved long ago.

The two issues that remain most open to innovation are the design of blading to handle different types of load composition (e.g. a load of white underpants & socks is radically different than a load of jeans & towels), and issues related to maximizing the cleaning ability of smaller quantities of water. These are the points on which you can expect to see noticeable advances in technology in the years ahead.

When I was a kid we had a dryer that had one paddle (as such) and two "bumps" (that resembled speed bumps running the length of the drum; and these three elements were not equally spaced (i.e. not at exact 1/3s of the circumference). When I first saw this I thought it was odd, but it quickly made sense because I figured the spacing would tend to counteract "carryover" of the load at a given rotation speed, and the combination of paddles and bumps would produce a combined rolling-over action with lift-and-drop mixing of the load. I suspect something similar would be useful in washers as well as dryers.
 
rinso--- Three cheers to you for defending your Frigidaire FL'er! I have a 2003 rear-console model and I like it a lot. The whole tilted tub thing just doesn't make sense to me. I can see how they'd make loading/unloading a little easier, but I don't know if that would balance the other issues they seem to create.
 
look close zipdang

all MILNOR Open Pocket Washer Extractors whether rigid or soft mounts have a 7 degree tilt to the cylinder.
 
I think the tilting is only very slight on most models and is designed for minimal water usage and to minimize possibilities of door leakages. The tilting is greatest on the Maytag Neptunes.
 
As far as the jumbo laundromat machines are concerned, the doors are proportionately smaller to the drum size. Therefore, they have a deeper pocket, so the sealed door remains above the water line, once again minimizing the possibilities of door leakages. So a tilted drum isn't really necessary. But on a household model, the doors can only be so small. However, if you are opposed to a tilted drum, a few like GE & Frigidaire do make true horizontal axis machines. You may just have to do a few door gasket changes throughout it's life. I hope this helps. Happy washing!
 
Some of the true H-axis washers (Asko, Danby, Miele, Speed Queen and Staber) have both stainless steel inner and outer tubs.

None of the new tilted-drum FLs have stainless steel outer tubs although all of them have stainless inner tubs.
 
Speed Queen's H-axis

I am very happy with my Speed Queen and its H-axis tub. The other nice thing is that both the inner and outer tubs are stainless. I agree with Launderess on the LG's I had a set for one month and I was never able to complete a cycle as it would never give a final spin. Thank goodness for my washer obsession and having a Maytag in the garage so I never was without a washer.

The capacity on the Speed Queen is in no way huge but definately a lot larger than my old Asko which was a great machine but once again my obsession with washers and dryers took over and was ready for a change.

I have also heard some of the bearing issues are due to the plastic outer tubs?

Anyways long story short I love my Speed Queens!

Jim
 
Thanks to everyone for your input. I have to say that I think I'm still partial to the pure h-axis design. I would have kept my Bosch if it hadn't been so small. Perhaps I will be able to find a FriGeMore variant, or even a Speed Queen FL when I'm ready to make the change.

Does anyone know if Miele is coming out with a larger capacity machine for the American market?
 
Launderess: I believe Miele wants $20,000 for their commercial pair. I think I saw them at appliance.com recently. And here I thought the new stainless KA pair were pricey at a measly $7,000. They're a freaking bargain!
 
Great Thread!

This is a great thread. I have enjoyed reading about the pro's and con's of the slanted drum. I have experienced both types of machines (small Frigidaire and now Kitchen Aid FL). I am happy to report that I really love the combination of the large door opening and the tilted drum. It really makes loading and unloading so much easier. Now that the weather is colder and I have to use my dryer (vs. hanging out the clothes), I really appreciate how user friendly the titled drum is compared the the true horozontial of my dryer. With the dryer, you either have to stick your head in to see if you got all the clothes or use your hand to feel. With the washer, you can just glance and know if you got all the clothes back.

I also have seen no evidence of twisting of the clothes.
 
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