The timing will be interesting. One way or another this issue is going to wind up before the SCOTUS, and currently the court is comprised of enough demagogues, and justices who have no clue what their job is, that they would likely claim gay people somehow aren't covered under the 14th Amendment. But given a few years and a few Obama nominations, I think the court would reach the opposite and correct conclusion.
Florida bans Gay marriage
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Sloppy Thinking, no...Outright Lying, YES...
I posted this link in another thread, which quickly got buried. You might want to read this! This Ahmanson creature (a damaged little rich boy with lots of "ISSUES") is one of the main financers of the Prop 8. His goal is nothing short of "the total integration of biblical law into our lives,” and for those of you who don't know what that might mean, it means this:
"The campaign to teach “intelligent design” in public school classrooms, the Republican takeover of the California Assembly, and the rollback of affirmative action in California—Ahmanson has been behind them all. He has also taken a special interest in anti-gay crusades. Ahmanson’s most controversial episode related to his funding of the religious empire of Rousas John Rushdoony, a radical evangelical theologian who advocated placing the United States under the control of a Christian theocracy that would mandate the stoning to death of homosexuals. With Prop 8 organizers claiming in a virtual mantra that their measure will not harm gays or take rights away from heterosexual Californians, Ahmanson has good reason to conceal his involvement in the campaign."
"Calling for the literal application of all 613 laws described in the Book of Leviticus, Rushdoony paid special attention to punishments. Instead of serving prison sentences, criminals would be sentenced to indentured servitude, whipped, sold into slavery, or executed. “God's government prevails,” Rushdoony wrote, “and His alternatives are clear-cut: either men and nations obey His laws, or God invokes the death penalty against them.” Those eligible on Rushdoony’s long list for execution included disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Let's repeat that last line, so that it sinks in:
Those eligible on Rushdoony’s long list for execution included disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
THIS is the poisoned mindset that must be addressed and neutralized before any equality can be hoped for! This is the "spiritual warfare" of Palin and her with-hunters. This is the "base" of the republican party who will be out for blood as soon as they can.
Any sort of talk of hope for equality for everyone must also include some way to neutralize the evil of these people, or else all "progress" is nullified.
Interesting to note...this Ahmanson's unattentive daddy was the man who founded Washinton Mutual...you know...that big, big bank that went under recently. Coincidence?
I posted this link in another thread, which quickly got buried. You might want to read this! This Ahmanson creature (a damaged little rich boy with lots of "ISSUES") is one of the main financers of the Prop 8. His goal is nothing short of "the total integration of biblical law into our lives,” and for those of you who don't know what that might mean, it means this:
"The campaign to teach “intelligent design” in public school classrooms, the Republican takeover of the California Assembly, and the rollback of affirmative action in California—Ahmanson has been behind them all. He has also taken a special interest in anti-gay crusades. Ahmanson’s most controversial episode related to his funding of the religious empire of Rousas John Rushdoony, a radical evangelical theologian who advocated placing the United States under the control of a Christian theocracy that would mandate the stoning to death of homosexuals. With Prop 8 organizers claiming in a virtual mantra that their measure will not harm gays or take rights away from heterosexual Californians, Ahmanson has good reason to conceal his involvement in the campaign."
"Calling for the literal application of all 613 laws described in the Book of Leviticus, Rushdoony paid special attention to punishments. Instead of serving prison sentences, criminals would be sentenced to indentured servitude, whipped, sold into slavery, or executed. “God's government prevails,” Rushdoony wrote, “and His alternatives are clear-cut: either men and nations obey His laws, or God invokes the death penalty against them.” Those eligible on Rushdoony’s long list for execution included disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Let's repeat that last line, so that it sinks in:
Those eligible on Rushdoony’s long list for execution included disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
THIS is the poisoned mindset that must be addressed and neutralized before any equality can be hoped for! This is the "spiritual warfare" of Palin and her with-hunters. This is the "base" of the republican party who will be out for blood as soon as they can.
Any sort of talk of hope for equality for everyone must also include some way to neutralize the evil of these people, or else all "progress" is nullified.
Interesting to note...this Ahmanson's unattentive daddy was the man who founded Washinton Mutual...you know...that big, big bank that went under recently. Coincidence?
Its clear we lost California because of the money and advertising of the Religious Right. I'm so pissed off at these people and their preposterous fairy tales I could just scream. On the positive side it looks like marriage equality will stand permanently in both Massachusetts and Connecticut. Iowa will be the next test sometime in December.
disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Hmmmm, 6 out of 8, damn, I guess I'll have to work harder if I want to score a perfect 8! lol.
disobedient children, unchaste women, apostates, blasphemers, practitioners of witchcraft, astrologers, adulterers, and, of course, anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Hmmmm, 6 out of 8, damn, I guess I'll have to work harder if I want to score a perfect 8! lol.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
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Ok so uhchaste women doesn't apply (or does it? ) care t
~anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Good one. Sodomy involves oral pleasures as well by definition. Guess the straight boys and girlz IZ GONNA BURN IN HELL TOO.
~anyone who engaged in “sodomy or homosexuality.”
Good one. Sodomy involves oral pleasures as well by definition. Guess the straight boys and girlz IZ GONNA BURN IN HELL TOO.
Robert, we haven't lost yet. Three separate lawsuits were filed yesterday against Prop 8, one of which has a very good chance before our state supreme court.
In their finding last May, the court determined the state's denial of marriage rights to same-sex couples infringes on the fundamental constitutional rights of these people. This finding and Prop 8 are mutually exclusive, and it's not the first time this situation has arisen:
"If a newly passed proposition conflicts with equal protection and/or due process, the latter wins. See, Mulkey v. Reitman(1966) 64 Cal.2d 529 [striking proposition passed by voter initiative to amend California Constitution to permit private race discrimination in the sale of housing]. Prop 8 would require the cooperation of the California government to enforce the violation of equal protection inherent in the proposition, by requiring the county clerks to refuse to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples, or by legal action filed by the proposition's proponents to request the Superior Court to issue an order invalidating homosexual marriages that took place prior to the passage of the proposition. In that conflict, equal protection will win, invalidating the proposition. If the Superior Court did not enjoin the enforcement of the proposition, we could expect either the Court of Appeal or the California Supreme Court to issue a writ of supersedeas to stay it."
Or in simple terms, this issue is far from over in California.
In their finding last May, the court determined the state's denial of marriage rights to same-sex couples infringes on the fundamental constitutional rights of these people. This finding and Prop 8 are mutually exclusive, and it's not the first time this situation has arisen:
"If a newly passed proposition conflicts with equal protection and/or due process, the latter wins. See, Mulkey v. Reitman(1966) 64 Cal.2d 529 [striking proposition passed by voter initiative to amend California Constitution to permit private race discrimination in the sale of housing]. Prop 8 would require the cooperation of the California government to enforce the violation of equal protection inherent in the proposition, by requiring the county clerks to refuse to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples, or by legal action filed by the proposition's proponents to request the Superior Court to issue an order invalidating homosexual marriages that took place prior to the passage of the proposition. In that conflict, equal protection will win, invalidating the proposition. If the Superior Court did not enjoin the enforcement of the proposition, we could expect either the Court of Appeal or the California Supreme Court to issue a writ of supersedeas to stay it."
Or in simple terms, this issue is far from over in California.
Has anyone checked out the news today? I saw late this morning there were some large protests going on and some people were getting ruffed up by the police. Not sure what was going on but it had to do with prop 8. On another note, when I was in CA a couple of weeks back I saw some of the commercials they were running on TV. I couldn't believe some of the crap they were saying. To protect the children. FROM WHAT? I witnessed 2 girls getting married on the beach and there were kids all around. No one seemed to care. Most people stood and watched while being quiet and proper. When it was over everybody and I mean everybody was clapping and cheering. I still don't understand how a civil union between 2 people of either sex or the same sex is going to hurt anybody. My wife and I had a civil union because we are of different religions and we decided from there and then religion would not interfere in our lives or love.
Jon
Jon
Here's what was going on.
My favorite sign:
"You Can't Amend Love"
www.latimes.com
My favorite sign:
"You Can't Amend Love"
Proposition 8 protests
www.latimes.com
Sloppy thinking . . .
Retro-man hit the nail on the head: the subject matter of the ads had nothing to do with the proposition. Regardless of who financed the campaign, it was very confusing and inappropriate.
In addition to Ahmanson, the Mormon church spent a lot of money on those ads. As I'm writing this, a large crowd has gathered in protest in front of the huge Mormon tabernacle on Santa Monica Boulevard in West LA. The protesters are shouting "shame, shame, shame." Indeed!
Retro-man hit the nail on the head: the subject matter of the ads had nothing to do with the proposition. Regardless of who financed the campaign, it was very confusing and inappropriate.
In addition to Ahmanson, the Mormon church spent a lot of money on those ads. As I'm writing this, a large crowd has gathered in protest in front of the huge Mormon tabernacle on Santa Monica Boulevard in West LA. The protesters are shouting "shame, shame, shame." Indeed!
On tonight's NBC News------
with Brian Williams, California's Prop. was being discussed and it appears that the Hispanic community did not lend as much support as originally thought.
What with the very heavy Black turnout in support of Obama, NBC reported that 70% of the Black voters supported Prop.8.
I would assume the numbers would be consistent with voters on the East Coast as well and possibly even higher in the "Bible Belt" of the Deep South of which Northern Florida is certainly a part---- ALTHOUGH NBC did not share those numbers.
with Brian Williams, California's Prop. was being discussed and it appears that the Hispanic community did not lend as much support as originally thought.
What with the very heavy Black turnout in support of Obama, NBC reported that 70% of the Black voters supported Prop.8.
I would assume the numbers would be consistent with voters on the East Coast as well and possibly even higher in the "Bible Belt" of the Deep South of which Northern Florida is certainly a part---- ALTHOUGH NBC did not share those numbers.
decodriveboy
Member
My diatribe --
It really pisses me off that a gay marriage issue was on the ballot at all, instead of a long-awaited property tax cut proposal many were hoping for. In typical fashion, it was removed at the last minute by some JUDGE before the measure could go before voters.
Each and every time Floridians try to get meaningful property tax relief, either some politician or judge takes it off under the guise that it's "misleading" or some other nonsense!
How much longer is this theft going to continue? High property taxes are crushing Florida's middle class. It is a huge contributing factor to our housing and economic meltdown here. Florida will not recover until the working-class get significant tax relief. Charlie Crist has done NOTHING, absolutely nothing, and our representatives continue to refuse the will of the people as we are being financially drained.
How is it that in VA, my brother's home is appraised at 3x what mine is, yet his taxes are 2/3 less? And public services and facilities remain excellently maintained everywhere!
In Florida, politicians start screaming about everything being cut if any more tax relief is given. WHERE IS ALL OUR MONEY BEING SPENT THEN?
My point: there is no reason in the world for a gay marriage issue to be on any constitutional amendment at all -- especially in these economic times. Legislating this primitive, ass-backwards amendment is nothing but a smokescreen to distract from the real crisis we are facing here.
Fellow Floridians -- your thoughts?
It really pisses me off that a gay marriage issue was on the ballot at all, instead of a long-awaited property tax cut proposal many were hoping for. In typical fashion, it was removed at the last minute by some JUDGE before the measure could go before voters.
Each and every time Floridians try to get meaningful property tax relief, either some politician or judge takes it off under the guise that it's "misleading" or some other nonsense!
How much longer is this theft going to continue? High property taxes are crushing Florida's middle class. It is a huge contributing factor to our housing and economic meltdown here. Florida will not recover until the working-class get significant tax relief. Charlie Crist has done NOTHING, absolutely nothing, and our representatives continue to refuse the will of the people as we are being financially drained.
How is it that in VA, my brother's home is appraised at 3x what mine is, yet his taxes are 2/3 less? And public services and facilities remain excellently maintained everywhere!
In Florida, politicians start screaming about everything being cut if any more tax relief is given. WHERE IS ALL OUR MONEY BEING SPENT THEN?
My point: there is no reason in the world for a gay marriage issue to be on any constitutional amendment at all -- especially in these economic times. Legislating this primitive, ass-backwards amendment is nothing but a smokescreen to distract from the real crisis we are facing here.
Fellow Floridians -- your thoughts?
As Hydralique was saying-------
outside a Mormon Tabernacle------
www.latimes.com
outside a Mormon Tabernacle------
Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
Gay-rights activists criticize the church for helping to collect millions to aid passage of ban on gay marriage.
www.latimes.com
Rioting is good--------
as others who have suffered the injustices of discrimination by all levels of government have long since known.
The torch has been passed to a new generation and I'm glad to see they are not going to take it anymore! The bad part is the risk.
as others who have suffered the injustices of discrimination by all levels of government have long since known.
The torch has been passed to a new generation and I'm glad to see they are not going to take it anymore! The bad part is the risk.
This one's different, Steve. This gay bashing came from a vote of the people, terrorized by a $35 million disinformation campaign waged by the LDS and the largest group of self-loathing gay people in the world today (the hierarchy and clergy of the Roman Catholic Church, and other fake christian religions).
Every day that passes, until our courts step in, will bring angrier protests. And if they don't step in, the Stonewall Riots will be forgotten in comparison.
Every day that passes, until our courts step in, will bring angrier protests. And if they don't step in, the Stonewall Riots will be forgotten in comparison.
~sudsshane
Well-known member
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Steve~
"What with the very heavy Black turnout in support of Obama, NBC reported that 70% of the Black voters supported Prop.8".
Homophobia is alive and well in the black community.
Thanks for confirming all along what I suspected. Here in Florida, a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage was approved as well and black and hispanic voters who supported
Obama voted for it overwhelmingly, 72%. Conservative Republican turnout in Florida was lower than the 2000 and 2004 campaigns
so they alone don't share the blame for this.
Obama
"What with the very heavy Black turnout in support of Obama, NBC reported that 70% of the Black voters supported Prop.8".
Homophobia is alive and well in the black community.
Thanks for confirming all along what I suspected. Here in Florida, a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage was approved as well and black and hispanic voters who supported
Obama voted for it overwhelmingly, 72%. Conservative Republican turnout in Florida was lower than the 2000 and 2004 campaigns
so they alone don't share the blame for this.
Obama
Shane
I have heard pretty much the same figures in local news etc regarding the voting on prop 8...it seems to confirm what I have been feeling...like I just had a big sh*t taken on me by the African American community... I'm miffed beyond words these last couple of days.
I have heard pretty much the same figures in local news etc regarding the voting on prop 8...it seems to confirm what I have been feeling...like I just had a big sh*t taken on me by the African American community... I'm miffed beyond words these last couple of days.
The whole situation is just pitiful . . .
What with the woeful amount of unfair discrimination that blacks have had to put up with over the years, one would think they'd be sensitive to discrimination against others. Obviously some are, but not the majority. Before the election I was really proud that our nation had finally overcome anti-black racism at least to the point of having a black presidential candidate from a major party, but I'll admit this turn of events has kind of taken the shine off everything. I'm not going to let it turn me into a racist, and I'd vote for Obama again in a hearbeat, but given the overwhelming support the gay community gave to him one would think the black community would have been gracious enough to return the favor. Guess not though.
As far as the Mormons and Catholics go, I'd love to see an investigation into their tax-exempt status. The IRS spent quite a bit of time investigating a local Episcopalian church simply because the minister had given a blatantly anti-war sermon before the 2004 elections. Ultimately, he and the church were exonerated, but the whole investigation was over one sermon which pales in comparison to the huge amount of money spent under the encouragement of churches in this campaign.
What with the woeful amount of unfair discrimination that blacks have had to put up with over the years, one would think they'd be sensitive to discrimination against others. Obviously some are, but not the majority. Before the election I was really proud that our nation had finally overcome anti-black racism at least to the point of having a black presidential candidate from a major party, but I'll admit this turn of events has kind of taken the shine off everything. I'm not going to let it turn me into a racist, and I'd vote for Obama again in a hearbeat, but given the overwhelming support the gay community gave to him one would think the black community would have been gracious enough to return the favor. Guess not though.
As far as the Mormons and Catholics go, I'd love to see an investigation into their tax-exempt status. The IRS spent quite a bit of time investigating a local Episcopalian church simply because the minister had given a blatantly anti-war sermon before the 2004 elections. Ultimately, he and the church were exonerated, but the whole investigation was over one sermon which pales in comparison to the huge amount of money spent under the encouragement of churches in this campaign.
I was not able to locate the text of the law that the anti-war minister had gotten in hot water over does any one know what the law is? It would be cool to investigate this.
Also does anyone know if there is a common large source of money for all anti-gay ballot measures in the USA?
I feel like doing something to unearth some vulnerability or weakness in a major source of financial backing or moral support. The key I think is to pick one weak animal from the heard and attack without mercy, sort of like something “Karl Rove” would do.
I would so like to see a high visibility anti-gay organization take some kind of demoralizing hit after their success in the battles in CA an FL but a target is needed.
Also does anyone know if there is a common large source of money for all anti-gay ballot measures in the USA?
I feel like doing something to unearth some vulnerability or weakness in a major source of financial backing or moral support. The key I think is to pick one weak animal from the heard and attack without mercy, sort of like something “Karl Rove” would do.
I would so like to see a high visibility anti-gay organization take some kind of demoralizing hit after their success in the battles in CA an FL but a target is needed.
From this mornings Washington Post:
From the article:
"Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand. "
The article failed to mention that blacks make up 6.7% of California's population, while Latinos/Hispanics make up 36%. The "bare majority" of whites who voted no on Prop 8 more than made up for the black vote.
If we go by the numbers, Prop 8 was passed by Latinos and Hispanics. But it's pointless to blame bigotry on racism: both are a result of ignorance and unjust hatred. The real culprit here was the "Yes on 8" disinformation campaign, in the churches and on TV, telling us our children are being threatened because two gay people wish to recite poetry to each other on a mountaintop.
"Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand. "
The article failed to mention that blacks make up 6.7% of California's population, while Latinos/Hispanics make up 36%. The "bare majority" of whites who voted no on Prop 8 more than made up for the black vote.
If we go by the numbers, Prop 8 was passed by Latinos and Hispanics. But it's pointless to blame bigotry on racism: both are a result of ignorance and unjust hatred. The real culprit here was the "Yes on 8" disinformation campaign, in the churches and on TV, telling us our children are being threatened because two gay people wish to recite poetry to each other on a mountaintop.
