For Better Or Worse It Is Mine - GE Mobile Maid

[vintagekitchen]

epoxy repair

Your repair job should hold up for a long time, about 6 months ago I found a 1970s frigidaire dishwasher in lovely Avacado Green, to complement my stove. There were holes rusted out in that thing that I could put my finger through all the way to the other side. 2 days spent mending the holes with marine epoxy, and it has been in use ever since with nary a leak, and I tend to run it at least once a day, lol. As little as you run yours, the repair should last years.

Congrats on a job well done.

 

[launderess]

Thank You Vintage Kitchen

This thread is now >2K posts. Must be come kind of record? *LOL*

So far things seem to be going well enough with this dishwasher. Since it holds so much only have to run the thing about once a week or so. While it can hold pots and pans prefer to do them in the sink to free up space for dishes, patters, etc. It isn't like they are going to come out totally clean (usually) anyway. However if am going to run the unit anyway later on will bung one or two in if there is room.

Contrary to what one has read about these units here in the group am sure there is some sort of timer or whatever control of heating during main wash. About mid or so way through that cycle there is some sort of "clang". This is well after the detergent cup has emptied so that cannot be the cause. Will take a good look at the schematic next time am under the bonnet.

Ran an acidic "cleaning" wash last week to deal with rust and other stain issues including the racks. This cleaned things up quite a bit including rust around the metal/pump area. Wanted to see what one was dealing with in terms of the racks and felt better to just clean up the whole thing that way rather than spot treat each bit on rack. Am going to purchase some of that "ReRack" paint and spend an afternoon sanding down and recoating areas that require attention.

 

[rp2813]

Almost 2,400 Views

But re: posts, L., you are on the verge of cracking 13K! 

 

YGG!

 

[alr2903]

Launderess, Congrats on a successful project!

 

[akronman]

Clang

What you're hearing is the spring for the soap cup resetting itself, so that once the load is done you can turn it right side up again.

After you hear the soap release, if you try to turn it up it won't stay. After that clang, about 2 increments on the timer, it's all reset to stay up when turned.

The various literature from our era of Mobile Maids occasionally reeferences the highest end models with self-resetting detergent cups, all other need you to turn it up yourself.

My MM was pushed aside for 2 months while I worked on a 70's model for a friend. Just last night I ran a load in the MM for the first time in a while, what a sound and what great results!

 

[combo52]

Clang

You are exactly correct Mark about the sound that Laundress is hearing.

 

[akronman]

John

I had that timer so far apart to prove it never heated the water, and then wire in relays to get heat, I'll never forget all the workings of that timer, both electro and mechanical-----That's why I asked Landeress about amperage. At 11 or 10 amps as opposed to mine listed at 6, I know she has a model that heats for at least the main wash.

And your advice on that motor helped---I now use this machine only once weekly. Oil in the bearings is a big must for that nearly non-serviceable motor.

But I tell you, folks----I have a built in KUDS23 series, and I have this 1966 Mobile Maid. There are major differences in these machine's design and size and racks and durability and noise and heat and steam for sure, but as far as how horridly dirty/burnt/crusty a pot or pan or dish you can put in and get clean results, they are equal.

 

[launderess]

So That Is What Causes Said Sound

Once again the AW gang sorts me out, thanks!

Don't know about oiling this motor, haven't the nerve to get at it so will leave that on the side for awhile. Only need to run the MM as said previously about once a week or so, hopefully that is not going to be "over use" of a vintage machine.

Yes, this unit cleans up with best of modern dishwasher offerings. Does so in less time as well. Cost of course is at more water and electricity usage. IMHO it is wasteful to heat the water for the pre-wash/rinses as well as the main wash today. Modern enzyme detergents work well enough to loosen and dissolve muck and soils at temps of just 120F. Given that all this water is only kept around for about four minutes than drained is even more wasteful.

Being as that may the results are staggering. This Mobile Maid certainly out cleans the Frigidaire built Kenmore 18" that it replaced. Totally yibble free dishes including inside cups and glasses.

Personally like that the detergent cup remains down until one resets. It helps drain away water inside and drying.

 

[washer111]

120ºF Washing

Is all well and good until you start loading stuff thats somewhat greasy into the dishwasher.
I can always tell by the look of the water in the sump after a cycle - since the grease is quite hard to remove, without a hot cycle.

I don't doubt Enzyme Ability, since I test it almost every day with dirty dishes. But I think these dishwashers had both short washes, uninsulated tanks and not "the best" cleaning ability - so getting as much oomph as possibly was one way of ensuring good results.

 

[launderess]

Ok,

Was only speaking to the pre-wash or rinse, not the main wash cycle which of course should be heated IMHO.

Understand and appreciate why General Electric and other makers of dishwashers at the time designed things as they did, however today things could be a bit different.

In the grand scheme of things the 600watt heater on the MM is not going to raise water temps that much given the four minute pre-wash or rinse cycle. Even if incoming water was 140F it would likely only reach 143F by the end. This takes into account my model does not flush the sump before filling, so there is already cold water sitting inside the hoses and sump. Then the insulated tub and cold dishes are going to cool the water even further. At best the heater is helping the machine to maintain water temp by taking some of the chill off.

 

[launderess]

Well It Was Fun While It Lasted

While running a load tonight after the machine emptied the main wash water and then filled for the first rinse, nothing. One can hear a humming sound but the pump and motor will not engage. Tried turning the timer dial to various cycles and the same. Machine will fill to a point, but stops once the overfill sensors (?) kick in.

Noticed a small green pool of liquid on the floor when moved the machine to the sink from it's cubby. Thought it was leaking rinse agent, but now will have to investigate further. Oh well at least the dishes are clean, now to take everything out, rinse, dry and put away. Once the machine cools will have no choice but to turn the thing over to dump out the water. Then can get underneath to see what the problem could be.

Oh well it was nice while it lasted.

 

[launderess]

Something Is Rotten In Denmark

And it isn't their cheese! *LOL*

After removing dishes, drying and putting away proceeded to bail out most of the water. That got old fast so took a quick walk to the store/24 since it was raining earlier and didn't get a chance. When on came home hooked up the unit on a chance and it powered up.

Let the machine drain out the balance of the water and then reset to "China/Crystal" to see if the thing would complete a total cycle. No such luck. Just after the main wash the thing stopped just as the timer cued the motor to start draining. You can hear the relay click and then a humming sound. Quickly unplugged the unit and left it alone.

According to my service manual (Hotpoint top loading dishwashers) the cause for dishwasher not completing a cycle is either the timer (replace) or something is causing a trip overload. Since the timer does advance through cycles one feels something is causing this machine to trip out. Am afraid that is above my capabilities to diagnose.

*Help*!

 

[jkbff]

Not that I have the answer, here is my $.02

If you advance the timer back to start, will it pump the water that is already in the machine? If it is stopping when the drain solenoid is kicking in, Maybe the drain solenoid is bad? But if that were the case, if its like my old KDS58, the water would continue to pump around the tank while the solenoid stayed shut.. Unless your unit has a separate drain pump?

Did you jinx yourself when you were talking about waiting to oil the motor? Would the green pool be a bushing letting its oil go?

If I understand these old units like I think I somewhat do, there aren't relays but the clicking you hear is the actual solenoids clicking in and out because the timer acts as the relay?

Like I said, I probably don't hold the answer but at least would like to assist in following a troubleshooting path.

Good luck!

 

[akronman]

Check this out

If your underside looks like this, then there are no solenoids for draining, instead it's a reversing motor with a relay. And cheap sleeve bearings in need of oil.

Your washer does a few rinses and drains, then the main long wash, then the motor won't do the next drain? Likely the bearings need lube and are overheating during that long long wash. Moments later, when it calls to reverse for draining, instead it takes too much to start the motor and the overload protection kicks in. I bet if you just unplugged and let is sit for 2 hours, it would finish the cycle. But you are wearing out the bearing.

The good news: All you need to do is remove those 4 bolts at the bottom cover of the motor, the bearing is right inside the very bottom. I cleaned the shaft, oiled it, cleaned the bearing hole, oiled it, re-assembled and now it runs thru the entire cycle with no problem. Tons easier than removing the motor from the washer.

First pic is underside of the machine, second pic is inside the base of the motor. Wipe it and the shaft clean, relube, see what happens, AND REPORT BACK. These are fun loud machines that wash well, but the motor and bearing ain't the best.

 

[launderess]

Thanks Akroman

Yes, under the bonnet my DW is same as yours shown above. That is the GE motor written "WD26x56" and dated "66" which one assumes means 1966. Just to be on the safe side have found a GE WD26x63 at a very good price. Parma Parts (contacted about other parts) tells me it will work with my machine so if worse comes to the worse am sorted new motor wise.

 

[combo52]

Sizing Motor In a 1966 Axial-Flow GE DW

Mark is probably correct about the motor sizing due to lubrication failure, over the years we ran into several GE DWs with this style pump where all we had was take them completely apart and oil them with turbine oil and away they went. The problem with just taking the bottom of the motor off is you really need to oil the top bearing as well, although you could probably get oil into the top bearing at this point if you turn the machine on its top and let it sit way for a few days while you let some oil soak in.

This design GE pump and motor was only used for about 5 years with 1966 being the last full year it was used. This design was a pain in the neck to repair and from the beginning was expensive to fix, when GE came out with the shaded pole pump and motor in 1967 it was a huge improvement in repairablity and the DWs also washed much better, but they still had plenty of pump and motor problems, it was just easier to deal with them.

John L.

 

[launderess]

Thanks Combo52

Maybe will give your suggestion a try, turning the unit upside down that is.

Also have a new worry.

When replacing the lower motor cover two of he bolts had nuts and that was fine. Two others did not and now cannot tighten. Thought they perhaps fell to the bottom/around the DW but nothing. Also do not remember hearing anything "fall" onto anything when the bolts were loosened and unscrewed. The motor bottom is sung against due to the two bolts fastened with bolt, but what do I do now.

Thought perhaps the things fell inside the motor but that isn't possible don't think and besides saw nothing when the thing was open.

Before oiling took a look inside the lower motor and it is rather clean as a whistle. A bit of dust yes but no rust or anything like that. Just copper and "steel" colors as it were. The lower "cup" was dry as the state of California so put few drops of turbine oil. Also did a little of the same to the spindle (it too had no rust and was just a dark "steel" color. Was hard to move things about as one did not disconnect motor connections so there were mobility limits obviously. Also did not want to move that old wiring about too much in case it was brittle and would crack.

 

[akronman]

nuts

Yeah, nuts about those nuts, I agree. Here's a pic of the top of the motor, so you can see what may have happened or know where to try skinny fingers to find the 2 lost nuts.

Turn it again on it's side, turn it all the way upside down? Shake it a bit, try turning the motor by hand or screwdriver to see if anything is binding. Turnuing the motor and shaking the machine while entirely upside down is a hell of a chore but maybe entirely successful! you gotta get us video of that as a lesson to all about holding their nuts! (Did I just jump over to the Dirty Laundry section?)

The dry bearing you described is very likely the origianl guilty culprit in the motor overheating, glad you got that, but now I fear a new problem of lost nuts is an issue.

Also, if you do end up entirely removing the motor to see where the nuts are, please get some oil on the top bearing. It's hidden just under that plastic disc surrounding the shaft.

Keep us posted for sure, and actually removing the entire motor is not too bad a task, you may find you are quite capable. Ask here before you do, and I can throw some advice and some thread links your way.

You seem closer and closer to finishing this project and providing for yourself a great old-style loud washer, fun and clean results----

Mark

 

[launderess]

Ran the DW This Morning To "Run In The Oil"

As it was and on "China/Crystal" it completed the cycle without any problems. Cannot say things were *that* much quieter if at all, but at least the thing didn't stop after one or two cycles, so that is something anyway.

Before the oiling and after the second time the motor refused to cooperate, plugging in whilst engaged in a cycle caused a loud screeching sound. At once pulled the plug and let the thing alone as noted above. After a period of waiting it powered up and drained after which we disconnected from water and power to leave it in peace until yesterday's oiling mission.

Have been pouring over the archives of the group and yes, have seen Soberleaf's pictures of his MM renovation. What one cannot understand is where or how nuts could have slid into the motor if indeed they are there. With the unit laid on it's side the loose bolts "should" have dropped to the bottom as two indeed did once free. If the darn things are on "top" of the motor then nothing will suffice but taking the thing out and apart. That is something one is *NOT* looking forward.

Getting the motor out is pretty straight forward, at least according to my Hotpoint toploader service manual. Just really don't want to mess with the seals and in particular anything to do with the pump as so many parts are NLA. Certainly am *NOT* going to do anything involving touching the cone shaped impeller unless or until one finds a replacement. Given those things are a rare as finding a virgin at a prison rodeo it may be some time (if ever) before one digs into the current motor.

My plan is once the new WD26X63 motor arrives to begin building a new "spare" pump system from the ground up. This would be my "back-up" if and when either the current motor goes and or the pump system. Some of the parts for the pump assembly came with that haul of vintage Hotpoint parts one listed in another thread. Finding the balance is going to be a challenge and largely a waiting game to see what surfaces in future.

It is really a shame this unit uses the "1966" pump system instead of the later version GE switched to by the late 1960's and still today. Those pumps can be found easily and often going cheap.

May take Combo's suggestion and turn the unit over and allow it to stand for a day or so to "oil" the upper bearing via gravity. But then wouldn't one have to replace the oil in lower bearing cup? I mean won't most of it end up going elsewhere with this maneuver?

Shaking the motor? Not possible. Once bolted into place the thing is solid and won't budge. You can shake it once it is free of the tub, but that is another matter.

Again thank you for all the suggestions and assistance gang. This DW is like having a child, every day it's something new that is wanting. Am noticing one or two new small specks of rust on the inner tub. Will clean, sand and apply some "ReRack" paint to seal off.

From what one has been reading about rust if the stuff is not "converted" or better yet totally removed covering it with various products merely hides things for awhile. Like a cancer the rust will continue to grow (perhaps more slowly)and sooner or later re-emerge.

 

[akronman]

Shake

Oh heck, if it's upside down, shake the whole darn machine, not just the motor!