Frigidaire Tub Change

[joelippard]

Well guys, it's been officially determined that the tub is bad in my Rapidry 1000. The achilles heel of this solid tub has done it in -- the tub plug, it was completely rotten and allowed the cast iron filings to clump together, this explains the poor balancing and vibration issues on this machine.

Fortunately, due to the kindness of other club members I have a donor machine with a good tub. The issues surrounding this are definetly not new ones. The tub nut is stuck on the donor machine and I've drowned it in PB Blaster. I'm trying to loosen it with channel locks and a rubber mallet to no avail. It should also be noted that this tub nut lacks the locking tab to hold the nut in place. Second issue, the agitator nut will not release on the Rapidry machine. The keyway on the shaft is missing as it turns all the way thru with the jetcone turning and possible wrinkling to the bellows. I put a pair of locking pliers on the agitate shaft and let it ride against the upper pump housing, it still turned thru.

I spent about 5 hours on this yesterday and am stopped in my tracks by these maladies. Today, I'm tired, sore, and disheartened with the process so I must rest until I feel like working on it again. Think I'm going to have to call my Dad in to help. I'd like to think I'm still strong and independent at 35 -- I never like asking for help...

Here are the pictures of where I'm currently at in the process.

 

[joelippard]

 

[soberleaf]

i am going to watch your

post here closely and take lots of notes as i am trying to learn about these machines having just bought one. the pics you posted so far are very informative to me. please keep adding to this post as you make progress or e mail me directly. it's very interesting! good luck!

 

[soberleaf]

oh yes

what exactly is the "tub plug"?

 

[joelippard]

what exactly is the "tub plug"?

If you look at photo one, the tub plug is the black thing to the right on the tub top, this is the tub's balance ring and it contains fillings that are made of cast iron. When the plug does not seal perfectly any longer moisture can enter and cause the filings to clump, this is what happened on my machine I suspect many years ago... You will see in the second photo a sink stopper in place of the tub plug that was rotten when I removed it. I was able to remove some of the filings and insert BB's in an attempt to repair the existing tub but in this case the filing are clumped up so badly this was to no avail.

I wouldn't wish a project like this on anyone. I'm soaking the tub nut in PB Blaster overnight. If that damn thing doesn't come off in the morning I'm going to buy a torch and heat it's ass up!

For anyone who has one of these machines you should seal the plug off using a RTV seal or Caulk, you can do this without removing the top of the machine, just rotate the tub until the plug is front center and push back on the tub to fully expose and seal the plug. The seal should be checked at least yearly and reapplied as needed.

 

[joelippard]

Also Soberleaf...

if you really want to learn more about these machines, read the manual for it located off the main page, there's a downloadable pdf file for the Rollermatic's. It's also facinating to remove the small service panel on the back and watch the mechanism doing it's thing thru the cycles.

 

[soberleaf]

i think i have that one

i downloaded the one "history of the rollermatic" when i first got this washer two weeks ago. i also read thru all the old posts on rollermatics. i still have the back panel off and the washer is in my living room (I don't have a normal house with 26 dishwashers scattered around but who cares) and i watch it very closely whenever i run it. when i first got it i took off the top and flipped it upside down and did a thorough cleaning of all transmission parts and oiled the motor. it runs great but i still have a lot to learn.

the tub ring i knew nothing about, seems odd that small part could cause you so much problem. i will definately seal mine in, seems like an easy fix.

and as i said i will watch your posts closely for any new pics and info on your tub exchange. hope you get it!

 

[swestoyz]

May be a silly question Joe - but what kind of wrench are you using to try and remove the tub nut? When you resort to heat, remember to use just a little bit at a time.

Ben

 

[joelippard]

what kind of wrench are you using to try and remove the tub

I've tried several things. I have bought a total of 3 wrenches now and they don't fit properly -- all of them will go back to the store. The problem is finding a wrench that is right diameter (which I have found out is 1 1/2 inches) that is short enough to fit down in the tub. I have been using channel locks and hitting them with a rubber mallet. I bought a torch only to find that it won't stay lit long being held upside down and it will not fit into the tub sideways either. I also discovered this morning on the rapidry machine that there is water sitting on top of the pump housing.

I'm more disgusted today than I was yesterday. All I wanted to do was change a tub and I had 3 days to do it in. I'm not so sure that I have time, or the patience for this.

 

[swestoyz]

Right tool for the job

The tub nut is virtually impossible to remove with the correct style of wrench. Since we no longer can walk down to our local Frigidaire dealers to get the tub nut wrench, we need to seek alternatives.

Striking or Slugging wrenches will do this job. I bought the Grainger stock number 1APM9 - a 1 1/2 Proto slugging wrench. While pricey, the Proto wrench got the job done. Fits inside the tub, and you smack it with a rubber mallet. Just make sure to line the tub with towels so you don't chip the porcelain finish. Even though I now have a Frigidaire tub nut wrench I prefer to use the Proto one. It has more meat and really can get a good hit on the nut due to the sheer weight of the wrench (over 1" thick cast iron).

I feel your pain. Keep working your alternatives and sooner or later you'll come out victorious. If I were in your shoes I'd order the wrench, walk away until it comes, then give it another try. A fresh mind with a fresh tool will come to the conlusion better than a fatigued one.

Good luck,

Ben

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1APM9

 

[jetcone]

Having been here many many times

Ben is on the right track Joe!

What you need is Impact not muscle. So you need to strike and not pull , a channel lock is only good for water hoses, order the impact wrench, and take a break til it arrives.

Also on the agitate shaft, I'd use procedure Jetcone#19:

The whole shaft and jetcones can be pulled out the top of the machine if you loosen and remove the agitate foot nut at the bottom of the tranny. Swing the agitate arm out of the way and you can pull or tap the whole shebang out of the tub.

Before pulling the whole assembly out you should try to use procedure Jetcone#18:

You should try to save the bellows by lifting the shaft high enough that you can block the agitator up and get a fine flat blade screw driver under there to release the bellows clamps. Then draw the bellows away from the tub lip and VOILA you can pull the sucker up and out of the machine.

Now two points to add, you may have already ripped the bellows by turning the shaft so you can skip Jet#18 and if the bronze bearing is torn IE the tangs that keep the agitate shaft from turning then your mechanism is toast and you will need to tap lightly the agitate shaft out of the top (Jet#19). I say LIGHTLY as the agitate shaft is made of SOFT steel! You will pean the end if you hit too hard and then the shaft won't fit up the spin tube.

Its good you found another tub.
Have fun thats what its all about!
Jet

 

[gyrafoam]

A large "worm-gear" clamp is another way to get those bellows-clamps off and on again.

 

[joelippard]

Thanks guys for your advice

I have a Grainger store close to me, but that wrench will have to wait until I can afford it. My Dad will come help me in about 2 weeks so I think I will just leave it until then. My level of aggrivation grows by the hour.

Why would I have water on the top of the pump now? I guess that's messed up now too.

 

[soberleaf]

i would think if there is water on top of the pump

it is dripping down from somewhere above?! does the pump shaft come out of the top of the pump like on my rollermatic? the motor is above it. a leaky pump seal could account for it if that is the case. if the pump shaft exits thru the bottom, obviously no way. i would imagine it is the same design as mine come to think of it. i was thinkin you had a 1-18 which i know nothing about, but you have a rollermtic so i would guess either leaky seal or leak from above.

 

[joelippard]

Water

actually was coming out of the top where the shaft enters the pump. I think the seal has been compromised from stress on the mechanism in trying to remove the agitator nut. I'm hoping it will right itself after I get everything put back together and get the machine running again, if not I'll be working on the pump too.

I can see this is going to be a drawn out process. I'll be addressing every issue with the machine until it's perfect.

I'm feeling better about the repairs. I was so dead set on getting it all done in 2 days. I'm a hard ass in the respect that I like things done both quickly, and perfectly.
I made progress yesterday on parting out the items I'll be keeping from the donor machine.

I think a guy has the wrench I need for the tub and is going to give it to me, so we'll see what comes next.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Once you get the correct wrench you will be able to remove that nut. A rubber mallet wont do the trick, you will need to carefully use a regular hardened steel mallet. Just be careful not to strike the new tub with it by accident and chip the porcelain.

 

[swestoyz]

A rubber mallet wont do the trick

I must have been lucky - or just had a machine with little use! ;-)

Ben

 

[joelippard]

Once again

Thank you to all of you guys for your tips and advice. I very well may need more of it until this is resolved. I'm supposed to be getting a free wrench tomorrow, and Dad will come over in a few weeks -- we'll see how it goes. I'm going ahead and clean and seal the plug in the new tub tomorrow. It looks like it possibly was sealed from the factory if you notice the "stuff" around it in the picture

 

[soberleaf]

you can get a pump seal

for that pump from larry at modern parts house in parma, ohio. i just bought one from him yesterday, think he has more left.

i also bought 2 water bellows for that machine and he has 2 or 3 left.

that's about all he had for rollermatics.
i would call him! he's on the web under modern parts house

 

[joelippard]

thanks soberleaf

got myself some new parts on the way

 

[norfolksouthern]

Are 1-18 parts available?

I am wondering about the availability of some water and oil bellows for a 1-18. Are there some places like this that still have them?

NorfolkSouthern

 

[bobbyderegis]

Joe:
I have to comment on your first post on having to call your Dad in to help, and you are 35. I always called my Dad to help when I got stuck on any machine. He became a Maytag expert without ever wanting to become one. There was never a problem he couldn't solve, and when he got stumped, he knew who to ask. He passed away six years ago and I miss him every day. It's a blessing to be able to call on your Dad. Be proud and be grateful to have him! Good luck on the Frigidaire.
Bobby in Boston

 

[joelippard]

Re;

Norfolksouthern, Larry told me he didn't have any 1-18 bellows left.

Bobby, thank you for your comments. I have a bit more perspective now. I was so PO'd last weekend. Dad and I haven't worked on a project in years. I think there will be some fun elements to it when we get together to work. Dad always seemed to find a way when I was growing up. I hope he hasn't lost the touch

 

[soberleaf]

how is the rollermatic tub change coming along?

i am at the same point with my 1-18. i have looked all over for some type of closed end wrench but to no avail, at least in a 1 and 1/2 inch size that will fit inside the tub. i intend to order the one listed above and be done with it.

norfolk southern, i did find water bellows for the 1-18 from parts select on the web, and a water seal also! i will look up those part numbers and send them to you.

and joelipard please keep us posted, i for one am very interested in your resotation process!

 

[joelippard]

Hey guys

I'm still where I was on this project. I've been pretty busy and I'm waiting on the guy to bring me the wrench and Dad was a little sick last week. Once I get the wrench and we get the time, progress will resume. I've got another little project on the heels of this one, but much less intense and more fun. Pics will be forthcoming one day

 

[joelippard]

An Update

I finally got the wrench I needed and with four light taps of the rubber mallet the tub nut came loose. Here are the pictures of the cleaned new tub with the tub plug sealed up and ready to be installed. A picture of the donor machine and it's water container. This water container looks like new, I'm surprised given rustyness of the cabinet. Now I'm in the process of parting out the donor machine. I'll remove the mechanism and the water container this week and the carcass will go to the dump.

 

[joelippard]

 

[joelippard]

 

[gyrafoam]

Remove the spin-shaft seal (black rubber). Then remove screws in spin-shaft retainer. Mechanism should be ready to drop right out through the bottom, so be sure you brace it!

 

[joelippard]

More progress today

Today at lunch I got the mechanism out, removed the water container and hauled off the junk to the recycle center. Now I can begin to clean my basement up a bit and get ready for putting the new tub in...