Front load machines add water at the door?

[mieleforme]

I was wondering if anyone could answer something that has been bugging me for some time now. Front load machines add water to the drum via the detergent dispenser and also directly into the drum at the door. But why? Why do front load washers also add water to the tub at the door, often over the glass. I was thinking this was to help flush the door seal and help keep it clean but wouldn’t that just happen with normal use? I don’t know it has to have some purpose. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[laundromat]

My Frigemore fills for the main wash,first and third rinses through the dispenser and directly sprays through an opening at the top of the rubber boot.For the second rinse,it fills from under the perforated drum.I think it is to help mix the detergent, bleach,and softener separately but thoroughly.My old Magic Chef (Philco of Italy)filled through the dispenser but not directly onto the clothes and made the powdered detergent sink down into the sump instead of mixing thoroughly.I wound up pouring the detergent directly onto the clothes.I sometimes (when using a powdered detergent) still do pour the detergent right onto the clothes to be sure the right amount is used.

 

[ronhic]

It all depends....

....on the machine.

Most machines sold in Australia go 'drawer to drum' with only a couple, such as Bosch or Siemens, sending it over the door.

There are a couple of ways that manufacturers have stopped or minimised detergent loss tthrough the sump.

- Using a recirculation jet system (Zanussi/Electrolux)
- a ball device to isolate

Sometimes a 'short' drawer can give the impression that a machine is filling over the door too. Longer detergent drawers discharge further along the drum of the machine (Miele, European Electrolux/Zanussi, older Hoover) whilst shorter drawers (say less that 8") discharge just inside the drum, nearer the door which may give the impression of 'filling over the door'

 

[spiralator60]

Front Load Machines

Some machines saturate the load in the drum from the front over the glass, as you have noticed. There are some machines that add water from the detergent dispenser at the back of the drum also - this is the case with my machine, an LG.

With front loading washers using less water than in the past, designers have been coming up with different fill methods to compensate for this, and still maintain some level of cleaning ability. Part of this was mentioned by Laundromat, involving the mixing of detergents and additives from the dispenser.

There are often problems with over-foaming, and each manufacturer has its own way of addressing the matter of knocking down suds in the drum. Some makes position the water inlet to distribute water down the front of the door, or from another direction into the cylinder.

The matter of flushing the door seal that you mention generally makes sense. However, this may not always be the case with the way a machine is designed and constructed, hence the different fill methods.

 

[mieleforme]

Well i'm still wondering about the whole thing. Miele told me it was to show customers water was actually going into the drum. He said people thought there was a problem with there machines because of such a low water level. That was a stupid ass answer to me, surely people who pay two grand for a machine can figurer out there is water in there. Besides many machines do this, my neptune does and the door is solid, couldn't see water if I wanted to.

Dear Miele customer service department,
Train your employees to be able to answer odd-ball questions about your products. Your typical customers are of a more discerning and eccentric group and want to know EVERYTHING about your products. Or, just transfer me to an engineer next time

 

[favorit]

indeed that's the very reason

It's a very old story. Back in the 80ies I went to a hotel/catering machinery exibition. There was a Miele Professional stand and I started making questions to a salesman. I said their washers are very accurate to use the right amount of water, no matter it's a towel load or a poly one. He answered that many people were still used to old style commercial machines that fill up to half door even in the main wash. These people made complaints to their customer care. So they started a training campaign to shorten the learning curve of new users.

Anyway my 11 y.o. W844 doesn't flush the door, while my brother W3264 (3 y.o.) does. IMO another reason is cause suds tend to stick in the gap between glass and rubber boot, even in those stoneage models that used plenty of water (and of rinses) to half door (check Utube vids)
This new system gives also a visual clue that the machine actually rinses well

 

[logixx]

True, it is indeed to show people that water is entering the washer. The jet can actually even be turned off on Miele washers.

Another benefit is that it helps to saturate the load faster. I think Whirlpool (and perhaps other manufacturers, too) uses the Direct Inject nozzle to spray fresh rinse water over the laundry while the drum is slowing down from spin.

 

[joe_in_philly]

I believe Whirlpool has a patent on the spin-fill method. I remember when the duet first came out, there was a link to an interview floating around where a whirlpool engineer talked about it. While some do fill as the drum slows from a spin, the Whirlpool maintains a slow spin, just enough to keep the load pressed against the side of the drum. My Whirlpool duet cousin, a Kenmore HE3t, maintains a steady, slow spin while it fills for the rinses. It is supposed to pull the fresh rinse water though the load for better rinsing.

I don't know if this is it, but the link at the bottom sounds similar how my washer works, with the exception of it then tumbling after the fill.

Another interesting link:

METHOD FOR RINSING FABRIC IN A WASHER AND WASHER ADAPTED TO CARRY OUT THIS METHOD - Patent application

Another benefit of filling by spraying the water into the middle of the load, is that large loads are saturated faster than the scoop and shower method. Whirlpool now describes it as:

Direct Inject Wash System

Penetrates stains and pretreats soils with a concentrated burst of detergent virtually eliminating the need to pretreat. The wash cycle begins only after the entire load has been treated.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5191668.html

 

[favorit]

D.I.W.S. ..... aka D.E.S.

Bauknecht (WP's german factory where Duets are made) used (still uses ?) this very "Direkt Einspuel System" on their machine. I have never heard about it on italian made Whirlpool frontloaders (24" models)

 

[rp2813]

I miss the direct inject action of my Duet. For regular fill cycles there would sometimes be water hitting the glass, but not always. Same for my current Affinity washer. But the Affinity is a total POS where rinsing is concerned, compared to the direct inject method of the Duet. Being among the cheapest of the FL machines on the market, it's interesting that Frigidaire/Electrolux thinks their customer base is even remotely curious about water levels, if that's why they have water hitting the glass.

IMO, the thing that sales staffs needs to advise the customer and really drive home with them is that they should never, ever, latch the washer door closed after use. My guess is that there are far more complaints about musty smells than there are about water levels.

 

[favorit]

go figure

the Affinity here can't have the further 4 years warranty the other european made E'lux can subscribe after the legal/default 2 year warranty is expired.
And as you can read on this board current AEG and Zanussi are no more what they used to be ....

 

[tomturbomatic]

My Mieles are of an older design where the water goes into the dispenser drawer and down at the front of the machine into the outer tub. There is no water spray onto the glass, but everything gets saturated. I sort of like the idea of the detergent going into the outer tub to be dissolved rather than having the granules being sprayed onto the items in the load at the start of the fill, but it probably does not matter. When I had a Duet, I used to think that it would be nice to have that strong cascade of water falling on the load all during the wash and rinses instead of just during the fills, but the machine had more serious flaws that needed to be resolved first, IMHO.

 

[mrboilwash]

My Miele flushes its glass and boot for just a few seconds at the beginning of a cycle, then the detergent goes down the traditional way. I think to recall it is meant to prevent squeaking sounds of dry laundry rubbing against the glass. When loaded to full capacity in the normal cotton cycle it certainly does help.
It also fills for the rinses over the glass, I really love that because it keeps the boot clean of detergent residue even if I would use ultra low rinse water levels, but I don`t ;-)

A friend has cheap Whirlpool that dumps the detergent directly from the boot into the load, and he always ends up with undissolved Megaperls around the glass and boot.
Whirlpool`s repair guy recommended to use a liquid instead, what a joke !
I also had an AEG with a recirculation jet for a year or so then we parted again. Thought it is too unsanitary when after a low temperature load some remaining water is sitting in the sump for a whole week or even longer to be pumed onto the next load.

 

[mrb627]

SQ

My Speed Queen FL has an independent spray nozzle above the door, it sprays a fine mist in the basket. It is meant to aid in the saturation of the clothes at the beginning of the wash as well as a 25 second suds kill spray prior to the first spin sequence. This machine is able to handle a fair amount of suds and rinse them away. The manual says that the level of suds during the was should not rise above the center of the door. On the couple of loads where the suds came up that high, they were beat down by the end of the first rinse. The detergent compartment is flushed and emptied into the outer wash tub at the back of the machine. I prefer this method over the dumping of powdered detergent directly on to the dry load.

Malcolm