For you guys that like to play with numbers over morning coffee.
http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php
http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php
Fuel Cost Caculator For Home Heating
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dj-gabriele
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Is it even legal to domestically burn coal in the US?! :O
Here in most towns you're allowed to only burn methane or GPL gas because of pollution regulations and diesel (yup, like cars) burners are having a hard time as the thing is as expensive as GPL gas and requires much more maintenance... plus there's a big flourishing market for heat pumps that are working very well, especially in new buildings or those old ones that have new insulation added, even in cold areas they're competitive if not much more cheaper to run than even the latest most efficient condensing combi-boilers.
Here in most towns you're allowed to only burn methane or GPL gas because of pollution regulations and diesel (yup, like cars) burners are having a hard time as the thing is as expensive as GPL gas and requires much more maintenance... plus there's a big flourishing market for heat pumps that are working very well, especially in new buildings or those old ones that have new insulation added, even in cold areas they're competitive if not much more cheaper to run than even the latest most efficient condensing combi-boilers.
dj-gabriele
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Plus I forgot to add that with the standard heating efficiencies the chart is MUCH unbalanced in favour of coal...
gas boilers have efficiencies up to 108% of the PCI now and wood an pellet burners are in the area of 90-92%! And there are many condensing liquid fuel burners too that reach efficiency similar to those with gas as a source!
What are we... still in steam or natural circulation with near-boiling water in cast iron radiators?!?!?!
gas boilers have efficiencies up to 108% of the PCI now and wood an pellet burners are in the area of 90-92%! And there are many condensing liquid fuel burners too that reach efficiency similar to those with gas as a source!
What are we... still in steam or natural circulation with near-boiling water in cast iron radiators?!?!?!
Is It Legal To Burn Coal For Home Heating or Cooking In USA
In theory yes, but much would depend upon local codes as states would have control over such things not the US federal government.
The United States has vast reserves of coal, and is one of only small group if any other place that has deep supplies of anthracite coal (mainly north east Pennsylvania). There are still a few places that make furnaces, boilers (some with automatic stokers)in the USA so someone must be using such things.
IIRC many in parts of Pennsylvania, northern New Jersey and New York use coal for heating.
There are many places in the USA without natural gas pipe lines. So their only options are propane tanks or fuel oil, both of which can be pricey when compared to coal.
One fly in the ointment is that no small number of home owner insurance companies will not write policies for homes that have certain wood, coal or similar furnaces/boilers installed indoors or even near the structure. This is out of concerns about carbon monoxide and fire liability.
In theory yes, but much would depend upon local codes as states would have control over such things not the US federal government.
The United States has vast reserves of coal, and is one of only small group if any other place that has deep supplies of anthracite coal (mainly north east Pennsylvania). There are still a few places that make furnaces, boilers (some with automatic stokers)in the USA so someone must be using such things.
IIRC many in parts of Pennsylvania, northern New Jersey and New York use coal for heating.
There are many places in the USA without natural gas pipe lines. So their only options are propane tanks or fuel oil, both of which can be pricey when compared to coal.
One fly in the ointment is that no small number of home owner insurance companies will not write policies for homes that have certain wood, coal or similar furnaces/boilers installed indoors or even near the structure. This is out of concerns about carbon monoxide and fire liability.
whirlcool
Well-known member
Would most homeowners even know the % of efficiency of their furnaces in order to complete this form on the website?
Interesting Chart Laundress
But, Heating oil is more than $3 per gallon, Propane is closer to $3 a gallon than $2, and I am paying 60 cents per therm of Natural Gas [ about 1/2 of what they list ] and any decent Gas hot air furnace is over 90% efficient these days, Plus they completely left out Heat-Pumps one of the least expensive ways to heat a home today.
But, Heating oil is more than $3 per gallon, Propane is closer to $3 a gallon than $2, and I am paying 60 cents per therm of Natural Gas [ about 1/2 of what they list ] and any decent Gas hot air furnace is over 90% efficient these days, Plus they completely left out Heat-Pumps one of the least expensive ways to heat a home today.
Hey, I Didn't Make The Thing!
*LOL*
Since the website the thing came from promotes coal for home heating and so forth it wouldn't surprise me if things were skewed that way.
Prices for natural gas have come way down over the past few years, that was something no one saw coming IIRC. IIRC here in NYC NG is cheaper then fuel oil which makes a nice change for some.
The question again becomes if one's area/street is piped for NG or not. If so then converting maybe a simple matter. However many do want NG but if they are "off line" or some place where demand does not warrant the local company running mains, they can forget it.
*LOL*
Since the website the thing came from promotes coal for home heating and so forth it wouldn't surprise me if things were skewed that way.
Prices for natural gas have come way down over the past few years, that was something no one saw coming IIRC. IIRC here in NYC NG is cheaper then fuel oil which makes a nice change for some.
The question again becomes if one's area/street is piped for NG or not. If so then converting maybe a simple matter. However many do want NG but if they are "off line" or some place where demand does not warrant the local company running mains, they can forget it.
In my neck of the woods nobody heats with coal. There aren't even any coal burning power plants in California. Coal was once heavily used in California. There's a local park with a mansion on it, built by a family that made its fortune in coal in the late 19th century and early 20th century. The Hayward earthquake fault runs right through the property.
Electricity rates here are such that unless a home is all-electric, heating with electricity, even with a very efficient heat exchanger, could be cost-prohibitive. And, although the actual cost of natural gas to the power company is less than $.50/therm, the lowest price we are currently paying is around $.95/therm delivered. I suppose some of that pricing goes towards subsidies for low income households, as well as paying for PG&E's past poor maintenance of the gas lines, which resulted in a horrific fatal and very destructive fire over in San Bruno a couple years ago.
Our highest residential rate tier for electricity is something like $.35/KWH. Highest for gas is about $1.10/therm. I haven't done the math lately but it's possible that putting in a fuel cell that converts natural gas to electricity might actually be cheaper than buying the electricity off the grid. But I'd probably invest in a rooftop solar system instead.
Electricity rates here are such that unless a home is all-electric, heating with electricity, even with a very efficient heat exchanger, could be cost-prohibitive. And, although the actual cost of natural gas to the power company is less than $.50/therm, the lowest price we are currently paying is around $.95/therm delivered. I suppose some of that pricing goes towards subsidies for low income households, as well as paying for PG&E's past poor maintenance of the gas lines, which resulted in a horrific fatal and very destructive fire over in San Bruno a couple years ago.
Our highest residential rate tier for electricity is something like $.35/KWH. Highest for gas is about $1.10/therm. I haven't done the math lately but it's possible that putting in a fuel cell that converts natural gas to electricity might actually be cheaper than buying the electricity off the grid. But I'd probably invest in a rooftop solar system instead.
dj-gabriele
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CIT. "Our highest residential rate tier for electricity is something like $.35/KWH. Highest for gas is about $1.10/therm."
Welcome to the basic energy rates that we have in Italy... it's all growing from there! (If you're lucky enough, otherwise it starts more expensive already!)
And we have one of the most efficient (read new) national gas lines and electric power lines, go figure if the situation were like yours! (Don't want to imagine it!)
And yet, compared to other fuels, having a heat pump is a very attractive solution compared to the other energy sources for heating ha house.
Welcome to the basic energy rates that we have in Italy... it's all growing from there! (If you're lucky enough, otherwise it starts more expensive already!)
And we have one of the most efficient (read new) national gas lines and electric power lines, go figure if the situation were like yours! (Don't want to imagine it!)
And yet, compared to other fuels, having a heat pump is a very attractive solution compared to the other energy sources for heating ha house.
runematic
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Propane is closer to $3 a gallon than $2
I just got the 500 gallon tank fueled up for the winter & it cost me somewhere around $1.80-1.87/gallon iirc. We're close the the anthracite region and a bunch of folks around here use coal. We used to, but it can be dirty. Coal dust can get everywhere in the house. Also, I hated having to unshovel a pickup truck load of coal. It does heat well though.
I just got the 500 gallon tank fueled up for the winter & it cost me somewhere around $1.80-1.87/gallon iirc. We're close the the anthracite region and a bunch of folks around here use coal. We used to, but it can be dirty. Coal dust can get everywhere in the house. Also, I hated having to unshovel a pickup truck load of coal. It does heat well though.
Heating Oil Prices In NY/NJ/Conn Area
Averages around $3.32 per gallon give or take
http://www.midatlanticoil.com/
Averages around $3.32 per gallon give or take
http://www.midatlanticoil.com/
davetranter
Well-known member
For anyone interested
Energy costs in the U.K. (from my suppliers, anyway)
Electricity £0.1575 per kW/h, plus 'standing charge' of £0.105 per DAY
Gas £0.04350 per kW/h plus 'standing charge' of £0.274 per DAY
Gas here now priced in kW/h the same as electricity. Not sure of the conversion factor to BTU, but it's a simple ratio and will be on the 'Net somewhere. We were provided with a conversion factor when the billing change occurred, but I'm not checking back through the last dozen years or so of bills to find it.... ;-)
I don't use much gas, so my gas now (including the ridiculously high 'standing charge') now costs more per kW/h than electricity!! So much for encouraging 'efficiency' and/or reducing 'carbon footprint'...!!!... The only way to make gas pay is to use LOADS of it!!! (Rant over!!)
All best
Dave T
P.S. I've just had a quick look around the 'Net for U.K. Fuel Oil and/or LPG prices, but no-one seems to want to publish a price... Which is worrying in itself!!
Energy costs in the U.K. (from my suppliers, anyway)
Electricity £0.1575 per kW/h, plus 'standing charge' of £0.105 per DAY
Gas £0.04350 per kW/h plus 'standing charge' of £0.274 per DAY
Gas here now priced in kW/h the same as electricity. Not sure of the conversion factor to BTU, but it's a simple ratio and will be on the 'Net somewhere. We were provided with a conversion factor when the billing change occurred, but I'm not checking back through the last dozen years or so of bills to find it.... ;-)
I don't use much gas, so my gas now (including the ridiculously high 'standing charge') now costs more per kW/h than electricity!! So much for encouraging 'efficiency' and/or reducing 'carbon footprint'...!!!... The only way to make gas pay is to use LOADS of it!!! (Rant over!!)
All best
Dave T
P.S. I've just had a quick look around the 'Net for U.K. Fuel Oil and/or LPG prices, but no-one seems to want to publish a price... Which is worrying in itself!!
$1.90 PER GALLON PROPANE
Yay Todd That is a better rate than my friends in Harper's Ferry W, Va were paying a few years ago, it usually cost them almost 1,500.00 to fill their 500 gallon tank and the bad thing for them was they have actually run out of propane in just one month after filling. For them they really should have had heat pumps installed as electricity in our area in W,Va is still only .08 per KWH.
Yay Todd That is a better rate than my friends in Harper's Ferry W, Va were paying a few years ago, it usually cost them almost 1,500.00 to fill their 500 gallon tank and the bad thing for them was they have actually run out of propane in just one month after filling. For them they really should have had heat pumps installed as electricity in our area in W,Va is still only .08 per KWH.
rustyspaatz
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Where the rubber meets the road
If you have a home or building, especially of considerable square footage (over 600 s.f.) and its poorly insulated.
If you drive a fossil fuel burning car (I do)
If you get a gas bill each month, buy electric from an electric provider that is on grid(I still do), or if you have a gas receipt in your wallet from stopping at Petro stop( I do)
We all are dependent on gas.
I drive a compact car and am looking to either convert it to electric, or get an electric vehicle.
My home is 230 s.ft. Tiny house that is very well insulated. My electric bill was $19.97 last month, and I don't use AND fossil fuels in my home.
I'm increasingly adding solar panels to fuel my electric appliances.
I've cast off that out dated materialist tendency that was introduced, en mass, in the 1940s. I got rid of 80% of my stuff, and surprisingly, don't miss ANY of it.
If you have a home or building, especially of considerable square footage (over 600 s.f.) and its poorly insulated.
If you drive a fossil fuel burning car (I do)
If you get a gas bill each month, buy electric from an electric provider that is on grid(I still do), or if you have a gas receipt in your wallet from stopping at Petro stop( I do)
We all are dependent on gas.
I drive a compact car and am looking to either convert it to electric, or get an electric vehicle.
My home is 230 s.ft. Tiny house that is very well insulated. My electric bill was $19.97 last month, and I don't use AND fossil fuels in my home.
I'm increasingly adding solar panels to fuel my electric appliances.
I've cast off that out dated materialist tendency that was introduced, en mass, in the 1940s. I got rid of 80% of my stuff, and surprisingly, don't miss ANY of it.
runematic
Well-known member
John/Combo, they probably do not own their own tank. Most propane companies charge more to fill their own leased tanks then if you own your own tank. It's sounds counter-intuitive, but it's the truth. Also, if you lease your tank, you are obligated to buy the propane from the company you lease from. No one else will fill those tanks.
A few years ago, we were paying $1.50/gal and a friend that leased a tank was paying almost $4/gal. The real amazing part is I get propane delivered from 40 miles away and it's CHEAPER than from the company 2 miles from my house. Go figure.
Now, as far as running out of propane, we only use it for heat, not for cooking or hot water. We can make this tank last until sometime in late February. We only set the temp to 64-65* and to 60* at night to sleep. I sleep much better when it's cool than when it's hot.
[this post was last edited: 11/13/2013-15:08]
A few years ago, we were paying $1.50/gal and a friend that leased a tank was paying almost $4/gal. The real amazing part is I get propane delivered from 40 miles away and it's CHEAPER than from the company 2 miles from my house. Go figure.
Now, as far as running out of propane, we only use it for heat, not for cooking or hot water. We can make this tank last until sometime in late February. We only set the temp to 64-65* and to 60* at night to sleep. I sleep much better when it's cool than when it's hot.
[this post was last edited: 11/13/2013-15:08]
rustyspaatz
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Runematic-
"Most propane companies charge more to fill their own leased tanks then if you own your own tank"
It's True.
About 10 years back I had 2 -500 gallon tanks with Ferrell gas as the service provider, for two houses. One tank I owned and the rate was less for that one. One benefit to renting the tank, in most cases, if something happens to it, they would have to service it.
"Most propane companies charge more to fill their own leased tanks then if you own your own tank"
It's True.
About 10 years back I had 2 -500 gallon tanks with Ferrell gas as the service provider, for two houses. One tank I owned and the rate was less for that one. One benefit to renting the tank, in most cases, if something happens to it, they would have to service it.
runematic
Well-known member
One of the guys I eat breakfast with just got his annual supplement of nut coal to back up his oil furnace. His cost for 1 ton was $235 with a $50 delivery charge added on top of that.
With recent tree removal around the property here, this place is overflowing with firewood. It's mostly soft wood (pittosporum) along with some fruit wood (almond, lime, avocado). But I think I'll be making more use of the fireplace inserts this winter. If for no better reason than to free up space in the firewood storage areas.
