Gas dryers - visible flame?

[fan-of-fans]

Having never used a gas dryer before, is there a visible flame in the drum? Such that if you held the door switch down and started the cycle, could you see flames or a glow of them, like you can an electric?

I remember reading on here about one old gas dryer, that had a perforated drum which through which flames wer visible. Clothes broiling? Scary! Sounds very unsafe to me. Apex maybe was the brand? Heard the electric version was similar.

 

[kd12]

The old gas dryers I remember from my college dorm in the '80s didn't have a visible flame when running. Had a glass window on the door to see inside the drum. That's my only experience with gas dryers, as I found they didn't dry particularly well.

 

[appnut]

My parents always had gas dryers, so the first 23 years of my life. One big heck no you can't see any flame.

 

[fan-of-fans]

I have heard in some cases though of visible flames, if a dryer set up for natural gas was accidentally run on propane. The flames would get large enough to be seen through the vent at the rear of drum. Since propane runs at a higher pressure than natural gas.

 

[bradfordwhite]

gas dryers and fire? nahhh....

 

[DADoES]

 
Gas burners, on "modern" dryers anyway, are in the base under the drum ... nothing to see from inside the drum.

 

[rinso]

Maytag HOH gas dryers had a flame that you could see by opening the pilot lighting door while they were running.

 

[tomturbomatic]

It was determined in early dryers that it was safest to have the flame above the tumbling fabrics in a dryer with a perforated drum and to move the heat through the dryer in a counter-flow pattern to prevent scorching and burning that could be experienced if the heat source were placed below the tumbling fabrics.  So if you have had the chance to look at an operating large capacity commercial gas dryer from the outside and could see the unenclosed burner box, you would see that the flames are at the top and the tips of the flames are pulled slightly down by the strong downward flow of air through the dryer.  You generally can't see the flames because they are not big enough to be visible from  inside the drum and the mostly blue flames do not give off as much light as a yellow flame with more glowing hydrocarbons such as a candle flame.  

 

Early domestic gas dryers with a perforated drum and a burner positioned like the heating element in an electric dryer in the upper quadrant  of the outer tub could have visible flames.  Early Hamilton gas dryers sought to cope with that situation by having a radiant plate that was exposed to the tumbling drum on one side and to the burner on the other  to prevent the products of combustion from passing through the tumbling fabrics, but it was a short-lived design.

 

Now if you had a gas-fired Whirlpool made dryer and you were to turn it on in a totally dark room and look in the glass door, you might be able to see the blue glow of the flame below and behind the inlet grill on the back of the drum bulkhead  as you can sometimes see the dull red glow of the electric heating element in the same area. 

 

[maytag85]

Maytag gas dryers from the mid to late 50’s to the 80’s all had a small access panel on the bottom right hand corner for the burner and I am familiar with removing the small access panel to light the pilot on my 1973 Maytag DG306

A video of the burner in operation on my 1973 Maytag DG306.

 

[maytag85]

What the burner looks like when starting up on a Maytag HOH gas dryer

 

[henene4]

Nyborg commercial dryers

Back when I was younger we went to a laundromat in a vacation town we visited every other year.

They had (and actually have) large prominently red Nyborg Gas dryers.
That brand is long gone but there machines made by Miele and Electrolux sold under that name through time.
This machine is closest to Miele probably though also not at all.

They have an almost Bunsen style burner on the left back of the drum that burns vertically.

In the old place (not the one I linked, though they are the same machines) there was an inspection hole on one dryer you could see the flame through.

In normal operation you might be abled to make out some red glow in the left back and maybe some flame from time to time.

One interesting thing is that those dryers are surprisingly low air flow (at least compared to the Miele machine that ran alongside them) and flame always burned quite red.
So not the best design.

If you increase airflow in a gas dryer you often get better combustion and a bluer flame.

But that greater air volume can pull the flames further.

That would potentially increase the chance of a flame touching the clothing under bad circumstances (as I said, those Nyborg machines would show flames from time to time).

With the burner below or above the drum 2 90° turns are usually used between burner and drum inlet.

Thus if the flame should ever grow to large for any reason, it is unlikely it could make that U-turn.

On these Nyborg dryers as well:

HORRIFIC performance.
Air flow was bad.
You had to use high temperature settings.

The Miele (or even the smaller ELux dryers in my go to laundromat back home) have the amazing advantage to have intense air flow.
Even with medium or low temperature settings you would get fast drying.

High drying temperatures were even and still not terribly extreme.

Those Nyborg dryers heated very unevenly and were running either obscenly hot or very cool.
And took a good 33% longer for the same loads.

https://g.co/kgs/QKVbi9

 

[bradfordwhite]

And as they are now, all these dryers suck all the particles and toxic gases that are expelled when burning through your clothing.

That toxic gas is so bad you HAVE to vent a gas dryer, like a gas furnace and water heater, outside. This is according to manufacturers.

Then there is the brown residue that you will find in chimneys from gas burning appliances. That builds up on the inside of the dryer and ON YOUR CLOTHES.

You can see it when looking at the insides of older gas dryers. There is a noticeable smell and gross brown discoloration of the inside of the drum.

That doesn't happen with an electric dryer. [this post was last edited: 2/13/2021-17:33]

 

[henene4]

Wouldn't go that far

Main reason to vent gas dryers isn't really the exhaust being all to toxic.

Biggest issue is just they use up tons of oxygen.
Venting them outside creates negative pressure in your home which replenishes the oxygen by just sucking in more air.

It's the same as with cars.

Yes you shouldn't huff the exhaust.
But you can't kill yourself with car exhaust anymore.

At least not the nice (CO) way.

And the amount of dirt being deposited isn't that big.

Most of what you see there is not residue caused by burning directly.

It's just the airflow passing by.
Over time that deposits stuff.
Static charge naturally builds up in most air paths over a great enough time frame.

 

[maytag85]

Don’t see any evidence of unburnt deposits in my 1973 Maytag DG306. If there are deposits in the burner cone or plenum then the burner isn’t burning properly and the burner will need to be adjusted somehow. My 1973 Maytag DG306 has that one adjustable air mixing valve for the burner you can adjust and you will see it when you open the pilot access door.

A gas dryer doesn’t admit that much if any carbon monoxide at all according to John Lefever/combo52 plus there is tons of air being pulled through a gas dryer burner and burns more clean and efficient compared to a gas stove or gas water heater burner. Real reason why gas and electric dryers are exhausted to the outside is because of the lint and moisture that comes out of the exhaust.

 

[akronman]

Gas Dryers

Northeast Ohio has a huge majority of gas dryers instead of electric. They are very clean, cheaper to operate than electric, and very safe. I have a 62 year old gas dryer whose drum is just as clean as my 40 and 30 year old gas dryers, and just as clean as my many electric dryers. I do vent all my dryers, but there are a few neighbors and homes I've seen where their one gas dryer is not vented, and no one died, though I agree it isn't wise. When I bought my home, the previous tenants had an unvented gas dryer for 14 years they lived here, but I vented it within a week. And my whitest of whites are still whitest of whites after all that gas drying. Also, in my experience with gas versus electric, the electric burners seem to wear our more often than any parts of the gas burner/ignition system. Fewer repairs.

 

[wayupnorth]

As a kid, we had a Bendix 50's gas dryer. You light a pilot holding in a red knob and after 30 or less seconds you could turn it on, burner lit, clothes baked but you could see the burner visable on the floor in front when it was dark in the front of it.

 

[helicaldrive]

Electric dryers start on fire too

We had a 1959 GE electric dryer when I was a kid. The rear of the drum was perforated, and the heating coils were right behind the drum. When they were activated, they glowed bright red through the drum perforations. Yikes. Not a good design. If the dryer were overloaded, or had a bulky item in it, the items caught in the rear of the drum would scorch and plastic zippers could melt.

I believe GE and others still have that design to this day. WP and Maytag never did, and always had the electric coils in the same housing as the gas burner.

Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, but personally, electric dryers make me more uncomfortable about fire hazards than gas. I don’t like the idea of house wiring heating up with 6000 watts passing through it, and those hotter-than-a-firecracker fuses that eventually burn out and smoke also creep me out.

My gas dryers have never gotten dirty/sooty inside, or yellowed my clothes, or made them smell like gas.

Just my experience and opinion. There will never be universal agreement.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Here in Florida gas dryers seem quite rare. Homes might have a gas stove but usually everything else is electric (other than possibly a gas water heater if it's the tankless instant kind).

Even older mobile homes that might have a gas stove and furnace would still have an electric dryer and water heater.

As for the coils being visible I know what you mean on the GEs where the back wall is perforated. They are still made that way.

As for Whirlpools, I THINK (but don't quote me on it) our 70s Whirlpool made Kenmore we had when I was really young had coils that were visible through the rear vent. It's been so long, so I could be wrong. I know our 2004 Whirlpool made Kenmore does NOT have visible coils, but you can see a light glow from them through the vent.

I seem to remember reading on here that electric dryers pose more of a fire hazard with lint buildup than do gas.

 

[DADoES]

 
29" WP dryer design has the heater box at the back, not under the drum (unless there has been a revision on that).  The inlet grill is at top of the heater box.  The element is below the grill but the glow can be seen.

 

[maytag85]

The HOH electric dryers have the heating element fairly close to the drum like the GE dryers of the era but they limited the heat output to 4500 watts and used a extremely sensitive high limit thermostat and even as something as simple as opening the door on a HOH electric dryer will cause it to trip by the heat rising from the heating element.

Never really liked the design of GE dryers since the heating element is literally behind the drum not to mention it’s 5600 watts. GE still uses a similar design to this day in their electric and gas dryers.

 

[twintubdexter]

Cole, first post

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">My Mom's old Apex had a perforated drum and you could look through the glass window and see the flames in the upper left-hand corner.. I've mentioned it too many times before so I won't get into it again. It was "fun." Working at the appliance store all those years, I saw several dryers come in as trades that had caught fire, some brand new ones too. The ones that stick in my mind are the electric Maytag Halo-of-Heat models. I worked on a lot of those and they were very fine appliances. but when the high-limit thermostat failed they would burn a big ring into the front, like they had been branded like a steer. Usually the door seal and other non--metal parts were burned up too.</span>

 

[circlew]

Helicaldrive, properly sized (and properly installed) wiring doesn't "heat up". 10 AWG wire is normally used for a dryer, though if it's a long run, 8 AWG should be used. I've never had any circuit breaker get more than warm with a full load on it. If a CB gets too hot without being overloaded, it's not making good contact with the busbar. If a fuse overheats in the same situation, it's either making poor contact with the fuse holder, or the fuse holder is making poor contact with the busbar (if the type that plugs or bolts on to one). Premium panelboards have silver flashed copper busbars, and breakers that attach firmly. If a buildings service equipment is worn out, poor quality, or inadequate, it needs to be replaced promptly.

 

[combo52]

Dryer Heating Types

Interesting thread.

 

Hi Sean, MT HOH electric dryers were 4800 watts and had more than their share of  heatdamaged clothing and fires when things went wrong.

 

10 Ga copper wire does get warm when running and electric dryer, yes 8 Ga is cooler running but keep in mind the shorter the run of 10 Ga wire the Hotter it gets. 

 

Wiring failures at connections, circuit breakers, buss bars etc are a very common electric dryer failure, I see some form of wiring failures on electric dryers nearly every week often several times a week.

 

Generally in a typical home no other circuit is loaded as heavily as the dryers circuit, electric water heaters come close but are usually 4,500 watts where as dryers are close to 6000 watts on the same size circuit and wiring.

 

There were so many wiring failures related to electric dryers in our neighboring county [ Montgomery County ] that in the 60s through the 70s they required 8 Ga wire a 40 amp breaker or fuses and use of a range cord and receptacle. on all dryer installations.

 

John L.

 

[DADoES]

 
Specific circuits in a non-typical home can easily top a dryer circuit.  Resistance HVAC heat for example, and my tankless water heater.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Yes.

Electric furnace 90+ amp double pole, poss. 2 double pole breakers
typical stove 50 amp double pole
Hot tub 60 amp double pole
tankless w.htr 80-120 amp double and triple pole breakers
RV outlet 50 amp double pole
electric car plu 50 amp double pole
packaged AC unit 60 amp double pole
pool heater 50 amp double pole

an electric dryer just uses 25-30 amps double pole.

 

[bradfordwhite]

It's just funny hearing the apologists for gas dryers.

We don't need to hear the "I've had a gas dryer all my life and...... blah, blah, it's always worked......" crowd members.

yeah, obviously, if it's what you've known all your life, your going to defend it like it's your child.

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What counts are those who've seen both and can speak for the differences.

I've seen both and there IS a difference. Heed the warnings if your strong enough. lol

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Not only have I seen the differences in gas dryers compared to electric, but also water heaters, furnaces, stoves, and pool heaters.

 

Personally, I've always had electric dryers.  Have had both electric and gas water heaters, had gas furnaces for many years of my life

When I owned rental properties in the 90s they all had gas water heaters and furnaces. I've changed out my fair share.
Nearly all had electric stoves.

Obviously, any dryer with defective heat limit switches, regardless of gas or electric, can cause problems. I've seen that as well.

There is much more that can go wrong with a gas appliance compared to an electric one.

I also collect retro/used/antique things besides appliances. One of them is older linens. You can tell when something has been dried repeatedly in a gas dryer. It dingier, it has a smell to it, the fabric is rougher.
There is a difference.

I've also seen the utility areas of laundromats behind the gas dryers and it always has the stereotypical brown/yellow grunge.
That generally doesn't happen with electric dryers, electric furnaces, electric water heaters, electric stoves.

I've seen coin-op electric dryers in apartment buildings and they might get dirty from daily wear, like any appliance, but they don't get the yellow grunge on them.

 

I've had probably 100 dryers since I've been fixing/collecting/ repairing  and gas dryers build up a yellow/brown haze on the inside of the drum and obviously on the clothing that has been in the drum.

 

---------------

In short gas is messier and certainly more dangerous.
And GAS clothes dryers, as they have been designed so far using direct contact of combusted gas on clothing; it is a terrible design.


Will a gas dryer with working high limit thermostats dry your clothes?
Yes, but it's not going to be as clean as an electric dryer.....which is contrary to the whole idea of doing laundry in the first place.

 

IMO- A proper gas dryer should have a combustion chamber and heat exchanger like a gas furnace.  That combustion chamber should have it's own fresh air intake and exhaust.  

 

There is a good reason why as far back as the 50s there were advertisements for "clean living" in an all electric home.  It's true.

 

[tomturbomatic]

RE: Reply #25

We had two Norge gas dryers in the 60s that had the big lift up door in the top for pilot/burner access. The underside of the access door would get fuel grime buildup on it. In warm weather when I use my outdoor gas dryers, I notice that the fabrics coming out of them do not have as sweet a smell as those dried in the electric dryers. I'm not complaining and after the first load or two, I don't notice it.   

 

[circlew]

I just checked the circuit breakers on two circuits serving 4000 W fan-forced electric heaters, that each have been running continuously for hours. The 20 A breakers were only slightly warm, and the 70 A feeder breaker to the panel serving one of the heaters was cool. I also felt the cables, and they were barely warmer than those with little if any load. The newer panel is an Eaton CH, and the older a Cutler-Hammer, which also uses the CH type breakers. I do remember the old FPE breakers getting warmer than these, but not overly hot.

A 20 A breaker is rated at 4800 W at 240 V, and for continuous loads limited to 85%, which is 4080 W, so 4000 W is nearly 85%. A 30 A breaker is rated at 7200 W, and 85% is 6120 W, so a dryer is less than the continuous rating. If a breaker of the proper rating overheats, it must either be defective, or it and the panel are poor quality. I don't doubt John sees problems with wiring associated with dryers, as I know lots of buildings have less than top quality wiring.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Proper breaker is important.

 

I remember a friend had a 1970 rental mobile home with a newer (2000ish) GE washer and electric dryer .  He mentioned that he kept having problems with the dryer not working.  He had a service person come out and replace a part on the dryer but still not working right.  

 

I checked the breaker box and they had the dryer circuit as a double pole 20 amp.  It was enough for the motor to run and heat but not continuous.  The breaker also didn't switch off correctly because it was damaged from getting hot.  It wouldn't stay on. 

 

[kenwashesmonday]

There was a block of Gold Medallion all electric houses in the town I grew up in.  By the 1970s, they all had gas lines run to them due to the high cost electric heat.