Gas refridgerators?

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I have only seen one- in a neighborhood pizzaria. It was vented outdoors via a 3" (762mm) duct/flue.

I'm not too keen on the unvented ones!
 
My parents bought a house in the earily 80's that had a Servel Air Conditioner. The unit was very efficient, and kept the house cool, but unfortunately it was at the end of it's life and was not reliable.

It had to be replaced that first summer. They looked into replacing with another Servel but the cost was prohibitive. Almost double what a new high efficiency electric model was even with haveing to have a new electric service ran to accomodate the new unit. I think in 1980 dollars it was about $6K.
 


My Amish friends/neighbors have a gas 'fridge.

I remember that the travel trailer we had when I was a kid had a small Dometic refrigerator. Also, the same era (the 1960s), two of our neighbors had Servels in their kitchens.

Joe
 
We were in south america a few years ago and the condo that we stayed in had a gas central a/c unit. It was mounted in a large walk in closet and vented to the outside. Was very surprised to see the flames through the port window when it was running. Had never seen an a/c unit like this. People I know who have camps up north where there is no power still have gas refrigerators and say they work great. Nice and quiet.
Jon
 
I remember seeing an ad in an old magazine for Servel refrigerators. Tbig sales pitch was how quiet it was. If I remember right, the woman was moaning about her old electric refrigerator, and how it seemed to get louder every day. Then, she wandered into her husband's parents' kitchen, where she was stunned to find a refrigerator that was dead quiet. And she was even more stunned when her husband told her that it was an old model.

This ad does raise questions:
1. If married, wouldn't she have logically seen her husband's parents' home before? (Not necessarily, granted, but more than likely.)
2. Purely speculative: if she hated the regular refrigerators of the 40s, what would she think of 2009 refrigerators?
3. Perhaps I should check myself into the nearest asylum for pondering these questions about a woman who probably only existed in the minds of some advertising department.
 
Asphyxia anyone?

Yes perhaps a gas refrigerator is silent, but if not vented it is neelessly posioning your air by sucking the oxygen out of it and adding carbon-dioxide, nitrous oxides and sulphuric oxides.

And if that weren't enough it's dumping added heat into the kitchen as well as yellowing and dirtying every ceiling, wall, floor, cabinet and every other surface inside.
 
Toggles:

Back when Servel was a big name, houses weren't often tight enough for combustion byproducts like CO and the others you mention to build up. The flame that ran a Servel's cooling system was about the size of a pilot light. The reason that old Servels have gotten a bad rap is because their burners were prone to fouling with rust and dirt over time if not maintained, and that could definitely lead to CO leakage. New gas reefers have a different burner design. Venting is now recommended for all installations, and required in a lot of localities.

By the way, what makes you think electric reefers don't return heat to the room they're in?

In their day, Servels were popular with people who liked peace and quiet, and also with rural people whose electric service was a little erratic or non-existent. The Amish love gas reefers.
 
Back when I lived in Eureka, CA., It was not uncommon to see them still around and about around nearby Arcata or McKinleyville or so. That's where I saw my first two door Servel with a ice maker. They are still popular out that way as are gas engine powered Maytag wringers due to the number of Marijuana grows out in the forests. No power needed meant no power lines to follow. When I worked at a now extinct second hand dealer, Jim Snow Appliance, we'd get them in and buyers would show up with cash in hand and names like Smith or Jones with no address...

RCD
 
> The flame that ran a Servel's cooling system was about the size of a pilot light.

The same is true for current model Dometic's. They put these fridges in small (often VERY small) campers and other RVs without issue, although they're usually vented to the outside.

They *are* dead quiet, which is really nice when camping.
 
By the way, what makes you think electric reefers don't return heat to the room they're in?

They do:

They heat removed from the "ice-box" istself
All wattage used to spin the compressor.

One simply, and perhaps erroneously, assumed the electric models were more efficient. :-)

According to this attachment, gas central-air conditioning fell out of favor (among other reasons) due to inefficiency as compared to electric versions (which in this case simply means running cost, IMHO).

Still gas central A/C would be great to balance seasonal demand on the electrical grid in the parts of the coutnry where heating is done predominantly by natural gas or fuel oil (Rather than electricity).

 
Gas Central:

Toggles:

What I hope to see is the principle of gas absorption cooling applied to solar. It's the tiny amount of heat from the gas flame that makes all the cooling magic happen, so why not get that heat from the sun? RV reefers can often be run on both propane and electric; if you run out of propane, but you have electricity, a small heating element can be switched on to provide the heat instead of using the gas flame. It seems to me that only a modest amount of ingenuity would be needed to make this happen for both A/C and reefers using heat from the sun.

The power companies would have the proverbial cow, of course, because they'd be losing one of their biggest profit centres.
 
oooooh what a good idea!

Of course impressive also would be a way to burn paper garbage, pine cones, leaves, charocal briqettes, etc for the required heat!
 
Efficiency is pretty hard to measure when you're comparing fuels. Electricity can be shown to be very efficient in many uses, but if the electricity must first be created by burning a fossil fuel, then it's often more efficient to use the fossil fuel directly as much energy is lost in the initial conversion to electricity at the power plant.

Residential gas air conditioners were killed by a combination of high initial cost combined with maintenance costs. For safety reasons, cooling systems larger than those in a refrigerator can't pump the ammonia refrigerant directly to the house. This means a traditional gas a/c system must keep the ammonia cooling system contained outside, and then use a secondary coolant system (usually water-based) to transfer heat from the house to the a/c. That means extra pumps and coils, unlike an electric a/c unit which pumps the cooled freon directly into the evaporator in the house. This means extra cost and complexity for the gas system, which reduces the benefit of not having a failure prone compressor.

When I was a kid, my parents bought a house with a Bryant gas a/c unit. It wasn't new, but worked beautifully and had running costs that really were less than a comparable electric system. After a couple of summers, though, troubles began. One summer it had a leak in the refrigerant system which caused it to blow high-pressure ammonia serveral feet in the air for several hours - it was quite spectacular and everyone in the neighborhood knew we had an a/c leak. The only local service for a residential gas a/c system was the gas company, who had installed it in the first place. For a reasonable price they came out and fixed it, and warranteed the fix.

The next summer there were two similar leaks, with similar results. The third summer brought another ammoinia leak, but by then the gas company had discontinued their promotion of residential a/c systems. The would agree to fix the leak, but no warranty on the fix at all. Nobody else in the area (Dallas-Ft. Worth) much cared to service the system either. My parents briefly looked into replacing it with a new gas system, but the cost was much greater than an electric system and obviously service was going to be a continuing issue. So our a/c was converted to an electric system that cost more to run but was at least reliable and maintainable.

I think gas a/c is a wonderful concept for all the reasons noted above, and no doubt the leakage issues have been solved, but until there's a good infrastructure of dealers and knowledgeable service professionals it's going to be a hard sell, especially due to the extra initial costs.
 
That tiny little flame packs a whole lot of heat output.

If it could happen with today's solar technology, the world would already have lots of new billionaires.
 
That tiny little flame packs a whole lot of heat output.

TE HE HE HE.

I pictured an effeminate gay "little person" with a magnum 57 or a semi-automatic weapon.
 
Maybe!

I know that gas refrigeration was prone to ammonia leakage, but that was then and this is now, with stainless steel much cheaper and more readily available than it was back in the day. I think with proper use of today's materials, the problems with ammonia-based A/C might be overcome.

We sure as shootin' need to do something, because electric refrigeration is squandering resources, and its refrigerants are even more dangerous than ammonia, which I readily admit is Not Nice Stuff.
 
Hmm....

Looks like what I envisioned is already here. It seems the Steinway piano company is using a solar ammonia-based absorption system in its Queens piano factory. The system is intended to keep Steinway's factory cool and under proper humidity, something critical in piano-building. So, the Steinway people would seem to have some confidence in the system's reliability.

The catch comes in when you look at the cost factor. The article I've linked to quotes a cost of about $11K per ton of cooling. That would make a system for a house add about $16-22K to the structure's cost, for an average starter house. The cost would probably come down quite a bit with mass production (the Steinway system is custom-built) and with marketplace competition.

Wouldn't it be great to be cool without that whopping bill every month? And while knowing you weren't burning fossil fuels?

This is the only solar-powered absorption system I've seen described as operational; most "solar" A/C seems to be variations on a traditional split-system unit, with the solar providing electricity.

P.S.: Steinway's system is also capable of providing heat in the winter.

 

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