GE Potscrubber GSD2800 rehab + horrifying imagery!

[funktionalart]

With huge thanks in advance to Nate and Justin for making this happen~brought the Potscrubber 2800 home today and am in the middle of major cleanup and restoration at 2am!

Several good news bits: It is cosmetically in the condition I expected from the iffy pics on the sale listing. Control panel is quite nice. CONTROL PANEL DOES WORK! Machine runs! Everything is there! (But am likely going to put in a more modern non-shaded pole GE motor).

But HOLINESS--this DW must've been a real disappointment in the cleanability department when it was taken out of service. True mess inside...I cannot imagine someone not taking a little time to keep their machine internally clean and working properly....pics explain: I'm either a glutton for punishment or REALLY like a machine a lot to dive into these kinds of grotty messes
Lots of pics for the squeamish attached. I started with inside door panel. It is now gorgeous and like new. BTW...anybody know the easiest/safest way to remove the door gasket?

 

[funktionalart]

The light show~

blurry and shaky pics--but everything beeps and blinks.

 

[a440]

Great find!
I think most dishwashers in operation over 3 - 5 years look nasty like your GE. Blah.
Great job cleaning it up!
Are you going to install this in your kitchen?
B

 

[mrb627]

GE @ its FINEST?

I would say that this is GE at its finest, as far as dishwashers go. Or is there a better model?

Malcolm

 

[funktionalart]

Brent & Malcolm~

Inside is worse than these pics convey--they were taken after I'd gotten started. The lime crust is THICK. And is it well-adhered. Like superglue. Have had it with scraping (though it does come off easier from the tub than from filters and small parts.) Unfortunately, to do this right I really should've removed the door and heat element as this is becoming really tedious in a tight space! After a bit of sleep, I'll get up and go buy some limescale remover and just start saturating everything to help the cause along.

Have seen many newish DWs which are fully crusted everywhere. Personally, I have never let mine get to that point. All my machines are really in stellar shape. But I suppose for a 32 year old DW, things could be worse with this GE. It's mostly hard water out here which has done this...but also a lack of maintenance. You should have seen all the leaves, twigs and bugs hidden under filtration covers. The filter screens themselves are so bad you cannot see light bulb shining behind them (after I removed the thick layer of crap).

This 2800 will probably go in the kitchen part time. I have a beautiful KitchenAid KUDS23 which is installed...but I think I will change out every so often just for fun. And to keep my KA from being used to death. I really want to keep it running for decades....

Is this GE at its finest? I think so. Many might argue--mostly due to these having electronic controls vs. mechanical rapid advance timer.

Really, I am not much of a GE fan to be honest. Primarily because I've always run KitchenAid/Hobart (LOVE the rock solid construction and build quality along with their performance. I've just wanted one of these 2800s since I first saw one back in about 1983. Since they just do not show up all that often these days, went ahead and took a chance.

 

[gadgetgary]

Good Luck with your 'new' 2800

Got mine several years ago for $100 off Ebay
GSD2800LO3

Love that machine!

 

[funktionalart]

Gary~thanks!

Do you know the model year of yours? Curious when GE changed over to white racks for these...must've been circa 1990-92? I'm pretty sure mine's on the earlier end of the spectrum...need to research date codes. Seems like these started production as 2800B or 2800D (which is what I have)

 

[gadgetgary]

Model year

I dont' know the model year. I originally purchased the 2800 in 1986 and mine had the blue racks. In 1992, I had to have the KUDS22 and sold my GE2800.
My KA is still my daily driver in my kitchen, but missed the GE 2800 and found it on Ebay in MA and that is when I purchased that unit and it lives downstairs in my laundry room.
This is my Daily Driver

 

[funktionalart]

I have to laugh....

You and I have the same pair of machines. And in all black. My KA is the 23, not 22...but visually identical. If you're at all like me (aside from great taste in DWs)...you will never, ever get rid of that KA.

 

[bluejay]

Interesting that GE switched to the white wash arm.  Is it plastic?  My GSD500 was a contractor standard special from '92 (my parents had the exact same version in their house as well), but it has the stainless wash arm.  Is the lime buildup from the city water?  Ours has been in continuous use for 6 years and does not have build up like that.

 

[funktionalart]

Jason,

It's sort of a similar plasticky composite like the permatuf tub. I think yours and others up to something like the next 2 or 3 models up had stainless arms...at least that's what I've seen in photos. This machine came from Tucson...not sure, but I think their water is as hard as ours is Phoenix. It takes a lot of inattentiveness to let it get like this. I've seen stainless tubs out here that are so white with the stuff it looks like a layer of sheetrock.

 

[bluejay]

My parents were on well water with high mineral content. Near the end of the dishwasher's life in the late 90s, it had green streaks and some buildup similar to yours. I wonder why GE went with a plastic wash arm; was it a purely financial decision or are the stainless ones prone failing?

 

[bwoods]

calcium deposit clean-up

Allen,

Is you haven't finished the clean up, you may want to use muratic acid (available from any paint store). I had a 2800 which I found back in 2004 at the end of someone's driveway, awaiting trash pickup, in my old neighborhood. I rescued it, of course, like any appliance lover.

It had a VERY thick calcite coating on the tub bottom and even the racks had white
deposits. I can't remember if it was Lime-Away or CLR that I used but it barely touched the deposits. It dissolved some of the thinner ones, but for the most part it just couldn't cut through the thinker deposits. So I got muratic acid and poured some in after a fill. It cleaned up the machine beautifully. I rinsed it out multiple times because af the stench and because the acid is very corrosive. After rinsing run a little baking soda in the final rinse and this ensure any remaining acidity is neutralized.

I will have say that it looked almost brand new inside, especially the racks. The calcium deposits over the twenty years of use in hard water had actually protected the racks from rust. I found no rust spots anywhere on neither the upper nor lower racks and the vinyl was shiny. Unusual for a 20 year old machine.

When I rehabilitate any GE dishwasher, I take the sump out, the coarse strainer, the sump cover and the float and run them through another dishwasher to remove grease and food build up. If there is mold (and their usually is) I then run them through another cycle with some bleach. (You never know what "surprises" are going to greet you when you open up the sump. I've found fruit pits, bone pieces, drinking straws, etc...)

When I lubricate the main motor bearing, I usually use a pentrating oil. If you take your finger and cannot easily twirl the fan on the motor, then soak the bearings in lubricating oil and it will usually free it up nicely.

Congratulations on your find!

 

[washer111]

Oh Dear, Call an Ambulance!

And another 2800 finds its way into the club!

This should be a great machine once you've cleaned it up, and restored it some.
I really like the control panel design of these machines.

Another Australian member informed me some time ago these machines were sold in Australia. I have been searching, but still have not found anything - exempt the Australian-built "Potscrubber" machines that were based on European designs of the 1970s/1980s.

In regards to the Metal vs Plastic wash-arm, I think it was more a distinguishing feature of the lower-end, versus the upper-end models. I don't really think there was any difference in washability between them, apart from the missing Passive Filter and Overhead-Constant-Rinse.
The highest-end models actually featured the "Multi-Orbit Wash Arm," so the plastic arm may have been a decision be designed to reduce wear on the mechanism that allows this orbital action to occur.

At this stage, while I really don't stand on either side of the "motor debate" on these machines (Which I found all about a couple of years back!), but it would perhaps be advisable to use the newer motor to take the electrical loading off the computer-control board. I think John's suggestion also included wiring in a relay system, so there is absolutely no load of the pump placed on the control board at all. I'm sure he can come and enlighten us with this information.

Good luck cleaning up the machine, and be careful when you dig into the pump!
This machine should be a real butt-kicker (including the top-rack corners) once all is said and done!

 

[funktionalart]

Barry~

Thanks for the input! I was actually about to go get Muriatic acid for another project but have decided to forget using it for anything--ventilation is lackluster in my place and I've got 3 pets...so I don't think I will subject myself or them to the insane fumes that stuff produces. It really would kill small animals. Luckily, the heavy deposits are limited to the 4 corners of the tub, filtration components and sump cover. I will just keep on manually going at this. The racks are stellar. There is no evidence of mineral deposit/scaling anywhere. No rack rust, either.

There is also no mould or mildew. I think this thing just sat outside for a very long time with water in it...along with decades of use with hard water. I still can't get over the stash of twigs, leaves and dead insects I found in there...

What I did do today was grab another non-electronic control pot scrubber (a lowly 640) and scavenge a motor/pump and inside door panel (as the gasket on the 2800 is quite iffy). I was really hoping to find an orbital wash arm assembly in nice shape so I wouldn't have to descale yet another item...but no such luck! It did yield me, however, a factory fresh black door panel and aluminum door frame trim....that was worth it alone!

 

[bwoods]

good find, Allen

There are several things you can use off the 640 for your 2800 and other future GE finds. I have drawered organizers in the garage where I stash parts from salvaged GE and Maytag DW's.

No, I don't blame you for not wanting those fumes in your house. Neither good for your nor your pets.

If you have the ability to get the machine outdoors you could use the muratic acid without asphyxiating yourself and then flush the tub with a garden hose.

Is there any pitting and/or blistering of the chrome on the control panel? I've seen this occur on machines that were kept outside for an extended length of time.

 

[whirlcool]

What do you think is wrong with the control panel? You said it didn't work. Maybe corrosion in the wiring connectors on it?

In all my years of having dishwashers I've never seen any scale build up in any of them. I've seen tub staining, but no calcium. Wouldn't using a DW detergent with phosphates prevent the scale in the first place? Out 7 year old Maytag DW's tub is just as clean today as it was when it was delivered in 2008. And earlier this year I cleaned the sump and removed bread bag ties, toothpicks, etc. from there.

 

[bwoods]

calcite deposits

You evidently have not lived in an area of high water hardness. No, detergents per se have virtually no effect on the calcium carbonate solution in the water.

Whether detergent is present in the water or not, when you evaporate hard water solid calcium carbonate known as calcite by geologists/chemists and colloquially known as "lime" or "scale" will remain behind. Solids do not have the ability to evaporate from a solution, whether detergent is present or not, but will stay behind as a solid or precipitate when the water evaporates away.

In some cases where wataer hardness is not great, some detergents may wash off previously deposited calcite from the dw tub. Of course, more will remain behind at the end of the load when the water evaporates so you get sort of a equilibrium. You increase water hardness and the equilibrium will shift from calcite removal to calcite deposition.

What does help, it not the detergent itself so much as a rinse agent (which can be present in some detergents), such as "Jet Dry." A rinse agent can't make the calcite evaporate with the water, but it reduces surface tension so the water droplets dont't 'stick' to the dishes and the dishwasher tub itself. More of them will sheet off and go down the drain (along with the calcium carbonate still in solution.) The less water left behind, the less solids will remain as hard water deposits on the surface.

Usually, when you find a dishwasher with much calcium build-up, and trust me its not uncommon, you probably had somone who failed to use rinse aid on a regular basis.

In very hard water areas, even rinse can't keep all deposits from forming. When you use a rinse aid it increases the amount of water that sheets off the dishes, racks and tub, but not all of course, and any bit of water remaining has calcium carbonate in it just waiting to become calcite when the water eventually evaporates and leaves its solids behind.

It's the exact same process by which stalagmites and stalctites are formed in caves. Those rock icicles are primariy calcite. As groundwater seeps into the caves the drops evaporates and leaves behind the water hardness.

If you lived in Kentucky, for example, near Mammoth Caves you very well might drill a well and tap into the same water supply (aquifer) that is dripping into the caverns near or below you. So the water you drink, the water going into your dishwasher and the water you bathe in is the exact same water that is dripping into the caves and forming those stalagmites and stalactites (known collectively as "dripstone".)

If you went down into the cave and sprayed Jet Dry on an active stalacite everyday, yes, you would slow the growth of this rock icicle as many of the droplets would sheet off before evaporating (however, they would still eventually evaporate and make deposits on the cave floor near the stalactite.

That's enough geology of water harness for today. But the answer is yes, water hardness build up does occur in dishwashers and yes it can be a problem.

Sometimes if we don't experience a particular problem personally then we often tend to think it doesn't exist. But to those who are experiencing it, it is very real.

 

[stevet]

Orbital arm..nope!

I do not think you will be able to use any other arm in that machine because there is a blocked wash arm sensor and warning light on that machine and IIRC,there are magnets at the end of the arms which trigger a hall effect transistor on the side(s) of the tub on the outside to tell the control board the arm is turning. Also, those orbital arms can sometimes seize up if the water quality is bad and the machine is not used often. I had that experience when we moved to our home here in Palm Coast. The machine hadn't really been used in 2 years as the house was not lived in and when I tried to turn the orbital arms on our GE Profile Dishwasher, they were badly stuck. The whole arm revolved but not the ends. I did free them up and when my wife went to load the first load of dishes in the new house, she said, "Get rid of this piece of garbage and put my Kitchenaid machine in as soon as if comes off the moving truck!"
I had taken our KDS18 and KDC21-D from our house back in NY down with all the furniture.

I left the buyers of the old place a KDS22 in the upstairs Kitchen and a Kenmore Ultrawash in the basement Kitchen so they had 2 decent machines to start with.
No guilt on my part!