David Bowie and now GE... a sad year so far. :-/
GE Sells to Haier
- Thread starter rockland1
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And Alan Rickman. :/
Its been at least 5 years now since Haier bought F&P and all the manufacturing moved offshore to Thailand.
Across three houses we have 4 F&P fridges, 2 that were made 20km from where I live and 2 that came from Thailand. Both products are identical. The oldest is now 11 years old without a service.
Over Christmas, I've just helped a friend pick out a new French door fridge for their new house and again the shelves and all the components are the same as they were on the Australian made stuff. The new 2016 models have much lower energy consumption, but otherwise the structural parts haven't changed.
Mum's oven that was bought pre Haier buy out has only just been superseded by a new model that has a lower profile control panel, but internally is exactly the same as the old one.
It seems that Haier was just as interested in getting the quality brand of F&P not their intellectual property. Most of the products we get in Australia come from Thailand these days, Cars, appliances etc. They seem to rapidly becoming what Japan was in the 80's, a low cost manufacturer of high quality appliances.
We have 3 20yo F&P dishwashers left in the office and in my conversations with the F&P repair men, if anything the build quality has gone up since manufacturing went off shore.
Across three houses we have 4 F&P fridges, 2 that were made 20km from where I live and 2 that came from Thailand. Both products are identical. The oldest is now 11 years old without a service.
Over Christmas, I've just helped a friend pick out a new French door fridge for their new house and again the shelves and all the components are the same as they were on the Australian made stuff. The new 2016 models have much lower energy consumption, but otherwise the structural parts haven't changed.
Mum's oven that was bought pre Haier buy out has only just been superseded by a new model that has a lower profile control panel, but internally is exactly the same as the old one.
It seems that Haier was just as interested in getting the quality brand of F&P not their intellectual property. Most of the products we get in Australia come from Thailand these days, Cars, appliances etc. They seem to rapidly becoming what Japan was in the 80's, a low cost manufacturer of high quality appliances.
We have 3 20yo F&P dishwashers left in the office and in my conversations with the F&P repair men, if anything the build quality has gone up since manufacturing went off shore.
joeypete
Well-known member
That's my feeling basically. As long as the products stay the same (or better) and for me, if they are still built by American workers in Louisville....I'll continue to buy GE appliances. Otherwise I'll probably stick with Whirlpool products.
I've been a union employee for over 10 years so I like to support my fellow members. A few years ago I bought a Ford Fusion...LOVED that car. Got home and realized that it was built in Mexico....I flipped out. Went back to the dealer and got a Focus instead, built in the U.S. The dealer was real good about thankfully. LOL I'm so OCD about that stuff.
I've been a union employee for over 10 years so I like to support my fellow members. A few years ago I bought a Ford Fusion...LOVED that car. Got home and realized that it was built in Mexico....I flipped out. Went back to the dealer and got a Focus instead, built in the U.S. The dealer was real good about thankfully. LOL I'm so OCD about that stuff.
jerrod6
Well-known member
There is not much point hoping that appliances will continue to be made in the USA or any specific country. The product will eventually be made in whatever country is most economical for the company to make them and they may or may not continue to be called GE. Most likely they will be called that for a few years and then the name will fade away...better than them continuing to use the name, like Whirlpool continues to use the KitchenAid name, while producing a product that is nothing like Hobart would produce today.
These appliances were no longer cost competitive for GE. The money can be made in manufacturing and maintaining commercial equipment. The last MRI I had performed was done inside a GE unit. More money in selling that to health care providers than selling a washer or DW to residential consumers.
Anyone see that GE commercial showing the guy happy because he is programing? Programming the way trains operate- not the way washers function.
It's just the way it is.
These appliances were no longer cost competitive for GE. The money can be made in manufacturing and maintaining commercial equipment. The last MRI I had performed was done inside a GE unit. More money in selling that to health care providers than selling a washer or DW to residential consumers.
Anyone see that GE commercial showing the guy happy because he is programing? Programming the way trains operate- not the way washers function.
It's just the way it is.
GE channeled their Haier power.
GE to Haier
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I'm reminded of the Far Side comic where the goldfish stand outside their bowl, their castle ornament ablaze, lamenting, "Well, thank God we all made it out in time...'course, now we're equally screwed." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I also think of AMC, who ran a radio ad sometime in the mid-eighties, offering zero-percent interest financing on new purchases. After the ad, the DJ murmured something about "I think 'zero interest' is exactly the problem." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Much as it pains us (I still wish I could shop at Montgomery Ward--and hush, Ralph ;-) ) to watch it all unfold, I'm not sure there's a way to win these situations (and indeed, it depends on whose definition of "winning" it is to which you're subscribing). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In market segments that are saturated, even venerable brands succumb. Sometimes it's because you can't enhance your profitability in an already marginal situation. You can try to do a lot of things to enhance short-term profitability (renegotiate contracts, trim workforce, improve efficiency, convince everyone to replace everything they own, or engineer the stuff you produce to have a two-year lifespan--and so forth). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Eventually, the problem is there's already a world full of what you're selling, and other people in other places are making it for less, maybe with more features than what you can add for the same pricepoint. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">There are a lot of peripheral issues here that may affect the long-term outcome, and I think that workforce costs are going to be huge contributors. I'll be keen to see if, like Hyundai, Haier might regard this as an opportunity for on-shore production, and play up the "Look, we build it here!" angle. Even if they do, though, I have my doubts as to whether the job force would be preserved--and assuredly not at the same pay/benefits level. I cite Interstate Brands' bankruptcy and reemergence as Hostess Brands, LLC, essentially as a way they could reboot, and get out of BCGTM contract terms (and pensions, and other commitments with which I'm sure they'd prefer to dispense). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">From an engineering perspective, if we assume that Haier behaves more like Lenovo (who had been building laptops for IBM anyway, but then acquired the rights to the entire ThinkPad line when IBM discontinued PC production), then they'll use this opportunity to inherit a strong brand with good products in place, from which they can eventually develop the next generation. That may be soon; that may be later. Chances are, they'll keep a good thing going for a while--Lenovo managed to cling to that original ThinkPad design for a really long time, before finally redesigning it a couple of years ago. It was a good design from the start, so they stuck with it. Given the F&P example, this seems to align. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">But the tooling and such is in Appliance Park, and Haier is somewhere else--whereas Lenovo had been doing it all along; they (literally) just had to switch the sticker. So, I rather expect that a rebadged Haier might be more likely. Still, if they continue to produce F&Ps in Thailand with the original designs, there's hope. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Seeing as Haier exists in a sphere with cheaper labor costs than GE, and as they are already the metaphorical D&M of their field, with rebadges aplenty for other sourcers, I think they have little need to keep Appliance Park around in the long-term, unless--like I said--they feel the need to make in-roads under the "Assembled in the U.S.A." angle. We'll see. (I hope I'm wrong.) </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I don't think there was another way to keep the appliances division going for GE--no one else has the capital to take on a behemoth like that in the U.S., and the U.S. field of appliance manufacturers presently could only be tepidly termed an oligopoly at best. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In many ways, and many posts prior discussing it, it's apparent that this war was fought and decided long ago, anyway--the first waves arrived in the seventies when Westinghouse divested; in 1980 when GM called it a day; in the mid-eighties where Hobart hung-up the residential-products apron, and in 1986 when D&M--king of the badge-design--was teleported to the Electroluxian homeworld. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">GE could have packed it in, too, but they seemed to be primarily a capital engine that carried on in the spirit of the great diversified corporations of the sixties. Money flowed to and fro, amongst the arms of the company that needed it at any given time. I almost think they were sufficiently capitalized to keep motoring along for quite some time, in a state of relative obliviousness. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Nevertheless, the capital engine tends to prune underperforming branches occasionally, and then the capital shuts off. Can you guess another GE division that went defunct once the hedgeclippers were produced? Montgomery Ward. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">The stage seems to have been set long ago for the ultimate outcome of (WCI) Electrolux, Whirlpool, and Maytag persisting, with Maytag ultimately playing the role of AMC to Whirlpool's Chrysler in the opera, such as it were.</span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I'm reminded of the Far Side comic where the goldfish stand outside their bowl, their castle ornament ablaze, lamenting, "Well, thank God we all made it out in time...'course, now we're equally screwed." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I also think of AMC, who ran a radio ad sometime in the mid-eighties, offering zero-percent interest financing on new purchases. After the ad, the DJ murmured something about "I think 'zero interest' is exactly the problem." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Much as it pains us (I still wish I could shop at Montgomery Ward--and hush, Ralph ;-) ) to watch it all unfold, I'm not sure there's a way to win these situations (and indeed, it depends on whose definition of "winning" it is to which you're subscribing). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In market segments that are saturated, even venerable brands succumb. Sometimes it's because you can't enhance your profitability in an already marginal situation. You can try to do a lot of things to enhance short-term profitability (renegotiate contracts, trim workforce, improve efficiency, convince everyone to replace everything they own, or engineer the stuff you produce to have a two-year lifespan--and so forth). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Eventually, the problem is there's already a world full of what you're selling, and other people in other places are making it for less, maybe with more features than what you can add for the same pricepoint. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">There are a lot of peripheral issues here that may affect the long-term outcome, and I think that workforce costs are going to be huge contributors. I'll be keen to see if, like Hyundai, Haier might regard this as an opportunity for on-shore production, and play up the "Look, we build it here!" angle. Even if they do, though, I have my doubts as to whether the job force would be preserved--and assuredly not at the same pay/benefits level. I cite Interstate Brands' bankruptcy and reemergence as Hostess Brands, LLC, essentially as a way they could reboot, and get out of BCGTM contract terms (and pensions, and other commitments with which I'm sure they'd prefer to dispense). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">From an engineering perspective, if we assume that Haier behaves more like Lenovo (who had been building laptops for IBM anyway, but then acquired the rights to the entire ThinkPad line when IBM discontinued PC production), then they'll use this opportunity to inherit a strong brand with good products in place, from which they can eventually develop the next generation. That may be soon; that may be later. Chances are, they'll keep a good thing going for a while--Lenovo managed to cling to that original ThinkPad design for a really long time, before finally redesigning it a couple of years ago. It was a good design from the start, so they stuck with it. Given the F&P example, this seems to align. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">But the tooling and such is in Appliance Park, and Haier is somewhere else--whereas Lenovo had been doing it all along; they (literally) just had to switch the sticker. So, I rather expect that a rebadged Haier might be more likely. Still, if they continue to produce F&Ps in Thailand with the original designs, there's hope. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Seeing as Haier exists in a sphere with cheaper labor costs than GE, and as they are already the metaphorical D&M of their field, with rebadges aplenty for other sourcers, I think they have little need to keep Appliance Park around in the long-term, unless--like I said--they feel the need to make in-roads under the "Assembled in the U.S.A." angle. We'll see. (I hope I'm wrong.) </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I don't think there was another way to keep the appliances division going for GE--no one else has the capital to take on a behemoth like that in the U.S., and the U.S. field of appliance manufacturers presently could only be tepidly termed an oligopoly at best. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In many ways, and many posts prior discussing it, it's apparent that this war was fought and decided long ago, anyway--the first waves arrived in the seventies when Westinghouse divested; in 1980 when GM called it a day; in the mid-eighties where Hobart hung-up the residential-products apron, and in 1986 when D&M--king of the badge-design--was teleported to the Electroluxian homeworld. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">GE could have packed it in, too, but they seemed to be primarily a capital engine that carried on in the spirit of the great diversified corporations of the sixties. Money flowed to and fro, amongst the arms of the company that needed it at any given time. I almost think they were sufficiently capitalized to keep motoring along for quite some time, in a state of relative obliviousness. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Nevertheless, the capital engine tends to prune underperforming branches occasionally, and then the capital shuts off. Can you guess another GE division that went defunct once the hedgeclippers were produced? Montgomery Ward. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">The stage seems to have been set long ago for the ultimate outcome of (WCI) Electrolux, Whirlpool, and Maytag persisting, with Maytag ultimately playing the role of AMC to Whirlpool's Chrysler in the opera, such as it were.</span>
Some good points Roto......but I just don't get it when GE-A was so profitable. Maybe not to the level of other GE divisions, but still very profitable to the point they already paid back that 1B in App Park investment twice over.
They could've just let it run on its own. Or partially spun it off with a minor stake.
I expressed my 'feelings' on my Facebook and a few people replied, "meh, washers and microwaves are a distraction."
Really?
I think that's embarrassing then.
How are Mitsubishi and Bosch/Siemens etc. able to have their fingers in so many complimentary and non-complimentary industries and still be capable and successful?
Yet....American companies cannot?
Are we just dumb? Too ADD? Not talented enough? Or too profit and narrow/minded?
Why do we keep selling our [good] assets away?! And to foreigners no doubt? A country that our (blegh) allegedly future-president keeps railing against?
This just really pisses me off. I'm sure I'll cool off. But it is so defeatist and embarrassing.
We, ourselves, are choosing not to make things anymore.
They could've just let it run on its own. Or partially spun it off with a minor stake.
I expressed my 'feelings' on my Facebook and a few people replied, "meh, washers and microwaves are a distraction."
Really?
I think that's embarrassing then.
How are Mitsubishi and Bosch/Siemens etc. able to have their fingers in so many complimentary and non-complimentary industries and still be capable and successful?
Yet....American companies cannot?
Are we just dumb? Too ADD? Not talented enough? Or too profit and narrow/minded?
Why do we keep selling our [good] assets away?! And to foreigners no doubt? A country that our (blegh) allegedly future-president keeps railing against?
This just really pisses me off. I'm sure I'll cool off. But it is so defeatist and embarrassing.
We, ourselves, are choosing not to make things anymore.
gusherb
Well-known member
Glad to have gotten that GE range when we did. It's really the only GE appliance I really like and ever liked. Never was too crazy about them, but nevertheless it's still a shame to see them get sold off, whether it be to Electrosux or Haier. I didn't think of it before, but LG or Crapsung would've been far worse IMO.
joeypete
Well-known member
Could be...
Exactly why Haier wanted GE. To give themselves a premium brand and presence. From what I understood, Electrolux was going to slot GE in the middle between Frigidaire and their name brand in terms of pricing.
Exactly why Haier wanted GE. To give themselves a premium brand and presence. From what I understood, Electrolux was going to slot GE in the middle between Frigidaire and their name brand in terms of pricing.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
The GE Appliance Park
is about an hour from me. I hope they keep that in operation. As far as GE, the ONLY GE major appliance experience I've had was growing up with a GE Potscrubber dishwasher that cleaned like crazy! I'm not sure, but I think we also sidexside GE fridge...but this was in the 70s/80s. Other than this, I think it's all been Kenmore/Whirlpool for me, and since I've RARELY ever had problems with them anywhere I've lived, I've just continued to use them. Now, I do like the looks of some of the GE appliances currently out....
is about an hour from me. I hope they keep that in operation. As far as GE, the ONLY GE major appliance experience I've had was growing up with a GE Potscrubber dishwasher that cleaned like crazy! I'm not sure, but I think we also sidexside GE fridge...but this was in the 70s/80s. Other than this, I think it's all been Kenmore/Whirlpool for me, and since I've RARELY ever had problems with them anywhere I've lived, I've just continued to use them. Now, I do like the looks of some of the GE appliances currently out....
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Though Whirlpool is doing well, they are the only Major appliance mfg. left in America. I know there are some like Speed Queen, I am not discounting them. What I mean is full line appliance manufacturers.
I am afraid appliances are going to become what TV sets have already. I lived in Illinois when the Motorola/Quasar plant closed in Quincy. Then GE took their TV mfg to France. Now there are no American made TV sets on the market.
I just question as a whole, what are we becoming? Just a society of consumers?
I will mourn GE, and pray that replacement parts are kept available. I truly think they are selling out Americans for the sake of a larger bottom line, if only temporary.
I am afraid appliances are going to become what TV sets have already. I lived in Illinois when the Motorola/Quasar plant closed in Quincy. Then GE took their TV mfg to France. Now there are no American made TV sets on the market.
I just question as a whole, what are we becoming? Just a society of consumers?
I will mourn GE, and pray that replacement parts are kept available. I truly think they are selling out Americans for the sake of a larger bottom line, if only temporary.
This can't be!
No! No! No! No! This can't be happening! This can't be! Are you serious? Tel me it isn't so! Plese tell m that this isn't true!
No! No! No! No! This can't be happening! This can't be! Are you serious? Tel me it isn't so! Plese tell m that this isn't true!
Seriously?
Tell me this isn't true! I have always thought so highly of GE!
Tell me this isn't true! I have always thought so highly of GE!
I just hope Hair keeps the GE site in Kentucky open.They should just provide operating capitol to the plant and make the machines as before.The cheapness goes from having to use cheaper and thinner metal-cost and allow for shipping.The thinner metal-lighter in weight for that overseas trip!I just hope Hair doesn't close that site down as TTI did when they took over the Royal and Hoover vacuum brands.
To GE itself-yes,think more profit is available from GE's jet engine division-providing engines for military planes and civilian airliners.Their turbine engines also power new Navy ships.At least the GE locomotives are still made in Erie,Pa rather than moved to Canada as GM EMD did-they closed and DEMOLISHED their LaGrainge,Il locomotive plant.GE locos are outselling EMD ones.The GE XRay and MRI imaging depts and equipment has been moved to China.Are you sure you want to be radiographed under Chinese GE gear???
To GE itself-yes,think more profit is available from GE's jet engine division-providing engines for military planes and civilian airliners.Their turbine engines also power new Navy ships.At least the GE locomotives are still made in Erie,Pa rather than moved to Canada as GM EMD did-they closed and DEMOLISHED their LaGrainge,Il locomotive plant.GE locos are outselling EMD ones.The GE XRay and MRI imaging depts and equipment has been moved to China.Are you sure you want to be radiographed under Chinese GE gear???
I'm not surprised at all. This year I bought a new GE fridge from Home Depot and to be honest I can't fit near as much food and things inside it even though it's supposedly larger than the old one it replaced, go figure. I ended up regretting buying it after I saw other brands and models at Sears, they looked better and had LED lighting and better shelf utilization. Very disappointed in GE. I plan on replacing my fridge later this year.
We had a MOL GE dishwasher that nearly caught our kitchen on fire when the thermostat went out and it kept getting hotter and hotter to the point the cabinets were extremely hot to touch, everything in the dishwasher had to be replaced. Two months after that happened there was a recall on thousands of their dishwashers over the same issue. GE knew about the faulty part but waited way to long to address it with their customer base.
When our old Kenmore washer died, I didn't even consider GE for replacement. Not even on the radar. Way to many complaints.
I'm wondering though if the stringent DOE guidelines on appliances had a lot to do with GE unloading their appliance division. Surely the complaints on the washers/dryers didn't go unnoticed. I read the complaints on the website Consumer Affairs and there is not one single positive review on their washers.
We had a MOL GE dishwasher that nearly caught our kitchen on fire when the thermostat went out and it kept getting hotter and hotter to the point the cabinets were extremely hot to touch, everything in the dishwasher had to be replaced. Two months after that happened there was a recall on thousands of their dishwashers over the same issue. GE knew about the faulty part but waited way to long to address it with their customer base.
When our old Kenmore washer died, I didn't even consider GE for replacement. Not even on the radar. Way to many complaints.
I'm wondering though if the stringent DOE guidelines on appliances had a lot to do with GE unloading their appliance division. Surely the complaints on the washers/dryers didn't go unnoticed. I read the complaints on the website Consumer Affairs and there is not one single positive review on their washers.
I'm gonna' have a good cry now.
toploader55
Well-known member
Exquisite Dissertation Nate as always.
Yes Louis, I am with you as far as a good cry.
Most of our family were Solid GE from the Early 50s through the late 60s. I do remember around 1966 Everything in our home from Small appliances to Major appliances were always GE.
Irons, Toasters, Percolators, Can Openers, Electric Carving Knives, Ranges, Refrigerators Dishwashers, Washers, Dryers, Hair Dryers (with the bonnet) and more were everywhere in our home and most of our families.
One line in a song comes to mind... "Those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end".
Now, I'm going to install the Reverse Rack JennAir as I do not have a GE Dishwasher in operation right now.
Yes Louis, I am with you as far as a good cry.
Most of our family were Solid GE from the Early 50s through the late 60s. I do remember around 1966 Everything in our home from Small appliances to Major appliances were always GE.
Irons, Toasters, Percolators, Can Openers, Electric Carving Knives, Ranges, Refrigerators Dishwashers, Washers, Dryers, Hair Dryers (with the bonnet) and more were everywhere in our home and most of our families.
One line in a song comes to mind... "Those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end".
Now, I'm going to install the Reverse Rack JennAir as I do not have a GE Dishwasher in operation right now.
