General Motors in the red.

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knitwits1975

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It seems like with these fuel crises and much of the population downsizing to smaller, more economical cars, the three big American automakers are all feeling the crunch. It seems like the biggest sufferer is GM. Maker of Hummer, Cadillac, and many others. It seems like the Japanese & German auto makers have the market cornered on the fuel misers. The hottest sellers in Seattle right now seem to be the Toyota Hybrids and Volkswagen diesels. The big SUV is giving way to these econo vehicles. Then to add insult to injury, resale values on the bigger American autos are plummeting, I've seen some sit for months in lots and driveways at well below NADA value. I just hope that GM, Ford, and Chrysler can all get themselves out of the red, because I have a love for the American car, and Blue-collar jobs. Please share your thoughts.

 
Actually I think the Chrysler division of Daimler-Chrysler finished the year with a profit, but the Mercedes division has been hemorraging cash (euros) all year. Chrysler seems to have hit the mark with their 300C, Dodge Magnum, and Dodge Charger offerings this past year or two. The return of the Hemi engine hasn't hurt, either, although from an engineering standpoint there's really nothing advantageous in the hemi design these days, not against the advanced head designs of most motors out today. The company has played its nostalgia card very well, from the 40's inspired PT Cruiser to the 70's inspired Charger. And Chrysler never had the really huge SUV's that Ford and GM were competing against each other to produce.

Can GM avoid bankruptcy? I don't know. But I think it's unlikely the government will be convinced to bail the company out like it did with Chrysler in the 70's. It's just too huge, and it's not evident that GM has any kind of rational plan to get back in the game.
 
I certainly agree about the Chryslers being popular.Around here particularly the 300C, the Dodge hemi station wagon what's it called, and the largest Dodge Rams are everywhere. Can't say the same for GM or Fords but then it may be I just don't notice because they're sort of invisible, except for the Ford F150 & 250's, they're a huge seller here as well, actually the biggest seller in Canada I think. I've barely seen any of those new Chev retro look whatever they ares. Cadillac Escalades now those you see a fair share of but not the cars. Even the newest Mustangs don't seem to have grabbed on like the previous versions of the last few years, those were a hot item then.
 
VW Diesel

As an owner of a diesel Beetle, I can only rejoice that the sales of disels and hybrids are on the rise. I wish biodiesel was more available or I could get the machine that makes biodiesel. Then I'd have the cleanest running car on the block. The emissions would smell like a deep fryer and no soot (like regular diesel).
 
Well, out here in the land of trucks (me being an owner of a Dodge Ram truck) I can't say that I've noticed a difference. About every other vehicle out here is a large or midsized SUV or pick-up.

Small cars just aren't that popular out here, and I could probably count on two hands how many hybrids I see out here in a months time.

I'm all for cleaner and high mileage vehicles, but so far the domestic auto makers (I don't buy foreign) haven't made a large truck that get's better mileage or is cleaner.
 
a mix around here....

I don't see one car more than another around here, we have lots of SUV's and lots of small cars too. I can say I don't see the GW vehicles like I used to, probably more Ford and Chrysler. Ther Ford Taurus is very popular around here, as is the Explorer SUV.
I've never owned any Chrysler, but I give them credit for the designs of their cars, daring, fun, retro, all good.
I used to be strictly GM, I grew up with GM parents too. My mom had a new Buick Electra 225 every 3-4 years til 1983 when they bought their first Cadillac. My dad drive Riveras, Wildcats, LeSabres and Regals. The last NEW GM car my parents had was a 1985 Buick LeSabre Collectors Edition, and they kept that car until 2004, trading it in for a Mercury Sable.
Today, I drive a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis, and my parents drive a 1997 Lincoln Towne Car and a 2004 Mercury Sable.
Its been a long time since GM had anything exciting on the market IMHO.
 
The new threat from China------

A new threat about to be unleashed on the American Automobile manufacturers (and economy) -------the *Geely* from China--------priced at about $10K NEW---the public will snatch them up! Wouldn't be suprised if Wal-Mart added them to their (already mostly Chinese) merchandise. Reliability------what the hell----after five years of use just throw them away-----a disposable car!

AND watch what happens to the larger vehicle market now that the government has FINALLY reqired the manufacturers to list more realistic mileage expectations!

Oh yeah, Chrysler, Ford and GM have much to fear.
 
I don't know about Chinese cars....

Korea already makes super cheap cars (they have a dealer here selling some sort of Kia minivan for like $11,000), and while Kia and others have started to make some inroads, there is no resale value to these cars. You're better off spending a little more, getting better crash worthiness, and retaining some sort of trade-in value. Some low end cars such as Daihatsu (remember the Charade?) have left the US. Even Mitsubishi is hurting.

There is little money in small cars. That is why the US focused on the hot SUV market, to make more money per unit.

It remains to be seen if the "throw away appliance" mentality of the buying public will transfer to cars. Yugo and others have tried this. China is not known for building quality merchandise, just cheap. The downside is that with their slave wages an invisible worker rights, they can flood our market with garbage.

I would not buy a Chinese made car, but then I would not step foot into a Prius, on nothing more than principle.
 
Yep, you guys are right about the SUV's. My neighbor has been trying for the past 4 months to get rid of a 2001 Chevy Suburban that is in pretty much perfect condition. He can't give that thing away! GM bet the farm on huge trucks and SUV's and lost! Big GM trucks are built quite well, and are rather reliable vehicles. Putting this sort of effort into their car lineup would have kept them running good.

GM however chose to tarnish the reputation of two of their best car engines. The 3800 engine, designed by Buick in the 70's used to be one of their most reliable motors...one that people would specifically ask for in a vehicle. It was primarily used in most of GM's mid-size and full size cars. Thanks to a bad intake manifold design they started using in 1999, these engines are destroying themselves at around 70,000 miles. The 4.3 liter V6 based on the small block chevy V8 has had it's shares of woes since 2001 when they set the engine up to distributorless ignition. A chevy motor uses the distributor to turn the oil pump without a distributor, there's not way to turn the oil pump. They ended up going to a direct drive oil pump right off the crank...only problem is that it takes too long to build up oil pressure, and the engine will run for up to 30 seconds without oil pressure on cold mornings. The engines are effectively self-destruting!

Hurting it's reputable products is not any way to run a business in anybodys book! GM's answer to the problems with these engines? It isn't to fix the errors the made, it's scrap the designs and start from scratch!...with a new design that's sure to have a new share of bugs and problems in it's own right!
 
GM missing Frigidaire

Probably not...I wonder if GM unhorsed Frigidaire to try and slim-down toward the end of the seventies after the bad times they had then (and while they were still reeling to try and get in the game with fuel economy--note the craptastic little X cars like the Buick Skylark, Chevy Citation, and friends).

Thing is, I wonder if they could do something similar to shave the fat now? Short of losing lots of jobs and ditching Buick and/or Pontiac, I wonder...

I think they can overcome this, but I don't think megacorporations turn on a dime, either.
 
As much as I want to root for GM, Chrysler and Ford, their vehicles just aren't as reliable and refined as the Japanese makes. I considered a Chevy Malibu (which is really a cousin of the Saab 9-3), but it appears reliability is not great with them. Then I considered a Ford Focus, which gets great reviews, but again, reliability is only average. Prior to getting a Geo Prizm in 1994 (which is actually a twin of the Toyota Corolla), all my cars were GM. This car has saved me a couple thousand dollars in repairs over its lifespan as compared to the GM cars I owned.

My Prizm is at 189,000 miles and I've only replaced a belt, hoses, brake pads and an alternator shield. I've never ONCE added oil between changes. It purrs like a kitten, I drive 80 mph on the highway and there isn't a rattle or squeak anywhere in the car. With my GM cars, I was shelling out bucks regularly for substantial repairs by 90,000 miles.

As far as 'buying American' goes, what does that actually mean, anymore? Most Toyota cars sold in this country are now made in this country, aren't they?

Again, the question for me is this: Why does GM continue to churn out ugly cars with paint colors that have the sophistication of a Matchbox car? Why aren't they as reliable as Toyatas and Hondas? No one is forcing people to buy Japanese cars. In fact, with all the price incentives, it's cheaper to buy a GM or Ford. It's in the quality, folks.

Something to notice: As you're driving down the highway, take a look at how many oncoming GM vehicles (especially SUVs and pickups, but cars as well) have one daytime running light out. Once you notice it, you'll be amazed at how many there are, compared to vehicles of other makes. I know that's a small thing, but again, it comes down to quality.
 
I'm not a huge fan of GM persay, but I love love love the Saturn brand!

We've owned a 1996 Saturn SL2 since it was new and we've never had major problems with it. It's fast approaching it's 200,000 mile mark and it's still going strong.

We also used to own a 2000 Saturn LS200 (yes we were a Saturn family) and thought it was a wonderful car alongside our SL2. The only reason we don't have the LS200 was because it got totaled in a highway accident (not our fault).

I got away from Saturns only because I've been madly in love with Dodge Rams since their new body style introduction back in 1994. I knew I had to have one, and I honestly can't say that I've had any problems with my truck. It's a 1999 with just under 80,000 miles.

I'm waiting on pins and needles for Saturn to introduce their new sedan, the Aura, that will be replacing the L series. I'm already in love with the pictures I've seen of it, and really want this car as my second car.

If Saturn ever made a large truck, I would probably be all over it because Saturn cars are so darn dependable IMO.
 
Bankrupt

G.M. is introducing their 2007 large SUV's such as the Tahoe this Spring. Just in time for $3.00 gas again. Unless you really need to tow, there are plenty of other vehicles which will do what these large SUV's do.

I have a 2003 Crown Victoria, because I prefer Rear-Drive, and don't like to spend a fortune for it. With G.M. to get a Rear-Drive car I would have to get a Cadillac, unless I lived in China or Australia.

I think that G.M.'s line up is so weak right now that they will go bankrupt, and perhaps that is their plan. No, they won't disappear, and they can dump their pension plan and health plan for retirees. This will put them on an equal footing with Toyota. They will be able to price their cars $2500 less than now without those obligations.

Ford is next. They dumped the Rear-Drive Lincoln LS and replaced it with a $29,000 tarted up Mazda (Lincoln Zephyr). Next to go will be the Town Car, Grand Marquis and Crown Vic. Granted they are older designs, but Ford has no planned replacements.
 
Quality is measured...

in a lot of ways, and we all have our experiences.

My company provides fleet American cars. These are typically basic models. So far I have had a Taurus Wagon, a Chevy Venture, and now on a new Taurus sedan. I have not had one problem with any of them, and these were driven pretty hard. Not a squeak, rattle or service call besides tires and brakes.

My 1988 GT Mustang? 197,000 on original engine. My dad got 188,000 out of his '85 Mercury Marquis.

Many of the "quality" standards are on "initial quality". And if you look at the data on the tests, the scores are insanely close at times. Recent reports? Buick is one of the highest quality cars, and Mercedes is ranked low! But you would never know that, because many people's perception of quality has never changed for domestic automobiles since the 80s when American manufacturers WERE producing inferior cars.

My wife's 7 series BMW that we traded in last year had both its walnut shift console and knob just crack. I put up enough of a yellfest at the dealer that they replaced them for me...this would have cost me $600. A catalytic converter failed (who ever had that happen), and two of the rear window shades broke. The car started running hot before we traded it and no one knew why. That's quality?

As far as Japanese cars being so much greater, again, I think it's a matter of personal experience. Two reps where I used to work had Honda Accords with 90-100,000 miles on them, and they were both rattle traps and you could feel your rear bottom out on the crummy seats. They were so bad that I would not ride with the reps and just take my own car. However, my sister has bought Nissans for years and loves them.

I don't buy the wholesale line that imports are better quality than domestics...and I have owned many many cars. I will say that GM makes boring cars, and that many domestic dealerships treat you poorly.
 
GMH (General Motors Holden) in australia, has spent billions of dollars over the last 5 years, developing our Commodore (Large rear wheel drive sedan/Wagon Australia's most popular large sedan) to become a multi country platform. The idea being that GM could save money in all countries by having a standard product. (kind of like Toyota with the Camry)

With the issues at GM US, they've now pulled the plug on that plan, and GM US is going to develop its own new FWD models for 2007. (Thats just what they need, more US designs based on outdated technology.) The downside to all this, is that GMH AU is now experiencing financial hardship, due to the expenditure that went into developing the multiplatform basis with the Commodore. Billions of dollars wasted and now no return.

If GM is making these decisions and then changing their minds, its no wonder they are in the precarious position that they're in.

On another note, Mistubishi in Australia is on the verge of going bankrupt, they staked their future on the New 380 (Magna replacement), which is based on the US Galant, and unfortunately like most US cars that come to Australia, its been rejected by even traditional Magna buyers. The old Magna design was approaching 10 years old and this was supposed to be the update that would save the company.

They're that desperate to sell the new car, that they come standard with a 5 year, 130K warranty on the whole car, and 10 year 160K warranty on the drivetrain. They've just upped the deal and now offer 5yrs 75K scheduled servicing. The cars are so far up to about 1200 units per month, Mitsubishi need to see 2500 units per month to make it profitable. Heres hoping the pace picks up.

If Mitsubishi goes under, then so will most of our domestic automotive component manufacturers.

On another note, I attach the following exerpt from Toyota, and how in 2006 their sales are expecting to top GM's in the US for the first time in 70 years, and how they're looking to get rid of the whitegoods on wheels image of the Camry.

New curvy Camry takes on the world

Full story06 January 2006

The new car that could drive Toyota to the top of the world will be unveiled in Detroit on Monday.

It is the all-new Camry, which could make the critical difference as Toyota looks to drive past the ailing General Motors corporation this year.

The Camry will be built and sold around the world, including Australia, and has a new and much more stylish look.

Full details will not be revealed until next week.

Preview pictures show a move away from the slab sides and angular ends of the current Camry to a more-rounded design that is visually linked to the latest Lexus IS and GS sedans.

It should be significantly bigger inside, but its biggest job will be to end the "whitegoods on wheels" reputation the Camry has had for more than 10 years.

Toyota knows the key to that change is how the car looks and it believes the newcomer is easily the most stylish vehicle to wear the Camry badge.

But it will also push the technology angle.

The unveiling in Detroit will include confirmation the Camry will be built for the first time with an optional Prius-style petrol-electric drive train.

Production of the Camry hybrid will be restricted.

But Toyota Australia has a history of taking early supplies of any available hybrids -- with the Lexus GS and RX to join the line-up this year -- so it is an odds-on bet for Down Under deliveries.

The Detroit Motor Show was chosen because the Camry has been the best-selling car in the US for seven of the past eight years. It is also the first big motor show of the new year.

The new Camry will be seen in Australia for the first time at the Melbourne Motor Show next month, when Toyota Australia also plans to reveal the Camry-based replacement for the Avalon.

The production plan for the new car is still being finalised, but it is likely to be built in at least nine factories around the world. It could also be assembled in China for the first time.

Australia will continue as the designated supply site for the Middle East but the company hopes to win extra overseas business.

The new Camry comes as Toyota Motor Company sets its global production target at 9.06 million vehicles, a total that could easily take it past General Motors for the first time.

It is a 10 per cent lift on Toyota's result for last year, at a time when General Motors and Ford are suffering declining sales.

It has been only three years since Toyota moved past Ford on the global sales charts, taking second place despite the Blue Oval's ownership of a range of other car marques as diverse as Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Mazda.

G M and Ford are in deep trouble and have announced layoffs in the US. GM is also closing factories.

If General Motors is unseated by Toyota, it will end the company's unbeaten run of more than 70 years at No.1, as well as signalling the final victory by Japan in its battle against America's domination.

Toyota is already the world's healthiest car company. It as a capitalisation of more than $250 billion, which is more than the combined net worth of GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler.

It is likely to post a profit of more than $15 billion at the end of the Japanese financial year in March, at a time when GM is losing billions and Ford is battling to stay in the black.
 

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