German Dishwasher Tabs

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mrboilwash

mrboilwash

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I have the latest issue of Stiftung Warentest and they tested 5 different solo tabs (only detergent) and 17 multi tabs (detergent with rinseaid, salt substitution and other functions claimed)
I think I should share some of the results because some products are sold in the US and the UK as well.

The best Solo was Calgonit Powerball Classic rated good (2,0)
2nd best was Somat 1 rated good (2,2)

Best "Multi" was Somat 7, rated good (2,1)
Followed by another Somat version and several Store Brands.
Calgonit Quantum came out still "good" at 2,5 overall score.

The worst product and dead last in the test was "Claro 7in1 Multi" rated inadequate (5,0)
 
Good?

I have some Somat 7s, and I rate them "EXCELLENT!" I just wish they were easier to get here in the States.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Lawrence,

You are a dear!
Do call soon, I am reachable tomorrow!
Not today!

Yes, German dishwasher detergents clean well. Instead of castrating them, we beefed up our sewage treatment plants.

American dishwashers using German dishwasher detergent clean without pre-scrubbing or rinsing. Even and especially starchy foods and eggs. That finely sprayed mashed potato effect we all know so well is gone!
 
Calgonite

The Calgonite Powerball is exactly the same detergent as America's Electrosol tabs.I use nothing else,always get a huge cannister @ Costco.
 
Wow thats interesting! I use the Miele Tabs made by Claro and get better results from it than with Cascade 2 in 1 tabs w/Dawn. I can find the Somat rinse aid here but not the detergent.
I also have under the counter of my sink the Electrosol Tabs with presoak Powerball...that does a great job. I use a tab in the Pots and Pans cycle and Intensive cycles when I choose the soak option on my Miele dishwasher. So I end up using 2 tabs...one for the soak and one for the Main wash. I also have the Quixtar DishDrops Powder that does a great job as well and leaves a nice scent...smells like a clean soap smell...I am kinda like a detergent whore and I live variety.
 
I was quite surprised about those Austrian Claro Tabs being THAT bad.
I have bought their powder, because it is the only one I have seen for ages in a decent container. All other brands are only sold in sloppy plastic bags. It works OK for me but I have to use a lot of it to get good results.
Major complaints about the Claro 7in1 Tabs was poor cleaning and they were not accetable for spotting (limescale).
Keven, you might find it interesting, that Schlecker AS Ultra are good (2,4) but not their 5in1s (2,7). Unfortunately I can not use these because the upper spray arm of my Bosch freezes in the last rinse, when the spray pressure is low. Somat1 seems to contain more "lubricants", so I`ll stick to them.
 
My first choice also is Calgonit Powerball, because it works best for me, especially on glasses.
I had Somat 1 before, but I sometimes was a bit disappointed of the washing results. It especially does not work good on fatty items.
2 months ago, I ordered a test package of the Claro Tabs and Claro send me 2 tabs for free.
I was quite satisfied with the washing results, even items of my Jura coffemaker went sparkling clean.
I think I´m going to test Claro powder when I get to Metro next time. I stopped using cheap dishwashing detergent in my new Bosch beacause I think my old dishwasher went siffy because of them.

mrboilwash,
if the upper spray arm does not run, so I think your machine doesn´t use enough water.
Had the same problem with my AEG, it was just a small defect on a pipe, better said, it was full of lime.
And because of that we bought a new machine..but I´m going to sell the AEG.
 
I have not had Calgonit Powerball for a long time, maybe I should give them a try.
I also find glasses look better with the Claro Powder than with Somat1 Tabs. This might be because I just use more powder for very fatty loads, but I would never throw in a second Tab.
The problem with the upper spray arm not running in the last rinse is present since the first day I have had the Bosch.
Back then I used Aldi Tabs, which were the same as todays AS Ultra. I have had a lot of service calls because of the upper spray arm and finally got the machine replaced, because they couldnt fix it. Bosch even gave me a brand new better model. Had the same problem again, switched to Somat and everything was fine. If I use the Claro powder more than 3 times uninterrupted my machine goes on stike.
 
Guy, if your Somat Tabs only have two layers and the directions on the box advise you to use seperate salt for the water softener unit and seperate rinse aid, then its Somat 1.
The others would look similar as Electrosol with a Powerball.
 
Upper arm froze

My Miele's middle arm was freezing up too - and when I switched to Somat it ran perfectly.
Called Miele support, they said some tablets don't dissolve well and to switch brands.
Regarding the lower ratings, well, let's remember that Stiftung Warrentest is perfectly capable of giving a Miele refrigerator a 2.2 and the identical Bosch a 2.0...their priorities include things like the biodegradability of the packaging and the ease of use of the instructions...
I am glad AS ranked so well - I have long suspected we are paying through our noses for some of the 'brand names' in Germany when the 'house' brands will do just as well.
I might add that their is a Schlecker not even 20 steps from my appartment building and I do the buying for myself as well as an older woman in the building so the short distance to carry heavy stuff weighs in their favor.
Except for Walgreen's, Americans have lost most of their drug-stores to Walmart. At least out here in the West.
 
Their rating priorities are a bit weird sometimes, but it is fun to read.
We also have a similar magazine called Ökotest whose main focus is the protection of the enviroment and consumer and not to forget the children (lol)
So some products like, lets say a particular deodorant for example, can get very good ratings in one magazine because it works good and bad ratings in the other because it contains bad ingredients to make it work at all.
 
Ökotest

I remember Ökotest rejecting smoke detecters (Germany is the only European country which does not use them routinely, we also have a very high loss of life to smoke inhalation) because they contain a minute amount of a radioactive isotope. That idiot magazine tore them to pieces.
Same with just about every product which had any connection to the USofA or was fun, easy to use or made life easier for busy people.
My ex- reads it religiously and would fight with me tooth and nail about everything which Ökotest had rejected. Flouride in toothpaste? May the gods forfend. Iodine in Salt? The end of civilization. Automatic dishwashers? Satan's tools!
When I was living in a flat without heat in my bedroom and -20 winters (celsius or Fahrenheit, doesn't matter) he threw out my electric blanket because Ökotest said it 'generated' magnetic fields.

Today, if Ökotest is against it, I am probably for it.
 
Smoke Detectors in Germany

I was surprised to learn that smoke detectors are still not used routinely in Germany. I know the local fire departments recommend the installation of them, but wasn't aware that they are not widely used.

The fire department in Munich certainly recommends them. Rauchmelder..."Eine Investition die Leben retten kann!"

In the early 1980's I was living in Landsberg am Lech and I remember asking my landlady about smoke detectors and she had never heard of them, I convinced her to allow me to have one sent from the states and install it.

I don't know if it is still a problem today, but I remember that there seemed to quite a few fires started by defective television sets. Do you know if that is still a problem...?

http://www.feuerwehr.muenchen.de/bda0pres/idx_a0.htm
 
Nope,

That problem was focussed primarily on TV sets from the UdSSR.
Of course, any electronic device which attracts dust and settles tar from cigarette smoke like CRT based TVs do will build up a very flammable contamination over time.

Anyway, the big TV-up-in-flames problem is long gone.

My current apartment in Munich has a smoke detector, but that is only because it is very new construction and the city council had control over safety features. The German Rail System fought them passionately long after the rest of Europe had mandated them.

Partly, I think, it was a reaction to Chernobyl, partly the fact that the first generations reacted to cigarette smoke and, for many years, non-smokers in Germany were second class citizens (people actually told me that because I didn't drink or smoke, I couldn't really enjoy gay life!).

Unfortunately, we are still lagging way behind. The Dutch and the English figure they have saved tens of thousands of lives through early incorporation of smoke detectors.

Incredible what a 5Euro device can do - and even more incredible the resistance to it.

Speaking of which, the vaccination against salmonella which was successfully developed in the GDR is still not in common use...Not Invented Here is the greatest weakness of Bavarian society.
 
Dishwasher detergent

I do not use tabs because I cannot dose them and our machine needs 1/4 of the total amount for the pre-rinse (pre-wash) cycle, but I never used anything else than SOMAT since my first dishwasher in 1984!
And for Keven I have to add to the given information about his ex and the Öko-Test magazine: German housewives fought endless discussions against dish-washers in the 1970-80s when someone bought one. Their arguments: "I'm not too lazy to do that bit of washing-up by hand, I do not need such a superflue machine! People who want such a machine are just Mrs. Ladeedadees and simply just lazy!" Everything that comes up here in Germany is bad stuff first and especially stuff that comes from crazy America!

Ralf
 
I'm confused...EU dishwashers have built-in salt-based water softeners. US dishwashers don't. How do the detergents differ? Assume that US includes more phosphates to provide the water softening...does that just mean that a European 7-in-1 is equal to our high-end (i.e. Cascade or Electrasol enzyme-based) detergents? How do cheap European detergents work, then?
 
Sadly, no

Jamie, there are historical reasons why US detergents have far less phosphates (anal retentives, I refuse to get into a phosphorus/effective phosphate discussion) than European detergents.

By the end of the 1960's, many Americans were worried about the effect detergents were having on lakes and streams. Europeans didn't care in those days. (It is hard to believe today, but once upon a time, the US led the world in environmental protection. That was before the christianists took over).

There were two possible alternatives - ban the phosphates/reduce them sharply or build sewage treatment facilities which could cope with them.

The US pretty much went for banning. Europe, many many many years later, finally woke up - about the time the suds were so thick, the dead fish not only floated on the water, but you could walk on it, it was so choked - and built sewage treatment plants which could cope with phosphates.

Yes, we use water softeners and, yes, generally speaking, we use longer cycles and hotter water. But our detergents are not castrated like here in the US.

Some of it is cultural, Europeans have a much lower tolerance for poor quality and inefficient machinery than Americans do. When we look at 'saving time', we weight the time spent *not* pre-rinsing and *not* pre-scrubbing even the dirtiest stuff together with the time *not* spent re-doing dishes which come out with baked on ick far far higher than the slightly longer time the machine runs unattended.

Now that US dishwashers can heat water and US detergents now use enzymes, many of the differences are disappearing. Still, a dishwasher detergent with 38% phosphates, enzymes and oxygen bleach will run rings around one with 8% phosphates or less - and that is what most US detergents are stuck with.
 
Ralf, where do you put the Somat powder for storage ?
I would like to switch back to powders instead of those expensive Tabs, but I hate the idea to put the powder in Tupperware and use a tablespoon for dosing.
 
Stefan, versuchs mit einen Zuckerstreuer

Until I switched to tabs, I used one of those large spout sugar jars - you know the kind, you pick it up and turn it over and a fixed amount of 'sugar' pours out. The amount was just about exactly what my Miele wanted for one load.
You can buy them in plastic at Woolworth's under Stachus or, much nicer, at WMF.

http://www.edelstahl-in-bestform.de/im-shop-bestellen/4256-zuckerstreuer.html
 
Hey Stefan,
wenn ich mich recht erinnere führt Henkel Somat-Pulverflaschen.
Die gibt es unter 0800 1112726, ruf am besten spät abends an, dann sind die Ladys weg und das Computerband geht dran, dann wählst du gleich am anfang >sonstiges<.(das Ding is soagr kostenlos)
Sorry, guys!
Let´s go on in english.
I´m experiencing problems with the Calgonit Powerball Tabs, after the cycle there are residues around the pattern of the plates.
All items are sparkling clean, except those plates!
It doesn´t matter in which dishwasher I wash them and when I used Somat1 I didn´t have problems like this.
Did anybody else have problems like this?

At the moment those plates are being washed on a 50° VarioSpeed cycle after I scrubbed them with dishwashing liquid and hot water.

Did any of you Germans try the denkmit powdered dishwashing detergent from dm?
I tried it in October last year and was very satisfied with it and it had a great smell, it smelled just like laundry detergent!
It only costs 1.45 € and you can do about 30-40 loads with.#
You should test it!
 
Thanks guys for the input.
I have modified all my sugar jars in a way not to get a fixed amount :-) I cut off the part of the pipe in the jar and use a teespoon as a dosing device to sweeten my coffee to perfection. I`ve always found the fixed amount to vary badly when the jar empties. I`m such a nitpicker *lol*
 
Hard Water In Europe

For the most part, many places in the EU and UK have water that ranges from hard to down right solid (*LOL*), even the hardest water found in areas of the United States would mostly be considered soft on the other side of the pond. This is why those using Persil and other European detergents in the States can get by for the most part with a very reduced dosage.

Hard water not only causes problems with automatic dishwashing and laundry, it is very bad for those machines in terms of how mineral deposits can collect and eventually kill the interal heating elements found on all washing machines and dishwashers on the EU side of the pond, hence the built in water softeners for dishwashers. Washing machines get buy with having special chemicals in detergents to prevent limescale formation. Even so many in the UK/EU run "Calgon" through their washing machines (and sometimes dishwashers) to clear out the crud. Once heating elements are attacked by limescale, they are soon not long for the world. This is common and happens to any heating element immersed in water. From hot water heaters, to boilers, to kettles, etc.

In the United States, most homes in areas with hard water, and or high iron content, normally go for whole home water softeners, which is probably the main reason one does not see built in water softeners on American dishwashers.

Regarding phosphates and the EU/UK

Despite the plethora of chemicals designed to replace phosphates, not one single chemical deals with hard water alone the way phosphates can. So while it may not be totally environmentally correct to use tons of the stuff, from a chemcial composition and cost point of view, it certianly is cheaper to use lots of phosphates than have to come up with a chemical cocktail containing several other substances to do the job.
 
Thanks, Landress

You always hit the nail on the head.
Phosphates just plain work better than anything else I know of.
We have a joke in Munich, when you drop a glass of water it is 50/50 which will break first - the glass or the water.

Ja, ich habe Denkmit probiert, es war ok.
 
sorry wasn't here for quite a while...

Well I keep our Somat powder in a round plastic container with srew lid that can hold about 2 kg and just pour it into the dispenser from there...

Ralf
 
I wonder what those "Multi-Tabs" will do to the dishwashers heating element when used solely for a longer time.
Those "Multi-Tabs" claim the user does not need to fill the rinse aid dispenser and water softener unit if water hardness is below a certain degree, otherwise there must be added salt at least. Munich tap water is even a tad softer than the minimum requirements so I could still try them and the results of most such products are fair, according to "Test".
But even if they manage to keep the dishes relatively free of hard water spots, I seriously doubt they can keep the element free of limescale in the last rinse with a cold start.
Guess I will better stick to powder or normal Tabs, which are both a kind of endangered species in Germany.
BTW whole home water softeners are very rare here,I think it`s because we believe that hard drinking water is healthier and people are also afraid of the extra sodium contibution.
 
Hallo Stefan!

Ja, das Problem mit der deutschen Angst kennen wir ja zur Genüge... Manchmal ist es angebracht, meistens weniger...

O.K., O.K.....English again! But...actually....why? German is such a lovely language - and I mean it earnestly!

The thing with the tabs is the following: They contain all the ingedients that a regular powder has PLUS extra water-softener (more STTP + SASil) and a littel "ball" that contains the rinsing-agent in a thermo-dissolving membrane capsule which does not dissolve until the water-temperature rises above 60°C. Therefor you must not do a cycle with more than 60°C in the main-wash, as otherwise the capsule will dissolve already during the washing cycle! But then you cannot use your regular 65°C or even the "pots'n'pans-70°C-cycle" anymore! And temperatures between 45° and 60°C sometimes aren't strong enough to get really crusty dirt washed away!

BUT: normally German dish-washers also soften the water during ALL cycles (pre-rinse, pre-wash, main-wash, intermediate-rinse and final-rinse) and not only during the main-wash, which then they do when using the tabs solely.

That's also the reason for the hint on the package to use salt in the machine's own water softener unit, regardless to the softener that is already built in the tabs, when you have extra hard water in your area.
If you do not so, there will built up lime-scale during the other cycles and the dosis of water softener in the tabs isn't strong enough to wash the calcium away with the next load you will do.
Also in the final rinse a cloudy greyish layer can build up on glasses when water is too hard.

And that's the reason why I always say: "Away with all that modern fancy rubbish! A dishwasher has a compartment for salt and a compartment for rinsing agent plus a compartment for detergents! So, use them! They are not made for embellishment!!"
Last but not least: powder can always be used ADEQUATELY to the soiling - less for the dishes, glasses and cuttlery of a birthday's coffee-chat ("Geburtstagskaffeeklatsch") and more for the extra cleaniness of pots and pans of a Sunday's meal!

Ralf
 
Ralf, I absolutely agree with you about the "modern fancy rubbish". Powder and separate salt and rinse aid is probably the best solution. But if you consider the enormous shelf space given to those new Xin1 Tabs and how little is left to traditional products, I find it hard to ignore them totally.

I`ve heard about the temperature controled membrane thing. But as you said, this technology restricts the user to a certain wash temperature profile and therefore is the exception.
You will be surprised to hear that some of those Multi Tabs dissolve completely and instantly in cold water. So I guess the rinse aid effect in most cases is just archieved with more water softeners and more surfactants.

I think you misunderstood what I meant about useing those Tabs solely (and for a longer period of time). I don`t know if Euro dishwashers soften all their water or only for the heated parts of the programes.
However if one does not fill the softener with salt as adviced by the Tabs directions it can not soften the water at all. So I am just concerned if the dillution of those Tabs might be too strong to prevent limescale buildup on the heating element in the last rinse.
 

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