German Dishwasher Tabs

[mrboilwash]

I have the latest issue of Stiftung Warentest and they tested 5 different solo tabs (only detergent) and 17 multi tabs (detergent with rinseaid, salt substitution and other functions claimed)
I think I should share some of the results because some products are sold in the US and the UK as well.

The best Solo was Calgonit Powerball Classic rated good (2,0)
2nd best was Somat 1 rated good (2,2)

Best "Multi" was Somat 7, rated good (2,1)
Followed by another Somat version and several Store Brands.
Calgonit Quantum came out still "good" at 2,5 overall score.

The worst product and dead last in the test was "Claro 7in1 Multi" rated inadequate (5,0)

 

[maytagbear]

Good?

I have some Somat 7s, and I rate them "EXCELLENT!" I just wish they were easier to get here in the States.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[panthera]

Lawrence,

You are a dear!
Do call soon, I am reachable tomorrow!
Not today!

Yes, German dishwasher detergents clean well. Instead of castrating them, we beefed up our sewage treatment plants.

American dishwashers using German dishwasher detergent clean without pre-scrubbing or rinsing. Even and especially starchy foods and eggs. That finely sprayed mashed potato effect we all know so well is gone!

 

[laundromat]

Calgonite

The Calgonite Powerball is exactly the same detergent as America's Electrosol tabs.I use nothing else,always get a huge cannister @ Costco.

 

[nmaineman36]

Wow thats interesting! I use the Miele Tabs made by Claro and get better results from it than with Cascade 2 in 1 tabs w/Dawn. I can find the Somat rinse aid here but not the detergent.
I also have under the counter of my sink the Electrosol Tabs with presoak Powerball...that does a great job. I use a tab in the Pots and Pans cycle and Intensive cycles when I choose the soak option on my Miele dishwasher. So I end up using 2 tabs...one for the soak and one for the Main wash. I also have the Quixtar DishDrops Powder that does a great job as well and leaves a nice scent...smells like a clean soap smell...I am kinda like a detergent whore and I live variety.

 

[mrboilwash]

I was quite surprised about those Austrian Claro Tabs being THAT bad.
I have bought their powder, because it is the only one I have seen for ages in a decent container. All other brands are only sold in sloppy plastic bags. It works OK for me but I have to use a lot of it to get good results.
Major complaints about the Claro 7in1 Tabs was poor cleaning and they were not accetable for spotting (limescale).
Keven, you might find it interesting, that Schlecker AS Ultra are good (2,4) but not their 5in1s (2,7). Unfortunately I can not use these because the upper spray arm of my Bosch freezes in the last rinse, when the spray pressure is low. Somat1 seems to contain more "lubricants", so I`ll stick to them.

 

[lavamat78800]

My first choice also is Calgonit Powerball, because it works best for me, especially on glasses.
I had Somat 1 before, but I sometimes was a bit disappointed of the washing results. It especially does not work good on fatty items.
2 months ago, I ordered a test package of the Claro Tabs and Claro send me 2 tabs for free.
I was quite satisfied with the washing results, even items of my Jura coffemaker went sparkling clean.
I think I´m going to test Claro powder when I get to Metro next time. I stopped using cheap dishwashing detergent in my new Bosch beacause I think my old dishwasher went siffy because of them.

mrboilwash,
if the upper spray arm does not run, so I think your machine doesn´t use enough water.
Had the same problem with my AEG, it was just a small defect on a pipe, better said, it was full of lime.
And because of that we bought a new machine..but I´m going to sell the AEG.

 

[mrboilwash]

I have not had Calgonit Powerball for a long time, maybe I should give them a try.
I also find glasses look better with the Claro Powder than with Somat1 Tabs. This might be because I just use more powder for very fatty loads, but I would never throw in a second Tab.
The problem with the upper spray arm not running in the last rinse is present since the first day I have had the Bosch.
Back then I used Aldi Tabs, which were the same as todays AS Ultra. I have had a lot of service calls because of the upper spray arm and finally got the machine replaced, because they couldnt fix it. Bosch even gave me a brand new better model. Had the same problem again, switched to Somat and everything was fine. If I use the Claro powder more than 3 times uninterrupted my machine goes on stike.

 

[bellalaundry]

I have Somat tabs...

which I like, but how can I tell if they 1 or 7?

Guy

 

[mrboilwash]

Guy, if your Somat Tabs only have two layers and the directions on the box advise you to use seperate salt for the water softener unit and seperate rinse aid, then its Somat 1.
The others would look similar as Electrosol with a Powerball.

 

[panthera]

Upper arm froze

My Miele's middle arm was freezing up too - and when I switched to Somat it ran perfectly.
Called Miele support, they said some tablets don't dissolve well and to switch brands.
Regarding the lower ratings, well, let's remember that Stiftung Warrentest is perfectly capable of giving a Miele refrigerator a 2.2 and the identical Bosch a 2.0...their priorities include things like the biodegradability of the packaging and the ease of use of the instructions...
I am glad AS ranked so well - I have long suspected we are paying through our noses for some of the 'brand names' in Germany when the 'house' brands will do just as well.
I might add that their is a Schlecker not even 20 steps from my appartment building and I do the buying for myself as well as an older woman in the building so the short distance to carry heavy stuff weighs in their favor.
Except for Walgreen's, Americans have lost most of their drug-stores to Walmart. At least out here in the West.

 

[mrboilwash]

Their rating priorities are a bit weird sometimes, but it is fun to read.
We also have a similar magazine called Ökotest whose main focus is the protection of the enviroment and consumer and not to forget the children (lol)
So some products like, lets say a particular deodorant for example, can get very good ratings in one magazine because it works good and bad ratings in the other because it contains bad ingredients to make it work at all.

 

[panthera]

Ökotest

I remember Ökotest rejecting smoke detecters (Germany is the only European country which does not use them routinely, we also have a very high loss of life to smoke inhalation) because they contain a minute amount of a radioactive isotope. That idiot magazine tore them to pieces.
Same with just about every product which had any connection to the USofA or was fun, easy to use or made life easier for busy people.
My ex- reads it religiously and would fight with me tooth and nail about everything which Ökotest had rejected. Flouride in toothpaste? May the gods forfend. Iodine in Salt? The end of civilization. Automatic dishwashers? Satan's tools!
When I was living in a flat without heat in my bedroom and -20 winters (celsius or Fahrenheit, doesn't matter) he threw out my electric blanket because Ökotest said it 'generated' magnetic fields.

Today, if Ökotest is against it, I am probably for it.

 

[kenb]

Smoke Detectors in Germany

I was surprised to learn that smoke detectors are still not used routinely in Germany. I know the local fire departments recommend the installation of them, but wasn't aware that they are not widely used.

The fire department in Munich certainly recommends them. Rauchmelder..."Eine Investition die Leben retten kann!"

In the early 1980's I was living in Landsberg am Lech and I remember asking my landlady about smoke detectors and she had never heard of them, I convinced her to allow me to have one sent from the states and install it.

I don't know if it is still a problem today, but I remember that there seemed to quite a few fires started by defective television sets. Do you know if that is still a problem...?

http://www.feuerwehr.muenchen.de/bda0pres/idx_a0.htm

 

[panthera]

Nope,

That problem was focussed primarily on TV sets from the UdSSR.
Of course, any electronic device which attracts dust and settles tar from cigarette smoke like CRT based TVs do will build up a very flammable contamination over time.

Anyway, the big TV-up-in-flames problem is long gone.

My current apartment in Munich has a smoke detector, but that is only because it is very new construction and the city council had control over safety features. The German Rail System fought them passionately long after the rest of Europe had mandated them.

Partly, I think, it was a reaction to Chernobyl, partly the fact that the first generations reacted to cigarette smoke and, for many years, non-smokers in Germany were second class citizens (people actually told me that because I didn't drink or smoke, I couldn't really enjoy gay life!).

Unfortunately, we are still lagging way behind. The Dutch and the English figure they have saved tens of thousands of lives through early incorporation of smoke detectors.

Incredible what a 5Euro device can do - and even more incredible the resistance to it.

Speaking of which, the vaccination against salmonella which was successfully developed in the GDR is still not in common use...Not Invented Here is the greatest weakness of Bavarian society.

 

[lederstiefel1]

Dishwasher detergent

I do not use tabs because I cannot dose them and our machine needs 1/4 of the total amount for the pre-rinse (pre-wash) cycle, but I never used anything else than SOMAT since my first dishwasher in 1984!
And for Keven I have to add to the given information about his ex and the Öko-Test magazine: German housewives fought endless discussions against dish-washers in the 1970-80s when someone bought one. Their arguments: "I'm not too lazy to do that bit of washing-up by hand, I do not need such a superflue machine! People who want such a machine are just Mrs. Ladeedadees and simply just lazy!" Everything that comes up here in Germany is bad stuff first and especially stuff that comes from crazy America!

Ralf

 

[jamiel]

I'm confused...EU dishwashers have built-in salt-based water softeners. US dishwashers don't. How do the detergents differ? Assume that US includes more phosphates to provide the water softening...does that just mean that a European 7-in-1 is equal to our high-end (i.e. Cascade or Electrasol enzyme-based) detergents? How do cheap European detergents work, then?

 

[panthera]

Sadly, no

Jamie, there are historical reasons why US detergents have far less phosphates (anal retentives, I refuse to get into a phosphorus/effective phosphate discussion) than European detergents.

By the end of the 1960's, many Americans were worried about the effect detergents were having on lakes and streams. Europeans didn't care in those days. (It is hard to believe today, but once upon a time, the US led the world in environmental protection. That was before the christianists took over).

There were two possible alternatives - ban the phosphates/reduce them sharply or build sewage treatment facilities which could cope with them.

The US pretty much went for banning. Europe, many many many years later, finally woke up - about the time the suds were so thick, the dead fish not only floated on the water, but you could walk on it, it was so choked - and built sewage treatment plants which could cope with phosphates.

Yes, we use water softeners and, yes, generally speaking, we use longer cycles and hotter water. But our detergents are not castrated like here in the US.

Some of it is cultural, Europeans have a much lower tolerance for poor quality and inefficient machinery than Americans do. When we look at 'saving time', we weight the time spent *not* pre-rinsing and *not* pre-scrubbing even the dirtiest stuff together with the time *not* spent re-doing dishes which come out with baked on ick far far higher than the slightly longer time the machine runs unattended.

Now that US dishwashers can heat water and US detergents now use enzymes, many of the differences are disappearing. Still, a dishwasher detergent with 38% phosphates, enzymes and oxygen bleach will run rings around one with 8% phosphates or less - and that is what most US detergents are stuck with.

 

[mrboilwash]

Ralf, where do you put the Somat powder for storage ?
I would like to switch back to powders instead of those expensive Tabs, but I hate the idea to put the powder in Tupperware and use a tablespoon for dosing.