Getting a little uneasy here

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Cybrvanr

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
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As a religious, heterosexual male, I am finding myself in a minority in this forum. While in life, I find myself being able to get along well with homosexuals, I do not find that I am capable here as my values and religion are under constant attack in many of the threads.

I come here wanting to exchange information about collecting vintage appliances, and other mid-century goodies. I click on a new thread expecting to read a good thread on someone's neat find in a yard sale, or how someone has restored a hopless piece of history. Instead, I click on a link and end up reading things like putting a bible in a paper shredder. I find the values and religion that I have grown up with all my life, and have no intention of changing, attacked in these forums.

I have no problem with homosexuality. What happens in the bedroom is not any of my business. My religion however is, and from the looks of this forum, you cannot be homosexual, and be religious, or at least hold religious values at all.

I have tried to stay out of the religion / politics issues that have cropped up frequently around here, but when I click on a link that is rather ambiguous, and I expect to read something about appliances or something, and end up reading something that makes my hair stand on end.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I do NOT try to be politically correct in my life, and I try to avoid places and people that are in direct conflict with my values. For this reason, I don't feel comfortable in participating anymore in this forum. It was fun and enjoyable while it lasted, but I am just a bit too uneasy here
 
My religion however is, and from the looks of this forum, yo

I will not be unkind to anyone. However I am VERY insulted by the comments you've made.

I am a homosexual male, and I am religous. I majored in theology and church music in college, and I am very involved in my church, as organist, choir member, usher and elder. Being gay is one part of me, and its NOT THE MAJOR PART.
Your judgement of myself and others here is way out of line.

Where is Christ's love in your comments?
Sin is sin, its black or white, no shades of grey.
I'm gay yes, and Jesus died for that sin too.
 
Cyb---please don't leave....

I enjoy your contributions immensely and don't want to see anyone leave the forum!!!!
 
I am not going to argue your position, instead, I am going to thank you for speaking up and mentioning your position in the church and your religious values as a Christian....You are on "my side".

As I mentioned in the previous post, I don't have any problem with homosexuals whatsoever, but what I have a problem with is my religion being attacked. From which, from what I have been reading, is only coming from the homosexuals in this group. I have tried to avoid many of the threads here where people are blasting religion, and arguing about it, but I seem to somehow keep finding them. Yes, I do know there are hetersexuals out there too that are anti-religious, I am not sure if the heteros are speaking up here or not against Christianty. I have not analysed the threads very much because I try to avoid reading them. The common thread however seems to be that the homosexuals here are against Christianity because it is bighoted and racist. The way I see it the bigots and racists are the ones NOT accepting the Christians in this group! Since you seem to be breaking this stereotype of the christian-bashing gay, you can help me out here, and explain that this is NOT the case...I AGREE WITH YOU!

Like I said, I have not problem with the homosexuality, I have a problem with people attacking my religion as a Christian and values... homosexual or hetero!

Thank you for your reply!
 
likes and dont likes

If I put a spoonful full of spinach in my mouth and dont like it. I dont put anymore in my mouth. <p> If I click on a link and read it and dont like it. I close it and don't read it anymore.<p> It doesn't matter what anyone else says does or thinks about me or any other subject. I can have a conversation about it with them, or not. If someone wants to shred a bible let them. If you want to hold yours in high esteem go ahead. That is what America is all about.
 
I was thinking, maybe we can call a "truce" on this, and make another forum department for politics, religion, and other lifestyle issues. That way, we don't hafta participate in it if we don't want to. We can leave the "SUPER" forum here avaliable for the discussion of non-laundry appliances, detergents, automobiles and other fun appliance and technology related stuff.
 
Dude, follow the above advice...

I'm not about to argue religon with anyone. The above advice is good, follow it.
 
I guess I am a christian,however I do not wear it on my sleeve,and usually do not even mention it.Anymore I am not proud of it. The reason I left the church was the hateful ways of the church. The church cannot accept us for who we are,so I made the choice to leave. They also place blame on us for child abuse,which they tried to hide for decades. The church has been attacking us, as well as others for decades. We are now pushing back,and it is the backlash that bothers you,and it is not going to stop.
No oppressed minority group ever got their civil rights without a fight. That is just the way things really are. Check out a history book and you will see that.
If you were expecting to hear about the restoration of a vintage washer in the "Brokeback Mountain" thread you were looking in the wrong place. One of your "oppressed" christians posted several things in that thread that were very insulting to most of us. The christian faith will be better thought of after they keep their noses out of others personal lives (and bedrooms) and stop looking down at others,including other religions. Until they do,things will remain as they are.

BTW- for the record,I do pray before each meal,and before bedtime. He is our God also,and He loves us just as much as He love anyone else.

Rick
 
Times are a changing.......

I think that America is going through some growing pains right now. As in the sixties with equal rights, now there is another large growing group demanding equal rights and I think our time has come. <p> I think it is healthy to discuss our views and beleifs and opinions. Whether Robert will want to make another forum just for these subjects or leave them here in the super forum is up to him. I think discussions are bound to crop up in any forum. I think it might be dificult for Robert to try to police and move these to appropriate forums all the time. He does a great job running the sight, But also has a life away from this forum.
 
Let's keep a cool head everyone. Hi Steven, I'm really sorry to hear you want to leave the group just because of a few off topic posts. I hope you will reconsider, but the final decision is up to you of course. The problem here we are diverse community just like the real world, but the reach is greater than in any one persons local neighborhood or town, to live and see the real world means you have to have some tough skin. As a agnostic gay male I have no problem with Religion, I respect everyone’s right to their personal beliefs and would never, ever put anyone down for their beliefs. But I expect, no scratch "expect", I demand the same respect from the Religious community on this website and in my own life, or else and I mean or else. What happens in your Churches is not any of my business. BUT the second someone uses their religion as a crutch to insult or otherwise look down on our beautiful community that's where I'm going draw the line in the suds. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT NONSENSE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

Again Steven we all really want you to stay, as it is impossible for me to completely control the conversations here, that's why we decided to create the yellow Super Forum. Since in Imperial and Deluxe forums generally stay on topic, maybe it might be safer for you just to read those posts. I'm not that interested so much in modern washers, so I maybe skim the Deluxe forum one a week or so, that way I'm really only reading the posts that interest me.

Gee its been a rare tough week on the clubsite. Let's make the rest of the week better.

Would anyone like an Apex Wash-a-Matic?
 
Being gay is not a sin!

Nor is being straight.

It is in how an individual conducts his or her sexuality the issue of sin enters.

If a person does not respect his or her consenting adult partner, then we have sin...at least as I understand it.

Cybrvanr...I am sorry that you feel as though you have to leave, but remember, opinions are like sit-upons. We all have one, and they sometimes are not daisy fresh!

I sincerely wish you health, happiness, and prosperity.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
(Member in good standing of the board of Deacons at his church. And out there, too!)
 
This is my last response to this thread, because it really R

I have been in church all my life. Thats the way I was raised.

I attended not one but two Christian colleges.

I love the Lord and believe with all my heart that Jesus died for my sins.

The Church is run by men, sinful men, just as we all are sinners.

It's what is in your heart that matters most.

Sitting in church every weekend WILL NOT make you a good Christian any more than sitting in a garage all the time will make you a car.

How you live your life, how you treat others, thats what matters most, as well as what you believe. You can go thru the motions for show, but if you're not living what you're hearing in church, stay home.

Robert, thanks for speaking up.

I am done now.
 
mr parker

it david again here. you are playing with fire putting the word sin and homosexuality in the same sentence. if someone wants to follow a methodology it up to them. i say to certain religious folk, if you wanna play that game, dont get me involved.
 
Steven,

I'm sure I am one of the people you mean. It surprises me to read that you feel your values and religion are attacked here without mentioning that other people's values have been attacked too. Like mine.

You say you don't have a problem with homosexuality but in the meantime you also say My religion however is, and from the looks of this forum, you cannot be homosexual, and be religious, or at least hold religious values at all. So, actually to me it seems that you do have a problem! I think that is called restricted tolerance. I'd rather have people say that I am a faggot and they don't like me. That's more clear to me. Actually you are saying the same thing as Oldwasherguy in the other thread: it is not a sin to be gay, but the bible says to resist the homosexual urges,or burn in hell for all eternity. Just less clear. People saying that my lifestyle makes me deserve to burn in hell pretty much attack my values and my feelings. If I have anti-religious feelings they have probably been caused by that kind of intolerance. I hope you see there is another side to this.

Louis
 
I wish that the Imperial forum only had posts about pre-1985 washers, dryers and dishwashers. I wish that the Deluxe forum only had posts about post-1985 washers, dryers and dishwashers. I wish Deluxe only had posts about other kitchen and laundry appliances and the accoutrements that go along with them.

And I wish all this other noise would go away, or at least be covered up thickly with White Mountain frosting...
 
Maybe it's best if we don't discuss religion. It's a no-win situation, kids. The chances of anyone in this club changing my views on organized religion and the bible are slim-to-none. And I'm relatively sure anything I have to say won't sway anyone else's established beliefs. I'd hate to see a community like this one splinter because of religious differences. Frankly, there aren't a lot of other sites on the web which cater to those with an interest in appliances.

On the other hand, there are probably a lot of websites out there in which one can dive head-first into the topic of religious beliefs. Is it possible to declare a separation of church and appliances? :)
 
I've decided to share here an experience of mine from many, I think 20 years ago. I think it explains why I see things my way and why I get angry. I was an active member of the COC, the Dutch gay organisation. One of the things I did was answer the phone at consulting hours.

One night a woman called. She told me the story of her husband. Her husband came from a strict religious background. He knew he was gay and at some time he told his parents. His parents rejected him and told him he would burn in hell. They started putting pressure on him to get married and in the end he did. He didn't tell his wife about his gay feelings but kept struggling with them. After a few years of marriage he commited suicide and left a note for his wife in which he explained why he did it.

That night that woman called there was an item on TV about gays, especially about the conservative religious view on homosexuality. Being not very religious herself, she then understood what her husband must have gone through. How he felt there was no way out for him. That he felt so repressed that he rather committed suicide than to trust his wife and tell her about his feelings.

Since that night I get angry when the words 'gay' and 'hell' occur in one sentence. I think often about the long talk I had with that woman, how very hard she cried at that phone and also how mad she was that his family forced him into marriage and how that in the end made him kill himself.

I still get a lump in my throat when I tell this story.
 
Stream of consciousness. Please forgive!

Steven--

You said "As a religious, heterosexual male, I am finding myself in a minority in this forum."

Heterosexual? Yeah, you're probably in the minority here! Religious? Nope. I've noticed over the years that a vast majority of members are religious, or at least "spiritual."

And you know what? We love you. We really are a family here. Sometimes loud, sometimes obnoxious, sometimes downright mean.

Whaddya know? Just like a real family!

What we don't love is people who say "My religion says you're a bunch of sinners and you're going to hell" and won't entertain the notion that we can say "Well, my religion says I'm just fine, thank you."

Not that I'm implying you've ever done this. 'Cause I'm pretty sure you haven't.

Okay, this is going to sound like a 7-year-old saying "But he started it!", but look at the reality of the situation. In each case where religion entered the thread, it has started by someone saying "You homos are all going to hell."

Geez, and I thought we were discussing Brokeback Mountain.

So I think we should be allowed to respond to that.

Likewise, if someone makes a disparaging remark about your religion, you should be allowed to respond.

And boy howdy, sometimes those responses are gonna get heated. Well, of course they are, we're humans here.

Oh, we could make a rule that religion, politics, and sex shouldn't be discussed here, but then we'd miss out on some lively threads. What's the point in riding a roller coaster that's all flat?

Steve, no one wants you to leave, especially if we've made you feel uncomfortable. We try not to be like that. If you feel a thread is getting out of hand, you can just stop reading it. Or you can tell us you're getting uncomfortable, since we're not mind readers.

No guarantees that we'll shut up, though! See above remark about being humans.

Maybe we should all take Mom's sage advice and "Just be polite, dear."

veg
 
Amen Peter !!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this website was about vintage appliances ???? Or at least in this "SUPER" forum, where the subjects become broader and more astray but still have "vintage topics/roots" ? I didn't realize that religion, politics, ebay, bidding practices or one's sexual orientation were such a part of the origination of this website. If I don't like what someone else says or does, do I confront on the spot ? or do I "take it outside" ? if someone doesn't like what someone else said why not just email them directly to vent ? Or is it more about having yourself heard versus what the person actually said to provoke your own thoughts and feelings. Please keep in mind when reading this there is no malice, jusgement, or criticism intended or implied. Just mere questions for thought ? When someone reads email or a post we are all guilty of putting our own emotional inflection and tone on to what we read because we cannot see the person's face, facial expressions, or hear their tone of voice and demeanor in conjunction with their message.
 
Personally I don't think ones personal religious or moral "views" should be discussed here gay or straight or whatever. Everyone knows they always always always lead to these prestinkaments.
Where's the bloody cake!!!!!!
 
Haven't had time to bake it yet!

But this recipe sounds interesting:

Bible Cake
Yield: 1 multitude

(A) 1 cup of Judges 5:25, last clause
(B) 2 cups of Jeremiah 6:20
(C) 2 teaspoons of I Samuel 14:25, first clause
(D) 6 of Jeremiah 17:11
(E) 1/2 cup of Judges 4:19, first clause
(F) 4-1/2 cups of I Kings 4:22
(G) 2 teaspoons of Amos 4:5
(H) 1 cup of I Samuel 30:12, second phrase
(I) 1 cup of Nahum 3:12
(J) II Chronicles 9:9, 2nd phrase, to taste

Cream together A, B, and C. Beat D until frothy; add E to D, then combine with creamed mixture and beat thoroughly. Sift together the first part of F with G, then add the rest of F. Mix together with the first ingredients. Chop and flour H and I before adding. Add a generous amount of J to taste. Beat for 5 minutes.

Bake in a shallow pan at 375 degrees for 10 minutes.

veg
 
I dissagree with the original post entirely

However, there was once a time in the land of AW.org where you could log on, and see regular posts about 20+ year old machine restorations, and that was mainly what the site was about.

Recently its become a passthrough for ebay and general forum. The only specific post in recent times about a washer/dyer restore, has been Filterflo's Filtrator.

I realize that not everyone always has new machines, nor does everyone always have time to take pictures, but a lot of the repair info conversations seems to have moved off the forum and been replaced with general chat instead.

I disagree with the original comments in this topic, but would it be that bad, if the threads in the imperial and deluxe forums became purely about what they should be, and leave the innuendo and otherwise for the super forum.

I'm agnostic and gay, and have no issue with reading a bit of innuendo charged talk from time to time, I dont know that it has a place however in padding out the imperial and deluxe forums as it currently does.

Just my two cents worth.

Hugs

Nathan
 
Jeez wait a few day before stirring up the pot.

I believe this thread was a reaction to another (new) member's Bible-slinging (in a different thread) about topics relating to a movie he did not see.

I am not sure why Steven Cybrvanr saw "US" defending ourselves as improper. BUT I DEFNED HIS RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HE FEELS and I value his general input tremendously. He also VERY GRACIOUSLY was willing to call a truce/cease-fire. Let's try to do that.

...and please allow me, with all my huge faults and faux-pas of late, to quote scripture (can you inmagine?)

"Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall inherit the earth."

I need some pound-cake, who is serving?
 
Call this an attack if you wish, anyone, but I am confused. With all of the misery in the world that needs fixing, things like sickness, hunger, lack of basic necessities of life, how do so many of the religious in this world have so much time and energy to hate? It seems like if the spirit of the Creator of Heaven and Earth honestly fills you, you are not full of anger and are not actively searching for evil and pointing it out in others' lives. You also would feel that you should not use your religion like a club over other peoples' heads, to divide instead of unite, to stir up fake controversies like last December when the big deal to some Christians was the difference between a store clerk closing a sale with Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Actually if you do not know that someone is Christian, wishing them Happy Holidays is the kind thing to do. You become an instrument of peace. I do not understand why it is so easy to unite so many in hate and, yet, not in love. Why do some people in the Creator's service feel the need to lie about others to attract followers? Why are there so many fund-raising letters going out that raise fear and loathing of homosexuals in fine Christians, and encourage "any contribution you might be able to make to help me in my fight to keep America a Christian nation where homosexuals will not find a haven for their agenda?" What can same sex marriage do to destroy the institution of marriage? Of course there was that Baptist minister in Tulsa week before last who got busted for trying to solicit sex from an "undercover" (you should pardon the expression), police officer who was patroling a motel parking lot because the good citizens had complained about homosexual activity there. By the next day, he not only was no longer senior minister at his church, but had also resigned from the board of the Southern Baptist Convention and from another committee in the organization. Now, not only was he PROOF of the invalidity of their formula: accepting Christ as your Savior, would change any and everyone from being homosexual to being heterosexual, he was also a victim of the hate he had preached. The good people of Tulsa wanted this homosexual activity stopped so they called the police. Lighting did not have to strike him as he preached hate from his pulpit. He was trapped by his own undeniable attraction to the body of a nice-looking police officer. I believe that if a few more people who preach against homosexuals are shown to be hiding the same urges and subliminating that drive and self-hatred by preaching hatred to anyone who will listen, people might get the idea that those who are constantly using it a way to raise money and inflame others might just be covering up the same thing inside. I know that is optimistic, but you have to have hope.

I don't know if anyone here has read C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, but it seems that evil easily out-smarts people because people do not realize that when they spend so much time and energy searching for and pointing out evil, evil enters their minds for Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. I believe that's how it reads. If your treasure or treasury is an obsession with evil, it's in your life.

As far as not having a problem with homosexuality, a line from the third act of Hamlet comes to mind.
 
I hate it when this happens. There is nothing wrong with anyone here. I love our diversity. I also enjoy a good racy thread. One's sexual orientation is only a part of who they are, not all. I have a lot of gay friends and family, and the subject never comes up. Couples are couples, no matter what the gender make up is, and they should be respected as such.

I'm a straight christian (Episcopalian), and I have never been "offended" by the off hand remarks made here. Sometimes when I having a bad day and Veg and some others (I think of you now when I'm drinking my Tab) is having a good one, it makes my day.

Anyway, I've said my peace. I don't post often, but I enjoy all the threads.
 

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