Getting the bug.. Again...

[frigilux]

Hot water/modern front-loaders: My 2010 Frigidaire fills with hot water when selected, but so little water enters the machine that the metal tub and the clothes themselves cool the water once it starts tumbling.
Incoming hot water is 140 degrees at my house, but that drops to around 115 degrees after a few minutes of tumbling. This is why I won't have a machine without an internal water heater.

Frankly, most loads are cleaned well at 90-115 degrees---especially with a top-rated, enzyme-laden detergent---but I often use the Allergy option (heats to 125) or the Sanitize cycle (heats to 150) or the steam option (heats 1st rinse water and tumbles for 20 minutes creating "steam").

 

[jkbff]

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?53606 <-- My Samsung WF210ANW is using hot water now...

So... I can put this purchase on a hold for a minute... Cause there was a new development too.. We just because a Miele dealer for the Vacuum Store I'm working at...

That gives me access to their entire product line.... .....

That opens my option list up a bit.

My job is making me go broke..

 

[jkbff]

Became* lol . I just caught that..

Anywho.. Anyone have any opinions on the LG WM3997HWA?

I could see my self liking this.. .. If it works like the way you guys talk about other LG's working..

http://www.lg.com/us/washer-dryer-combos/lg-WM3997HWA-washer-dryer-combo

 

[henene4]

Washing: Yeah!!!
Drying: Nahh... I mean, it dries, but takes an eternity (like a half tub of normal laundry can take 2 or 3 hours), uses water (ensure you have a really cold cold water supply) and uses pretty high temperatures. But it gets the job done. So if you leave the house oftner, it can be quite usefull. You can pop a load in, set the cycle, come home from work and have a washed and dried load.
It has pros, but a few cons either...

 

[washman]

You're making this way too complicated

You've done enough research to last 3 lifetimes. You need to consider the real definition of value and understand that washing clothes is not rocket science.

Garments, for years now, are comprised of cotton/rayon/polyester/dacron/etc.

Second, perspiration, dirt, grime, dust, sand, grass stains, mud, oil and the like are the same was they have been for years. In other words they make garments dirty today, in 2014 just like they did in 1914.

Third, to remove #2 above, you need A. Water B. Enough to move the garments through it. C. Sufficient temperature. D. Correct amount of detergent.

Fourth, Sanitize, steam, etc are useless. There is no evidence, none whatsoever, that proves we need to start "sanitizing" our garments in the wash. No one has gotten ill from "unsanitary" laundry.

Fifth, a multitude of cycles based upon the logic of gee, 3 options are good, but 13 are even better, is foolhardy. And needlessly complicated.

Sixth, you need to consider how much time you want to invest in doing laundry. Sure the new machines use less water than the old school tanks, won't argue that. But do you really want to double or even triple your time involved in doing laundry?

Seventh, do you want to invest in additional "cleaners" to clean the friggin machine that is supposed to clean your laundry? Do you want to waste time, water, and money running a "cleaning" cycle on a FL or HE TL machine? How exactly is that "efficient"? No one seems to know.

Now here's our object lesson for today:

It's 1975. Shag carpets are in as are catalytic converters. All in the Family is #1 in the Nielsen ratings.
Happy homemaker takes laundry basket to washer. Sorts by color. Picks up a tshirt or sweatshirt. Fabric is 80% cotton 20% polyester. Garment instructions state, in part, machine wash warm, tumble dry low, warm iron if needed, use no chlorine bleach. Happy homemaker follows instructions and uses her 1970's era machine and laundry comes out clean.

Flash forward to 2014. Shag carpets are out and I have no clue who's #1 in the Nielsen ratings. Happy homemaker takes laundry basket to washer. Sorts by color. Picks up a tshirt or sweatshirt. Fabric is 80% cotton 20% polyester. Garment instructions state, in part, machine wash warm, tumble dry low, warm iron if needed, use no chlorine bleach. Happy homemaker follows instructions and uses her 1970's era machine and laundry comes out clean.

See any difference?

 

[jkbff]

The difference is that I don't know what I want to spend my money on to buy, but I do know I piss more than my Samsung set uses for water..

After falling for the prices that the set had cost, I don't want to get stuck with another set that is made just for companies to do volumes.

Also, I do not wish to move several pairs in and out of my living space. I want to find something, make sure it works half decent, does what it needs to without a bunch of politics at play and will give me a good ROI.

This samsung set that I have, until recently, barely used any water and did NOT use hot water. You put it on hot and barely get a 70 degree fahrenheit wash...

I think its complete BS that I can't just get a new machine that uses the hot water already provided by my hot water tank that is sitting not more than 3 feet from the machine. That makes no sense to have a machine heat its own water when the water has already been heated and I've already paid for that water to sit there and stay hot.

As for your analogy, the two scenarios are completely different.. 1975 I could have gotten most of my washing done in two hours... The dryer was the slowest part of the ratio... Now, the dryer finishes WAY before the washer does. We went from machines that took 30 minutes to wash a full load to damn near 2 hours to wash a full load.. But, that is of course if you have a new machine to each era.. In your second part you gave the example of using an older machine.. I don't have an older machine. I have a new BOL pos that I want to replace.

And you're right, I don't need 200 Wash cycle options.. I really only need to set the temp, the spin speed and the occasional extra rinse.. But when the machine and the EPA think they know how to clean my clothes better and don't allow me to set the options I want, then there is an issue... Especially when my clothes come out just as dirty as they went in.

Now... This brings us back to the latest machine I posted about... I could set the load, set the options, and when I came back from work, everything except unloading and folding is taken care of... If I am going to have to wait 3 hours to do a load from wash to dry with my current pair, why not have a machine that will automatically just do both functions and its ready when I am back to take care of it? Given that these machines seem so popular in Europe, would I be going wrong if I were to get something like this?

I mean at least with it being LG, its going to be a decent machine instead of some of these In business, out of business, In business again fly by night companies that release one off combo units, right?

It'll have a decent wash like their current lineup of washers, plus has a larger capacity than the other combo's they've released in the US?

The only thing is I've never used a condenser dryer.. I get that it functions like a dehumidifier, and with my kitchen flooding every time it rains, I understand exactly how much moisture a dehumidifier can move... Is there really a difference between a standard dryer and this dryer built in?

The upside is that its a standard wall plug, and I would only need hot/cold and a drain.. I could finally have my laundry in my kitchen and get my walk in closet back...

 

[henene4]

There are 3 things to mention!

1. One of the bigger downsides of a Combo is that the unit is in use and thus blocked. On a split set, you can wash while you are drying. Now, if you wash or dry, no matter, you can't do anything else. You can't run a 2nd load while #1 is drying. Keep in mind, with only 1 unit in stead of 2, you have to spend more time due to that fact.
2. Condensor dryers run usually hotter. You are in the 170 quite fast. And this Combo uses water as coolant, so about 2-4 gal more water usage in total, to guess.
3. You can't load it fully up to the top. As the 4.3 cuft now are used for wash and dry , you can only load it loosely to 3/4 at the maximum. Thus, you may need more loads.

 

[jkbff]

OK, so I still haven't purchased anything.. BUT....

One of our reps came into the store talking about some products we carry and I knows his company distributes SpeedQueen as well.

I was talking to him about some models etc and he said if I am going to buy speedqueen I should wait until the 2015 models make their debut... He said that even though there will be an automatic setting to appease the EPA, the ability to manually control everything is still there AND the new machines have anti-vibration in them now.. He said the machines won't walk across the floors anymore.

Anyone else heard anything on this?

 

[washer111]

"Fifth, a multitude of cycles based upon the logic of gee, 3 options are good, but 13 are even better, is foolhardy. And needlessly complicated."

Its still quite nice to be able to customise cycles though... Unforunately, SQ has gone down the path of "3 options" with both their FLs and TLs with the electronic controls. Now - someone in an office chair controls your agitation times, spin times as well as any soaking periods you allow. People buy SQ for the CONTROL they give over laundry... Not pointless automation. 

 

[Gr8DaneDad]

So tired of hearing about buying extra products to clean a FL. Follow the freaking instructions, use the correct amounts of detergent and softner if desired and you won't have a problem. My LG pair are now 15 years old and going strong, never have had any odor issues, most of my wash is cold water and I don't buy a 'boutique' detergent. Most, if not all FL issues are caused by too much soap combined and made worse by the use of too much softener. Americans have a problem with if a little works great then 10x will do fantastic and then they blame the machine. And if water isn't expensive or in short supply where you live, then enjoy your TL. But if you live where it's both expensive and in short supply an HE machine is an excellent choice. And no matter how many times I see that FL's don't clean, I just refer you back to the start of this post. There are way too many studies showing that they do, in fact, clean better and are less stressful on clothing.

 

[washer111]

Thank-you Gr8DaneDad (Very nice screen name too! We've got two lovely Danes)!

 

CORRECT usage habits stop the requirement for "Washer Cleaners." 

From what I understand, the "Affresh Cycle" added to many machines came as a result of the lawsuit filed against FL manufacturers - again as some sort of "cure" for the stupidity that abounds with FL machines (Too much/too little detergent/softener, wrong temperature, leaving the door shut, never clearing the pump-trap).

 

That said, I do like to run a 'maintenance wash' on both our Dishwasher and Miele FL machines every so often - just for security sake. The washer gets to run on a 'boil wash' too, which will remove much of the crud that builds up around the outer tub - if anything does!

 

[washer111]

Also:

 

"Steam" and "Sanitise" are the American versions of what people have been whining about for several years now... Everyone complains about "Dumbed Down Temperatures," well, those cycles BRING BACK hot washing, and allow a "profile wash" as they heat up. 

Whilst ATC is stupid and shouldn't exist (Which is does on FL machines) - these options at least allow the user to run hot - very hot washes for loads that require it (i.e. Bedding,  Towels, Uber-stained loads of whites etc). 

 

[jkbff]

I figured it'd be best to blow the dust off this thread instead of starting another one covering the same thing...

I posted a thread about Miele Little Giants... I didn't realize how little the little giants were. I am finding that the only thing piratical with that set is their foot print. My king quilt and shams barely fit in it, my king down alternative comfort will not fit in it... Those two items are what I was the most throughout the year because the cat lays on my bed.

Here we are 215 days from when I originally posted this and I haven't gotten closer to a choice. I should have ordered the maxima set that I wanted originally but I let a sales person's opinions get the better of me and decided to keep looking...

Yes, I know I have researched this to death but I don't want to regret what I buy. I've already been down that road and am miserable because of the set I bought thinking it'd be a good purchase. I hate doing laundry because I hate my set... I don't want to repeat this process when I get a new set.

I had a pair of neptunes lined up but that fell through, I've still got the speed queen pair sitting that my boss gave me but there are more problems with the washer than just the bearings... I don't have the time to invest in that project right now so that pair will sit in storage.. next to the hobart kitchenaid dishwashers I had to have...

I need something that is 'turnkey' and am just afraid of being disappointed... I read reviews and watch product videos for hours each night... I'm past the point of obsession...

I dig through this forum, I read why people like and don't like modern washers, I read the positive things about the machines then we get on to the negatives...

I realize the perfect machine doesn't exist.. If it did, it'd be a Miele Little Giant that would be the size of the Maxima 8000/8100.

Through this little journey I've learned a few things. People are still gun shy of Maytag (with good reason) because of what happened during their decline... LG Seems to make a good product but its not made to last... The most noted thing I've learned? Samsung is horrible at making appliances, that I should steer clear. I've learned that one first hand.

I dunno, maybe I buy into hype or something but I just know with all of the disappointment I've had this year, I don't want to have to deal with being disappointed in my appliances too... I want to come home and be able to start a load of wash... I don't want to have to finagle with this, compromise with that and plead with the Lord in heaven that my clothes will come out somewhat clean. I just want the things to work. Do what they are designed to do. I put a 125k mile warranty on my Lincoln MKX for that same reason. When I get in that car each morning, I expect that things will work when I press the start button. I understand I have regular maintenance and what not but other than that the thing should function the way it was designed to. Each and every morning.

Anyways, I guess I am just venting more than anything because the holidays always put me in a weird mindset... After being with my family all day Thursday, I went home and just wanted to do laundry... by the time I was able to coerce two loads out of the machine, I just wished I could have pushed it out of a window... I gave up and went to bed... I still don't have clean socks for the next week... (OH that brings me to something I've learned... This stupid machine likes to eat ankle socks............) :/

I'm tired of wasting money I bust my ass to earn... Planned obsolescence be damned!

With all of that being said...

Thoughts on the Maxima 8100 set vs something like the Kenmore 41072 or the LG WM8000HVA? Sears has a hell of a deal on the 41072 pair.

I hate the way my samsung set tumbles, I hate that I don't have hot water unless I manually pipe it in and I shouldn't have to rip the thing open and adjust things to get the unit to use water... Will any of those three solve my hate list about my samsung?

Why can't F&P make a front load machine for the American market so I can have a matching dryer that reverse-tumbles? Or here's a novel concept, why can't they make a direct drive dryer with an independent heat module so the dryer tumbles both directions AND has enough airflow to work...

The problem with all of this is the fact that I've gotten too used to commercial equipment.... Our dexters at the laundromat have reverse tumble and have independent drums and blowers... The dexter washers you choose your temps, the thing fills 3/4 with water and away it goes... Simple and quick... Everything comes out clean in 22 minutes... The machines in back have a controller made that allows one to stop the drum and timer as well as advance the timer so if cycle modifications are needed they are easily done.

The only problem is they are a free flow drain that requires a trough and are hard mount... Otherwise one would be sitting in my laundry room.

Anyways thanks for reading through my ramblings.

 

[ronhic]

Whilst they are particularly expensive and actually don't rate in our consumer magazine tests, I'd suggest that the only machines that will give you size, RTI and reliability in the US market are likely to be Speed Queen.

 

[askolover]

I also have NEVER used a washer cleaner in my Asko....hot water (140F) coming in plus a booster heater AND white clothes get Clorox ALL the time....add the fact that an Asko is all 100% stainless steel inside tub and outside tub, AND it does NOT have a bellows seal to trap dirt and detergent residue and I've never had any odor or mold issues either.

 

[jkbff]

I have a set of SpeedQueens. I just have to put them back together..

I was looking through our product catalogs for the laundromat and came across the Wascomat Crossover.. I'm sifting through some of the posts on here and planetlaundry.. Maybe that could be a contender? I mean if I do 4 loads a week, 52 weeks a year,it would be 72 years for the rated usage...

I wonder what all would fail in that time?

 

[ronhic]

May I tactfully suggest....

....getting off your butt and getting them back together, saving between $2000 and $5000.

 

[jkbff]

If it were that simple they would have been done already... They were stored in a barn, open... Mice have eaten through the boots and wiring...

So a bit more in-depth than just bearings I'm afraid.

Plus I'm not gaining much from the Miele units as far as capacity.

 

[jkbff]

I didn't intend my reply to be a snap back.. I was excited when those units came to town... I just wasn't expecting the problems I found when I started taking things apart..

I was looking through the Wascomat Crossover installation and operating manuals and found that default cycle selection, wash and rinse water levels, number of pre-washes and number of rinses can be programmed..

It's a rather simple machine, you load your poopoo undies, select the temperature and press start...

I'm seeing this machine run from 1400-1800.. We're going to inquire and see if maybe I can't get something like this...

If I'm not mistaken, the 3.5 cu.ft. is bigger than what the SpeedQueens would have and is considerably larger than the Mieles..

From what I have seen the unit has a 10 year warranty... With 15,000+ cycles this is the kind of reliability I'm looking for... (The Warranty I'm trying to pin down to a direct answer.)

But the search gets dumb for the fact that I keep looking for a reverse tumble dryer... GE makes a few models that have the tangle assist, electrolux has one but its in the cool down mode only, wascomat makes dryers that reverse but I don't need 40# capacity.. I looked at the GE, then I see the RightHeight washer/dryer pairs and its like why not get that set and be done? But I don't see any reviews or opinions offered on that line... I mean I see a lot of speculation but not a lot of pairs out in houses.. laundry.reviewed has the lower-end rightheight unit, but nothing on the higher-end units.

The question first on my mind is what is the transportation trail of the units? Where does the Crossover come from? The RightHeight units are from Appliance Park, right? The Miele's are from Germany and SpeedQueens are from Wisconsin? LG and Samsung are Chinese made, no?

The next question is what can I buy to avoid planned obsolescence? The crossover seems to be the best contender for the price. How long would the GE's last? The Maytags? LG's? The speedqueens and Mieles will last a long time, thats a given, but look at the cost.

The third question is about water usage in both level and temps. The Crossover is adjustable for level, the manual says the hot valve is open on hot fill, so its not dumbed down by epa guidelines. Speedqueen is the same for temps, right? What about the rest? I mean the idea of using an internal heater doesn't bother me but why pay to heat the water that was already heated to begin with? The biggest thing is I want the clothes to get wet... I want flushed clothes not moist.

I think the crossover might be the best decision for me for the washer, but I think one of the GE dryers with steam and detangle would be the best choice... I just have to get over the fact that I wouldn't have a matched set. It really is too bad the crossover dryer doesn't have reverse tumble.

Anyways I have emails sent out to my suppliers.. We will see what the week brings.[this post was last edited: 11/30/2014-18:02]

 

[jkbff]

I think part of the reason behind this current obsession or fixation is that I sell most makes and models of vacuums... I've learned that what review sites and manufacture advertising says generally is no where near the results the product will produce... Before I took that job I sold Xerox...

So in my mind, I see the product we have come in, I see the great quality of some products and the horrible quality of others.. I know what the products are supposed to be, but what they actually are are two different things...

You truly get what you pay for, but there is a point where paying too much isn't worth it, regardless of a persons income.