Since it has been very cold in Illinois, I have been draping the freshly washed sheets, pillow cases, underwear etc. over chairs and sofas to dry them. No need for the dryer and the moisture helps to put moisture back in the air that the furnace has taken out. See what you all think of the idea. Gary
Great way to humidify the house
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I just bought a Bionaire console humidifier the other day. I found it at the Goodwill for $15 in pristine condition. It's a fairly big one, has two large removable tanks that hold about 2 gals each, plus it has a filter for cleaning the air. Still it's not large enough to do this whole house and I'll find another one. The thrift stores are full of console humidifiers, at least around here they are so there's no need to go pay a fortune for a new one. We have hydronic heating so no forced air furnace to hook up a central unit otherwise I would.
Anyways, your idea about the wet towels etc. does well in a pinch. I've done that myself in hotel rooms etc when it was so dry.. soak the towels in the bath, wring em a little and place them around the room.
Anyways, your idea about the wet towels etc. does well in a pinch. I've done that myself in hotel rooms etc when it was so dry.. soak the towels in the bath, wring em a little and place them around the room.
Beware of clear glass shower doors!
Great idea!
One could also shower with the bathroom door open, and the exhaust fan *OFF*
Great idea!
One could also shower with the bathroom door open, and the exhaust fan *OFF*
A Frigidaire Filtrator dryer will humidify very nicely - and smell nice too!
hoover1060
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built in humidifier
I had one installed when I replaced my furnace, works great, but on the days when its below zero it makes the windows all steamed/iced up.
I like the way it works, just have to remember to turn it down some to prevent the ice on the windows.
I had one installed when I replaced my furnace, works great, but on the days when its below zero it makes the windows all steamed/iced up.
I like the way it works, just have to remember to turn it down some to prevent the ice on the windows.
lederstiefel1
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humidify the house...
Humdifying the house is a really stupid thing! It has become a fashion nowadays with bad results! What do you think will happen to the humidity? It will imediately settle into the coldest parts of a house in wintertime - the outer walls! As the temperature is much higher than outside, humidity will condense inside the wall and will reduce insulation effectiveness against the escape of the warmth from the inner house. The outer walls become not only less effective but also breeding places for all kind of fungus and their spores!
Not to forget that this "humidification" does not last very long, because as you open the windows fresh, colder and drier air will enter and warmer, more humid air will escape the room instead. When the fresh air has warmed up it is much drier than before as it was heated up. People believe that this air will dry out their tissues - but that is nonsense as the same happens when you go outside and aspirate the cold winter-air - it dryes the moment it is warmed up in the lungs, too! But no-one feels any discomfort in that...!?
It's the dust inside the houses that is swirled up again and again by central heatings which evokes the dry feeling on the tissues and that cannot be taken away by humidfying the air! Worst in that effect is the floor-heating but also convectors aren't really better! In the past people had single stoves in each room that needed a continues draft for the chimney (and open fire places were even more powerful with that) so the air was steadily renewed and as these had no convection ducts they warmed the room mostely by radiation warmth - open fire places do that at 100%! To boost the effectiveness of the fire and to save fuel tiled stoves were developped as they absorb 90% of the fire-energy inside their "bodies", store it inside them and give it away as a mild radiation warmth for over 12-24 hours. Later cast-iron stoves came into fashion as they were cheaper and less heavy but had a much stronger radiation and had no heat storage. Modern stoves have draft ducts instead, so the effect of much healthier radiation heating has died with the new generation of stoves, too!
Today we swirl and draft and revolve air faster and faster and more and more - and instead of getting better and healthier heating systems the opposite intention is reached!
So, better a drier but fresher air than a humid and spore laden one!
Ralf
Humdifying the house is a really stupid thing! It has become a fashion nowadays with bad results! What do you think will happen to the humidity? It will imediately settle into the coldest parts of a house in wintertime - the outer walls! As the temperature is much higher than outside, humidity will condense inside the wall and will reduce insulation effectiveness against the escape of the warmth from the inner house. The outer walls become not only less effective but also breeding places for all kind of fungus and their spores!
Not to forget that this "humidification" does not last very long, because as you open the windows fresh, colder and drier air will enter and warmer, more humid air will escape the room instead. When the fresh air has warmed up it is much drier than before as it was heated up. People believe that this air will dry out their tissues - but that is nonsense as the same happens when you go outside and aspirate the cold winter-air - it dryes the moment it is warmed up in the lungs, too! But no-one feels any discomfort in that...!?
It's the dust inside the houses that is swirled up again and again by central heatings which evokes the dry feeling on the tissues and that cannot be taken away by humidfying the air! Worst in that effect is the floor-heating but also convectors aren't really better! In the past people had single stoves in each room that needed a continues draft for the chimney (and open fire places were even more powerful with that) so the air was steadily renewed and as these had no convection ducts they warmed the room mostely by radiation warmth - open fire places do that at 100%! To boost the effectiveness of the fire and to save fuel tiled stoves were developped as they absorb 90% of the fire-energy inside their "bodies", store it inside them and give it away as a mild radiation warmth for over 12-24 hours. Later cast-iron stoves came into fashion as they were cheaper and less heavy but had a much stronger radiation and had no heat storage. Modern stoves have draft ducts instead, so the effect of much healthier radiation heating has died with the new generation of stoves, too!
Today we swirl and draft and revolve air faster and faster and more and more - and instead of getting better and healthier heating systems the opposite intention is reached!
So, better a drier but fresher air than a humid and spore laden one!
Ralf
I don't totally agree with you there Ralf. The key when humidifying your house is to find the correct moisture level balance so that any excess humidity does not condense onto the windows or in the cracks and crevices behind the walls. If you can keep the relative humidity in the house around 40 percent it's much more comfortable and you feel warmer. If you live in a high atlitude place like Denver, Calgary etc where the relative humidity of the outside air is almost non existent even in the summertime, nosebleeds and dry throats are very commonplace. Right now my house is less than 20% RH inside which is for all intents zero humidity while outside the temperature today is -20 C. but the relative humidity outside is 45%
58limited
Well-known member
Air does not dry in the lungs
Rather, air is moisted by the nasal passages as it is inhaled so that it will be moist when it reaches the lungs. Dry air in the lungs would be disasterous: The delicate alveoli where oxygen transfer occurs would dry out (and possibly bleed since the capillaries are integrated into them for gas exchange) and there would be no gas exchange. In dry climates, the body adjusts to low humidity to continue moistening inhaled air. People not from dry climates often experiance nose bleeds and sinus trouble when they first go to a dry climate. Conversely, people from dry climates sometimes have sinus drainage and runny noses until their bodies adjust and produce less moisture in the nasal passages.
Dr. David Webb
Rather, air is moisted by the nasal passages as it is inhaled so that it will be moist when it reaches the lungs. Dry air in the lungs would be disasterous: The delicate alveoli where oxygen transfer occurs would dry out (and possibly bleed since the capillaries are integrated into them for gas exchange) and there would be no gas exchange. In dry climates, the body adjusts to low humidity to continue moistening inhaled air. People not from dry climates often experiance nose bleeds and sinus trouble when they first go to a dry climate. Conversely, people from dry climates sometimes have sinus drainage and runny noses until their bodies adjust and produce less moisture in the nasal passages.
Dr. David Webb
YAY Homeostasis!
Perhaps all the more reason to make sure one is drinking plenty of liquids in dry climates.
You don't realize that you are losing moisture from your skin (perspiring), AND the water is needed to hydrate the air coming into the body.
Perhaps all the more reason to make sure one is drinking plenty of liquids in dry climates.
You don't realize that you are losing moisture from your skin (perspiring), AND the water is needed to hydrate the air coming into the body.
This one is for you MaytagMom, baby:
You know what the Greeks say....... (ducks and runs)
"Everything in moderation."
The humidifier doesn't have to be *full-on* or *full-off*. There IS a middle-of-the road!
BTW, IIRC North American "stick-built" wood-framed homes with vapour barriers are constructed VERY differently than concrete-and-cement-buildng Euro-homes. We are getting into concrete and cement in warmer climates and, of-course, larger and commerical buildings.
Indoors, humidity normally has to be added when heat is added, in that air's ability to hold mositure increases as it becomes warmer. Therefore relative humidy means percent saturation at a particlual temperature. Of course this is why clothing dryers use heated air. 100% realtive humidty at 140*F(60*C) holds much more water in suspension than 100% realtive humidity at 70*F (22*C). Sometimes normal activities in the home from bathing, laundry and cooking suffice in the amount of moisture contributed to the air. Cold-snaps usually require some more moisture even if you normally don't have to supplement it.
REASOANBLE addtional moisture is beeter for :
Your skin
your lungs
your furniture
your feeling warm (at lower temperatures)
Reducung static electricity. Static is NOT good when dealing with sensitive electronics including computers. (one good ZAP and your hard-drive is GONE!
You know what the Greeks say....... (ducks and runs)
"Everything in moderation."
The humidifier doesn't have to be *full-on* or *full-off*. There IS a middle-of-the road!
BTW, IIRC North American "stick-built" wood-framed homes with vapour barriers are constructed VERY differently than concrete-and-cement-buildng Euro-homes. We are getting into concrete and cement in warmer climates and, of-course, larger and commerical buildings.
Indoors, humidity normally has to be added when heat is added, in that air's ability to hold mositure increases as it becomes warmer. Therefore relative humidy means percent saturation at a particlual temperature. Of course this is why clothing dryers use heated air. 100% realtive humidty at 140*F(60*C) holds much more water in suspension than 100% realtive humidity at 70*F (22*C). Sometimes normal activities in the home from bathing, laundry and cooking suffice in the amount of moisture contributed to the air. Cold-snaps usually require some more moisture even if you normally don't have to supplement it.
REASOANBLE addtional moisture is beeter for :
Your skin
your lungs
your furniture
your feeling warm (at lower temperatures)
Reducung static electricity. Static is NOT good when dealing with sensitive electronics including computers. (one good ZAP and your hard-drive is GONE!
In my house, the problem is too much humidity, not too dry..
Here in the Bay Area, the main problem is not indoor air being too dry, but rather it's too humid. Even in winter, the humidity can be a problem. Our maritime environment, coupled with temps that are usually above freezing, mean that conditions are usually on the damp side.
Most indoor humidity comes from beneath the home, from the earth. It's an unlimited supply. Tighter construction - better sealed windows and doors, vapor barriers, etc., mean less and less of this earth-sourced humidity can escape to the outdoors. In serious cases the humidity condenses in cold attics and crawl spaces, actually creating rain in these spaces and rotting wood beams and rafters - not to mention creating ideal environments for toxic black fungus.
Part of the solution is ample ventilation of kitchen and bath spaces - the prime sources of non-earth sourced indoor humidity. Another solution is to install a vapor barrier over the earth under the home. Often plastic sheeting will do the trick, but some even recommend paving over the crawl space with concrete over the vapor barrier to make it a more permanent fix.
Obviously in other, colder winter climes, dry indoor air can be a problem. However, based on my experience, I would not try to introduce more moisture inside the home without first measuring the relative humidity to make sure it's fallen below about 45% first. If it's 50% or higher, there should be no need to add more moisture, and if it's above 60%, then one shoudl investigate ways to dehumidify the indoor environment.
For getting rid of dust raised by forced air central heating, check out the furnace filters from 3M (Filtrete) and use a good HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner.
Here in the Bay Area, the main problem is not indoor air being too dry, but rather it's too humid. Even in winter, the humidity can be a problem. Our maritime environment, coupled with temps that are usually above freezing, mean that conditions are usually on the damp side.
Most indoor humidity comes from beneath the home, from the earth. It's an unlimited supply. Tighter construction - better sealed windows and doors, vapor barriers, etc., mean less and less of this earth-sourced humidity can escape to the outdoors. In serious cases the humidity condenses in cold attics and crawl spaces, actually creating rain in these spaces and rotting wood beams and rafters - not to mention creating ideal environments for toxic black fungus.
Part of the solution is ample ventilation of kitchen and bath spaces - the prime sources of non-earth sourced indoor humidity. Another solution is to install a vapor barrier over the earth under the home. Often plastic sheeting will do the trick, but some even recommend paving over the crawl space with concrete over the vapor barrier to make it a more permanent fix.
Obviously in other, colder winter climes, dry indoor air can be a problem. However, based on my experience, I would not try to introduce more moisture inside the home without first measuring the relative humidity to make sure it's fallen below about 45% first. If it's 50% or higher, there should be no need to add more moisture, and if it's above 60%, then one shoudl investigate ways to dehumidify the indoor environment.
For getting rid of dust raised by forced air central heating, check out the furnace filters from 3M (Filtrete) and use a good HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner.
I like indoor climate control!
Whole house air-cleaner:
Electrostatic precipitator.
http://www.aprilaire.com/index.php?znfAction=ProductDetails&category=7&item=5000
Whole house air-cleaner:
Electrostatic precipitator.
http://www.aprilaire.com/index.php?znfAction=ProductDetails&category=7&item=5000
and back to humdifying..
sssssssssssssssss-STEAM!
http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consu...rs/Professionally-Installed/Steam/Default.htm
sssssssssssssssss-STEAM!
http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consu...rs/Professionally-Installed/Steam/Default.htm
Here's a pic of the Bionaire humidifier I got, such a deal and works like a charm. It goes thru gallons of water a day but even then it hasn't registered anything on my electronic humidistat in the room. I know the humidistat works because I take it outside and it registers fine.
"Draping freshly washed sheets,pillowcases,underwear,etc over sofas and chairs to dry them"Are you sure this is a good idea draping damp clothes over your upholstered furniture? I would think this would be a good way to breed mold and other nasty things inside the furniture.When those peices of furniture get damp or wet-it takes a very long time for them to dry.-several days!You still need to be careful HOW MUCH humidity is introduced into homes atmosphere and into what.I certainly wouldn't want the dampness put into the upholstered furniture!Do you put a sheet of plastic over the furniture before putting the damp clothes over it?I would think an indoor beasement clothesline would be better-or for small amounts of clothes-the bathroom shower curtain rod.
lederstiefel1
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- May 18, 2006
- Messages
- 484
58limited - Dr. David Webb
Maybe I was misunderstood...? First I have to add: I totally agree with Dr. Webb!
Also it can be that in the area where you, PETEK, are living, it might be helpful to have SOME humidity to the air added! But be careful! See further down!
To me it is much more important to keep in mind that a climate like yours up there is as humidity consuming as the one in a desert! Nobody wonders that people need to drink gallons of water when crossing a desert - strong cold needs the same behaviour!!! And always remember: the moment you leave the house, you have the same problem again! Air at about -20°C/45% contains only a drop of water per cubic meter; same as +20°C/5-10%!
The lungs always have 35°C/100% and however the air enters the respiratory tract it leaves the lungs with that 35°C/100% when exhaling! The difference in humidity and temperature between entering and escaping air the body has to add! This is the biggest caloric pump the human body has; bigger than sweat and draught can ever be together! Our lungs have a surface of about the size of half a football ground and the energy they consume from the body to warm it up and to evaporate humidity up to the saturation point, namely 100% relative humidity, is enormous. Animals that cannot sweat (dogs), pant to cool their bodies via the respiratory tract (tongue, nasal-tract, bonchi and the lungs) by utilising this evaporation-energy.
The problem with the walls is rather easy to understand...
Say the outside has -5°C. The rooms inside the house has +20°C. Depending on the insulation value the wall material has, you will find a temperature curve from inside surface to outside surface, in this example from +18°C inside to -3°C outside.
(Important: surface temperature!! - there's always a difference of about two degrees between the surface and the air which is called the physical saltation between two different materials with differing temperatures!)
Say further the inner air has 50% humidity at +20°C, it contains then about 4.5 grams water per cubic meter. Outside the air could have also 50% but then contains only something as 2 grams at the mentioned temperature of -5°C!! Inside the wall of the house you will find a point where the wall-material is about +10°C (the better the insulation the more far this point is found to the outside, the worse the nearer to the inside of the wall). At this point 4.5 grams water per cubic meter means no longer 50% but 100% as air with +10°C can only hold that amount of water maximumly. 100% means condensation INSIDE the wall, which you do not see!!! The nearer it comes to the outside of the wall the colder it becomes and humidity can even freeze INSIDE the outer layers of the wall (remember the surface has -3°C) This is a hugh strain to the material and also reduces the insulation capacity of the wall (wet materials do not insulate very well as everybody knows when you get drenched in a rain-shower!)
Thats the problem with buildings, heating systems, and air-conditioning....
Have I forgotten an aspect of the problem?? Let me know!
Ralf
Maybe I was misunderstood...? First I have to add: I totally agree with Dr. Webb!
Also it can be that in the area where you, PETEK, are living, it might be helpful to have SOME humidity to the air added! But be careful! See further down!
To me it is much more important to keep in mind that a climate like yours up there is as humidity consuming as the one in a desert! Nobody wonders that people need to drink gallons of water when crossing a desert - strong cold needs the same behaviour!!! And always remember: the moment you leave the house, you have the same problem again! Air at about -20°C/45% contains only a drop of water per cubic meter; same as +20°C/5-10%!
The lungs always have 35°C/100% and however the air enters the respiratory tract it leaves the lungs with that 35°C/100% when exhaling! The difference in humidity and temperature between entering and escaping air the body has to add! This is the biggest caloric pump the human body has; bigger than sweat and draught can ever be together! Our lungs have a surface of about the size of half a football ground and the energy they consume from the body to warm it up and to evaporate humidity up to the saturation point, namely 100% relative humidity, is enormous. Animals that cannot sweat (dogs), pant to cool their bodies via the respiratory tract (tongue, nasal-tract, bonchi and the lungs) by utilising this evaporation-energy.
The problem with the walls is rather easy to understand...
Say the outside has -5°C. The rooms inside the house has +20°C. Depending on the insulation value the wall material has, you will find a temperature curve from inside surface to outside surface, in this example from +18°C inside to -3°C outside.
(Important: surface temperature!! - there's always a difference of about two degrees between the surface and the air which is called the physical saltation between two different materials with differing temperatures!)
Say further the inner air has 50% humidity at +20°C, it contains then about 4.5 grams water per cubic meter. Outside the air could have also 50% but then contains only something as 2 grams at the mentioned temperature of -5°C!! Inside the wall of the house you will find a point where the wall-material is about +10°C (the better the insulation the more far this point is found to the outside, the worse the nearer to the inside of the wall). At this point 4.5 grams water per cubic meter means no longer 50% but 100% as air with +10°C can only hold that amount of water maximumly. 100% means condensation INSIDE the wall, which you do not see!!! The nearer it comes to the outside of the wall the colder it becomes and humidity can even freeze INSIDE the outer layers of the wall (remember the surface has -3°C) This is a hugh strain to the material and also reduces the insulation capacity of the wall (wet materials do not insulate very well as everybody knows when you get drenched in a rain-shower!)
Thats the problem with buildings, heating systems, and air-conditioning....
Have I forgotten an aspect of the problem?? Let me know!
Ralf
Hmmm, I thought there was supposed to be a vapour barrier just inside the wall (on the living space side) to prevent the migration of water (vapour).
Similary IIRC there should be provisions in the home's exterior surfaces to all moisture to escape, therby in-theory averting the above-desribed problems.
And yes... a very tightly sealed house normally has too much moisture and too much inddor pollution. In this case it needs mechanical assistance (as with a heat or energy recovery ventilator) to perform necessary air-changes.
Similary IIRC there should be provisions in the home's exterior surfaces to all moisture to escape, therby in-theory averting the above-desribed problems.
And yes... a very tightly sealed house normally has too much moisture and too much inddor pollution. In this case it needs mechanical assistance (as with a heat or energy recovery ventilator) to perform necessary air-changes.
I'm all cornfuzed LOL
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